[bigboydan]

10Bet (SBR rating B-) cancels two soccer wagers citing "typing mistake"

The player has followed the line closely and believes the book cancels wagers when the line has moved in the player's favor. Competing bookmakers have stated that the price was in range of the betting market and that their line was similar at the time of the wager. 10Bet has not responded to the player's request to discuss the matter.

Nordicbet: Hi,I can confirm that **** is correct. It is also correct that Nordicbet had several odds changes on those matches, active risk management, but no misprint!
Best Regards,
Nordic Gaming Group Ltd.

Player to 10Bet: This was no typing mistake, your cancellation is a blantant violation of your own rules.

The Vadmyra match:
Your odds opened at 2.89 and was later slashed to 2.57, which I played. You currently offer 2.13. Nordicbet opened at 3.10, then slashed to 2.85, 2.65 and now offer 2.15. Bwin opened at 2.85 then slashed to 2.55 and now offer 2.10. There has been market changes on the match - but misprint? No way.

The Lyngbø match:
Your odds opened at 3.88 and was later slashed to 3.02 which I played. You currently offer 2.34. Nordicbet opened at 4.40 then slashed to 3.80, 3.45, 3.15 and now offer 2.35 Bwin opened at 3.80 then slashed to 3,00 and currently offer 2.30.
Again - obvious that it's just ***** that this was a typing mistake. Please respond to this message and re-activate my bets before the matches start.

SBR has asked 10Bet's General Manager to review the player's complaint and provide evidence that there was indeed an obvious error. A different 10bet user submitted a similar complaint two months earlier. Management defended 10bet's decision to cancel that wager prior to the match, saying that the line was temporarily moved the wrong way, opposite the changing market. The player and the book dispute whether the player bet the line in a window of a 30 seconds before the erroneous odds change was reversed.

[Justin7]

This sounds like an oddsmaker falling asleep at the wheel and ignoring line moves. They need to provide compelling proof of this "typing mistake" (as well as a prompt resolution of the mistake).

[moonbeam]

No reason to be alarmed. This is the normal business of 10bet.
They do this 100 times a day

[noyb]

Originally Posted by moonbeam

No reason to be alarmed. This is the normal business of 10bet.
They do this 100 times a day

very true. there's even a very recent topic here on this forum about this behaviour from 10bet. everybody betting there knows it, and has given up complaining about it a long time ago. the guy who filed this compaint is apparantly new there.

[vanman]

simple advise STAY AWAY.

[noyb]

Originally Posted by vanman

simple advise STAY AWAY.

well that's a bit too simple for me. just don't bet soft lines there.
i'm sure this guy wasn't betting on Norwegian Third Division soccer, because he knows anything about the teams he was betting on.

[moonbeam]

stay away is a simple but correct advice.

I like SBR but sometimes I guess SBR haven´t any idea... specifically on european books

The B- rating for 10bet perhaps was ok 2 years ago.

Nowadays 10bet are nothing else than a scam book.

[Bill Dozer]

Originally Posted by moonbeam

stay away is a simple but correct advice.

I like SBR but sometimes I guess SBR haven´t any idea... specifically on european books

The B- rating for 10bet perhaps was ok 2 years ago.

Nowadays 10bet are nothing else than a scam book.

European books are a different animal. When 10Bet was taking US players we had a lot of feedback. After restricting countries we get much less but still a good sample. Euro players, who are lucky enough to have Betfair and Pinnacle, are fairly hard on recreational sportsbooks. Many people playing soccer think a book that boots winner should be rated F. These same books do a lot of tiny free bet stuff that and you have to wonder if it's worth all the trouble.

We received 3 10bet complaints of cancellations recently. The first resulted in 10Bet paying a guy for a $700 win even though his funds weren’t risked...an acceptable resolution. The 2nd was questionable and 10Bet probably should have honored it. They claimed they moved the line the wrong way in seconds and the player jumped on it and they moved it back. This is the third. 10Bet had plenty of time to address the player's requests to reinstate before the match. The complaint description is not indicative of a B- shop.

[noyb]

Originally Posted by moonbeam

stay away is a simple but correct advice.

