[Thremp]

I'm curious of a resource like SBR for Euro/Azn books. It was brought up in another thread and I was wanted to know if any sites even delved into this or if someone would like to explain some of the nuances of these far off lands. I would be more than happy to trade information for this as well.

There are just so many soccer games. It is almost forcing me to look into this.

[durito]

Now that I'm finally set up down here I'm just starting to look into this as well. Please let me know if you find anything.

I suspect Santo might be a good person to ask.

[HeeeHAWWWW]

If you give some idea of what sports and stakes you like, I can help out a little with Euro books - would be surprised if there was a book of any size in Western Europe I don't have an account with :-)

Asian for us basically means 188bet/mansion/sbo, beyond that harder to say. Those three have just about the best asian handicap soccer lines around though, and take large stakes even on totally obscure crap. If you want to get 1k on 3rd division moldovan woman's mud wrestling, these are the places to look.

Also a lot of Aussie books to look at if you haven't already. These tend to be very heavily regulated, which is a nice safety net (eg portland and readbet both went out of business, but regulation meant there was tons of money sitting around to pay account holders). They also tend to accept large stakes too, particularly centrebet. Most don't have that good odds though - even canbet seem to have increased their juice recently, although hopefully that's just due to it being soccer offseason atm. Their baseball lines are 102% though


However, if you're looking for odds on American sports, the Carribean bookies just can't be beaten. As above canbet are fairly competitive for baseball, but next best you're looking at places like stan james, paddypower and ladbrokes at 103.5to 105%. Of those three, I'd look most closely at paddypower, because although their juice isn't too hot, they can get left behind when mlb odds move, leaving some nice value. Similarly, betfred.

[bigboydan]

Theres always Pinnacle, Canbet, IASBET, and maybe even Bet1128 who uses cloned lines from other asian books like SboBet. Another couple of options you might want to checkout are some of the Australian books. It's a shame that portlandbet closed up or else that would have been the book I would have advised you to take a look at them.

[durito]

BBD-

Why isn't 188bet rated?

[bigboydan]

BBD-

Why isn't 188bet rated?

Thats a question that would best asked/answered by the gentlemen in the office sir.

[kiwi]

Theres always Pinnacle, Canbet, IASBET

Nowadays forget Canbet/IASBET concerning soccer. They still copy odds from SBOBET but with much higher juice than they did before.

If you like to play odds from IBCBET you can also use 12Bet now which I would prefer compared to Bet1128.

[Thremp]

DDB,
TY.

Durito,
Will do.

HeHaw,
I was curious about smaller shops that offer more opinionated lines or even if I can find out which places just throw up cloned lines at a sizable overround, so I can avoid those as well.

[RogueJuror]

There are a couple of SBR-like groups servicing the asians, there are two very big (reputable) in chinese one run from Hong Kong and the other from the mainland. Another very popular one in Malaysia. Because the nature of the asians is the credit system there's almost no intervening with the sportsbook and most books almost never get action directly from the players, so in ethics they (books) are almost never responsible for a problem that may arise between agent/player.

What this watchdogs are very good at is black listing all the rogue agents and middlers, and the black books are very sacred to super-agents and sportsbooks. They hardly ever forgive. What this watchdogs don't do is list the good agents, because obviously it would be bad for the system.

Most of these rank nets are offline using the legacy way, and they are worth money.

[Thremp]

Rogue,

I have a feeling your post is v v good. But I don't understand most (if not all) the verbiage you use. Correct anything that I may be getting wrong:

1) Azns use mostly credit.
2) Watchdog sites blacklist agents/steam bettors.

What else am I missing?

[RogueJuror]

Yeah sorry about the lingo.

Yes asians use mostly credit, that from the bettor's side is almost identical like in the US. The sportsbooks are almost relegated to being just clearing houses for the super-agents. Super-agents are the one that wield most of the control of the books (this is one of two things that makes asians books dangerous). This super-agents almost never themselves book bets but have minor-agents and those minor-agents tend to have agents of their own. Each of the steps in the ladder share the liabilities to decrease risk (one of the reasons they can offer so low of a juice).

Now the law in the street, like everywhere, is whoever book your bet pays you. There is absolutely no relationship between a player and the sportsbook or the different layers in between, even if a bettor knows the final destination behind the action(ie sportsbook, super-agent). As such there can never be an entity exactly like SBR to vouch for the players and dispute with the sportsbook.

So these asians 'watchdogs' keep track of this agents, creating black books with list of agents that have unethical behavior like slow paying, runarounds, violence, no pays, all the stuff that is bad for business. Once you get in this black books is almost the end of your career because no agent will want to work with you much less the super-agents. So this is what asian watchdogs dedicate themselves to.

Now there is a couple of this watchdog websites (and more cropping up) online to aid the bettor but black books have always been, historically, an underground thing for obvious reasons. Most of these info, which are regional based, will only reach those who need the info (top-tier agents,super-agents, etc) and historically this been an effective way to protect the consumer. Basically decommissioning a rogue agent's ability to work.

[bigboydan]

If you like to play odds from IBCBET you can also use 12Bet now which I would prefer compared to Bet1128.

I'm still wondering what to make of 12Bet these days sir. I know there an spinoff of IBCbet and seem to be getting a huge push throughout the forum scene and all, however they are still a pretty new book.

[pico]

There are a couple of SBR-like groups servicing the asians, there are two very big (reputable) in chinese one run from Hong Kong and the other from the mainland. Another very popular one in Malaysia. Because the nature of the asians is the credit system there's almost no intervening with the sportsbook and most books almost never get action directly from the players, so in ethics they (books) are almost never responsible for a problem that may arise between agent/player.