I like SBR but sometimes I guess SBR haven´t any idea... specifically on european books

The B- rating for 10bet perhaps was ok 2 years ago.

Nowadays 10bet are nothing else than a scam book.

you should definitely stay away if you're a certain kind of player making certain kinds of plays there. to me a scam book is a book that does not pay.

[bigboydan]

Originally Posted by noyb

you should definitely stay away if you're a certain kind of player making certain kinds of plays there.

90-120 delays and those bonus rollover requirements should turn most of those types of players away, however it doesn't.

[moonbeam]

Originally Posted by noyb

you should definitely stay away if you're a certain kind of player making certain kinds of plays there. to me a scam book is a book that does not pay.

Noyb, I´m sure you know as well as I do why to stay away from this book.

Not enough this book voids hundreds of bets any day, this book also charge you a 8% commission of your winnings.

Perhaps it´s not a scam book yet (because they pay you something) but it´s VERY near to a scam book, and I guess 10bet is the next betroyal

[moonbeam]

Originally Posted by Bill Dozer

Many people playing soccer think a book that boots winner should be rated F.

Thats not the reason Bill. Think of betroyal.

[noyb]

i made a long post in the previous topic explaining why i think 10bet can be a moderately useful book to have, as long as you know how to deal with them. their voiding-happy attitude, as well as calling everything a "typing error" (total BS) is a shame to the industry, but i find good odds there and the stuff i bet (through their traders that is) they don't void.

8% fee? i'm sure you have first hand experience of something fishy happening since you mention it, but I was never charged a fee for anything whatsoever and have been with them a while.

[Bill Dozer]

Let's see what their move is here.

[Ila]

Originally Posted by moonbeam

No reason to be alarmed. This is the normal business of 10bet.
They do this 100 times a day

Although this may be a little bit exaggerated, I generally agree. A couple of weeks ago I had a similar situation.

They forgot or were not quick enough to change the line after it moved in the asian markets and I placed a bet. Seconds after this I found my bet cancelled.

As I don't like this kind of behaviour I withdrew all my balance straightaway.

I can't stop being amazed by their SBR rating. The only positive thing you can say about them is that they DO pay. But the number of cheats they are using on day to day basis is enormous. The Polish message boards are full of it. Cancelling wagers, placing them instead of players, changing betting history without players knowing, enormous arbitrary fees, stealing money from people's accounts with several sometimes very elaborate methods.

In the light of this I even suspect that it was 10bet who stole the money from its clients NETeller accounts about 2 years ago claiming that they "got hacked". Many people share my opinion on this but there are no proofs.

I do play in more than 70 books and I haven't come accross one that would go to such lenghts to steal people's money. D is the highest rating I would give them - and only for paying. For the rest F+ would be too much.

[Bill Dozer]

Ila,
Do you have a wager ID for that Asian handicap bet?

[Ila]

Originally Posted by Bill Dozer

Ila,
Do you have a wager ID for that Asian handicap bet?

I happen to have it.

7114271

But as I wrote it was placed in February. So it will be difficult to prove anything.

[Bill Dozer]

Originally Posted by Ila

I happen to have it.

7114271

But as I wrote it was placed in February. So it will be difficult to prove anything.

Thanks. Any chance there was an email conversation about it?

[Ila]

Originally Posted by Bill Dozer

Thanks. Any chance there was an email conversation about it?

Nope. I didn't think it worthwhile because:

a) never heard of a dispute between a player and this book ending in player's favour

b) it was not a large bet, the stake was only 53 euros to win 58 euros

I just ceased betting with 10bet and swept my account clean.

[Bill Dozer]

ok Thanks. I talked to their GM today. He said he hasn't gotten the email about this main case but is looking into it now. They will have to justify actions or make it right in order to maintain a B-.

[tacomax]

Don't be so hard on the book here - everyone makes mistakes.

On the assumption that the book thinks it's OK to cancel bets due to typing mistakes, people should request their losing bets are canceled when they bet on the wrong team caused by a typing mistake.

[Ila]

Originally Posted by noyb

i made a long post in the previous topic explaining why i think 10bet can be a moderately useful book to have, as long as you know how to deal with them. their voiding-happy attitude, as well as calling everything a "typing error" (total BS) is a shame to the industry, but i find good odds there and the stuff i bet (through their traders that is) they don't void.

I used to think along these lines too.

After all my exact stats with them are 373 bets and only 2 made void on grounds of a "typing error".

But after some thought I concluded that additional risks associated with playing in 10bet matter more than potential benefits and decided not to push my luck anymore.

You may think you know how to handle them. But this book is simply unpredictable. I've gone through a lot of feedback on Polish message boards most of which was negative. And it wasn't voiding bets that alarmed me the most. Their creativity in the "hacking" department did. There was this thing with money disappearing from NETeller accounts of 10bet customers a couple of years ago. But more recently a guy was cheated out of a couple of thousand $ after most probably a 10bet staff member made fake wagers in his account and then claimed the account was "hacked". There was some pretty strong evidence in this case that it could not be a third party doing.

[bigboydan]

10Bet (SBR C) unwilling to compensate player for canceled wagers

10Bet management states that because the player's wagers were canceled before the game, and he had time to rebet them, the decision is within the rights of the book's terms of service. 10Bet believes the player was working with other books to manipulate the market for the low volume soccer league. 10Bet concedes that the matter was not due to a "typing mistake." 10Bet has been lowered from B- to C after the second complaint of canceling pending wagers on odds that were not "obvious or gross errors." SBR suggested 10Bet pay the player for equity lost on the canceled wagers compared with less advantageous odds available when his wagers were canceled. 10Bet will remain under review.

[noyb]

Originally Posted by Ila

I used to think along these lines too.

After all my exact stats with them are 373 bets and only 2 made void on grounds of a "typing error".

But after some thought I concluded that additional risks associated with playing in 10bet matter more than potential benefits and decided not to push my luck anymore.

You may think you know how to handle them. But this book is simply unpredictable. I've gone through a lot of feedback on Polish message boards most of which was negative. And it wasn't voiding bets that alarmed me the most. Their creativity in the "hacking" department did. There was this thing with money disappearing from NETeller accounts of 10bet customers a couple of years ago. But more recently a guy was cheated out of a couple of thousand $ after most probably a 10bet staff member made fake wagers in his account and then claimed the account was "hacked". There was some pretty strong evidence in this case that it could not be a third party doing.

good post, i did read up on the guy that lost a big amount while his account was supposedly "hacked", would be interesting if he would let sbr take this story to 10bet. anyway, thanks fir the heads up.

[tomcowley]

This is really as bad as outright theft, and it's pretty clear it's a systematic practice and not an isolated case where market manipulation is suspected (see the hawks/celts thread post in the other front page thread). Instead of stealing the funds after the game, they steal the +EV from line moves before the game. Whenever you bet there, you're getting freerolled- if the line moves way in your favor, your bet gets voided. If it moves against you, you're stuck with it. This is D- or F+ behavior. C isn't even close to far enough down.

[Bill Dozer]

That's a good illustration of why the practice is serious and fruadulent. If 10bet did fit that description, or does in the future, they would received a much lower rating. It is a form of theft.

I think 10bet sees themselves as a recreational book with a lot of betting options on small markets. It appears they are attractive with all the variety but bite off more than they can chew and can't find reliable ways to manage these markets. They have no acceptable reason for canceling these parlays (even worse is the bad-line-bettor's account is still open). But, I don't think they are canceling every bet that's in the player's favor.

We get a good sample of 10Bet feedback and will watch for any new trends.

[noyb]

Originally Posted by tomcowley

Whenever you bet there, you're getting freerolled- if the line moves way in your favor, your bet gets voided.

this is a bit of an overexageration imo, since they, at least from what i know, don't actually wait for any line move but cancel right away if there already has been a move. it seems like when they receive a bet, they check it against the market price, and if that market price just made a huge move before, and they were the last one hanging on to the old line, they cancel it right away. they don't sit on it, wait for future moves and then decide to void / not to void or anything

it doesn't excuse it ofcourse, but it's a bit of a clarification.