What this watchdogs are very good at is black listing all the rogue agents and middlers, and the black books are very sacred to super-agents and sportsbooks. They hardly ever forgive. What this watchdogs don't do is list the good agents, because obviously it would be bad for the system.

Most of these rank nets are offline using the legacy way, and they are worth money.

can you PM the links to these sites. thanks.

[bigboydan]

Yeah sorry about the lingo.

Yes asians use mostly credit, that from the bettor's side is almost identical like in the US. The sportsbooks are almost relegated to being just clearing houses for the super-agents. Super-agents are the one that wield most of the control of the books (this is one of two things that makes asians books dangerous). This super-agents almost never themselves book bets but have minor-agents and those minor-agents tend to have agents of their own. Each of the steps in the ladder share the liabilities to decrease risk (one of the reasons they can offer so low of a juice).

Now the law in the street, like everywhere, is whoever book your bet pays you. There is absolutely no relationship between a player and the sportsbook or the different layers in between, even if a bettor knows the final destination behind the action(ie sportsbook, super-agent). As such there can never be an entity exactly like SBR to vouch for the players and dispute with the sportsbook.

So these asians 'watchdogs' keep track of this agents, creating black books with list of agents that have unethical behavior like slow paying, runarounds, violence, no pays, all the stuff that is bad for business. Once you get in this black books is almost the end of your career because no agent will want to work with you much less the super-agents. So this is what asian watchdogs dedicate themselves to.

Now there is a couple of this watchdog websites (and more cropping up) online to aid the bettor but black books have always been, historically, an underground thing for obvious reasons. Most of these info, which are regional based, will only reach those who need the info (top-tier agents,super-agents, etc) and historically this been an effective way to protect the consumer. Basically decommissioning a rogue agent's ability to work.

Very nice summery sir.

[juzgotlucky]

Do you think 188bet will begin a EURO books too? Since they [obtained official acknowledgement from the Isle of Man Government according to their email and as I check on website their contact number are from asia and uk???!!!!

[RogueJuror]

A seperate book with seperate trading? I don't think so. A different label? There's a chance, but I don't think so either. But they are looking into Europe heavily, setting a marketing post and maybe a couple more licenses.

[jjgold]

Who the hell is this Rogue guy?? Impressive posting

I actually did not know much about any of this Asia stuff

[max_asdf]

can you pm me the hong kong based sports book too?

im interested..

[RogueJuror]

JJ i'm just a soldier that's been down in the trenches


things are gonna get better with mySBR

[jjgold]

I would think betting on credit in Asia is literally deadly and if you do not pay your in serious trouble with your health.

[pico]

bctong.net has bet365 as A+ book...wtf

they limit players pretty quick, why the hell is it A+?

same goes for vcbet88...A+...never heard of that book.

[kiwi]

Don't take these asian 'sbr' lists too serious, they are not what the 'real' sbr is for US (and partly for european) books.

[juzgotlucky]

bctong.net has bet365 as A+ book...wtf

they limit players pretty quick, why the hell is it A+?

same goes for vcbet88...A+...never heard of that book.

haven't heard of them too!!!

[bigboydan]

same goes for vcbet88...A+...never heard of that book.

They are a VictorChandler book that focuses on the Asian market. If memory serves me correctly they opened up in late 2006 or early 2007.

[juzgotlucky]

oh thanks for the info let me check it up too!

[Trinidad]

Does anyone know the website for the Victor Chandler asian book VCbet88? I keep getting dead links from a search engine?

[bigboydan]

Does anyone know the website for the Victor Chandler asian book VCbet88? I keep getting dead links from a search engine?

Try this one sir:

http://www.vcbet88.cn/

[RogueJuror]

That's an old dead one BBD. Try...

www.vc818.com
www.88vcb.com

[Kaoru]

A seperate book with seperate trading? I don't think so. A different label? There's a chance, but I don't think so either. But they are looking into Europe heavily, setting a marketing post and maybe a couple more licenses.

I believe Mansion is doing this, even their IT department is separated, they have an European dev Team and an Asian dev Team. Their Asian facing brand is Mansion88, they offer both credit betting and deposit betting but of course they don't advertise publicly *88 offers credit

[juzgotlucky]

I believe Mansion is doing this, even their IT department is separated, they have an European dev Team and an Asian dev Team. Their Asian facing brand is Mansion88, they offer both credit betting and deposit betting but of course they don't advertise publicly *88 offers credit

wat do you think the reason why theres no advertisement on this?!

[wastedbum]

wat do you think the reason why theres no advertisement on this?!

and it seems like they're contrating in europe?

[Kaoru]

wat do you think the reason why theres no advertisement on this?!

Not sure, only their management know the real reason. I don't particularly rate Mansion as a strong Asian book. Putra Sampoerna jump into the sports betting business with almost no understanding and just pinched experienced staff from competitors. There was a mass exodus from 188Bet to Mansion 2+ years ago (both sites was almost identical then), just last year they hired an experienced group from singapore to handle early market and some live games.

[wastedbum]

Not sure, only their management know the real reason. I don't particularly rate Mansion as a strong Asian book. Putra Sampoerna jump into the sports betting business with almost no understanding and just pinched experienced staff from competitors. There was a mass exodus from 188Bet to Mansion 2+ years ago (both sites was almost identical then), just last year they hired an experienced group from singapore to handle early market and some live games.

are mansion & 188bet owned by one company?

[bigboydan]

are mansion & 188bet owned by one company?

Mansion88 (Not Rated) is owned by same owners as Mansion (SBR Rated B-).

[Kaoru]

are mansion & 188bet owned by one company?

Mansion and Mansion88 are both under Sampoerna family, while 188Bet is managed by a group of investors (Singbet and SB1888 are the biggest shareholders and both are credit betting sites)