[Chingster23]

I have started gambling on sports this year and I m learning from some very expensive mistakes.

My recent howler was with respect to Sports Arbitrage. I found my way onto Odds Explorer "Sure Bets", I already had sportsbook accounts at 4 different accounts but I could never find a bet with the right odds at my particular sportsbooks.

One sportsbook that was always paired with my own was Europlay so I joined and deposited €400. I placed a series of bets for the "sure bet" and Europlay refused my bet, as a result I lost a lot of my money. I then did some research and found this site and the sportsbook review section which showed Europlay to be a D-. I have tried repeatedly to withdraw my money, they haven't responded to my e-mails and I cannot contact them by phone.

Please no-one post back telling me I am an idiot for not researching them first I now realise my mistake!! I have filled in a complaint form on this site but can anybody tell me how I can get my money back from them???? Also it seems strange that Odds Explorer advertising bets like this with sportsbooks who have a history of not taking bets, this is leading me to think that Odds Explorer is not very reputable either. Help!! Surely they cannot just steal peoples money?

[GiantsChampions]

I am a newbie too! Same problem here

[bigboydan]

First off, Welcome to the SBR forum gentlemen

This is now the 3rd complaint I know of since my tenure here at the SBR. Europlay is has a history of slow pays and not answering Emails, so I can't say I'm surprised by what you guys are saying.


Chingster23, Please give us a little bit of time in order to inquire on your behalf to see if we can possibly assistance you with your current issue.

GiantsChampions, please feel free to fill out this complaint form with all your details and one of us will inquire to them on your behalf.

[Bill Dozer]

Often the lower quality books have the juciest numbers. An arb/surebets site isn't going to do very well with good books who are on top of the line moves.

We have a bunch of payout complaints from Europlay this month. Lakerfan (Josh) is working on those. He will be able to update us here shortly.

[JoshW]

Hello Chingster 23,

I have six complaints from Europlay with four going back to summer 2007. Two complints in fall of 2007. I contact Europlay on all of them, and they never responded. In four cases I followed up via email and their online form and no response. Calls to them were respond to with all players will be paid and one time they said that phone was only for deposits.

One player got paid, the rest of the players last I heard from them had not been paid.

Email me your details, and I will contact them, but with this book it doesn't look good.

josh@sportsbookreview.com

[Chingster23]

So lets say they don't give the money back then isn't this in effect stealing and therefore against the law?

Do I need to take legal advice?

[Santo]

How did you deposit?

Legal advice would almost certainly be an exercise in futility.

[Chingster23]

I made two separate deposits with my credit card. To be fair the credit card company are pursuing it for me.

[Santo]

Credit card chargeback is likely your best recourse in this case

[THE HITMAN]

uh oh

[geeboy30]

I am getting a little worried

Placed 500 euros in a europlay acount yesterdat. Tried to get on at evens and the bet was cancelled. Decided to have the bet at the reduced odds anyway.
The bet has now won
It says to get a pay out I need to email my passport and credit card details
When I try to email it says all email accounts are permenantly closed
When I try to call it says there is a fault
Will I ever see my money again?

Graham

[Santo]

As above, if credit card do a chargeback.

[Chingster23]

Update

I have contacted the European Consumer people and they advised me to send a recorded delivery letter demanding payment in 14 days. I have done and guess what, they dont exist at the address!!

The only course of action left is to take on the credit card company.

Contact the following link for guidance ecc@tsi.org.uk

[Imonamission]

Hi everyone,

Sorry to hear people have still lost money to Europlay. They've been no-paying me since Autumn 2006 and I thought they were more or less gone by now. I'm slightly suprised to hear that they are still actively luring in deposits.

Anyway I have some info that might help you. Here are their new phone and fax numbers that seem to work at least sometimes:

Phone: +43 (0) 316 405306
Fax: +43 (0) 316 40530615

I have sent these numbers also to SBR some time ago. If it is inappropriate to publish them here I trust the moderators can delete them with no harm done.

I found these numbers from an email where they informed me about a cancelled bet. They are not the same dead numbers that appear on their website and a few times out of numerous tries I have actually managed to get to speak to someone who works for Europlay. The guy who answered confirmed that the phone number above is their new office number. There also seems to be a working fax machine at the fax number.

I don't know their current address but it might be possible to find that out by checking these numbers from a local directory inquiry sercive.

[noyb]

altough it's not listed on their site, since these guys operate from austria they must have a license and be regulated there.

i do vaguely remember the austrian gambling board (whatever they are officially called) did respond in a case with another austrian bookmaker gone bad. has anyone every tried contacting them, as this would seem to me to be a viable (but problably lengthy) way to go??

[bigboydan]

Noyb,

Do you remember which Austrian bookmaker it was. If so I for one would be interested in that outcome, that is if I could find what you read originally on that particular case.

[noyb]

i did a search and couldn't come up with anything unfortunately. i could have sworn the case involved austrian-bookmaker jokerbets, that disappeared for a while (and actually came back later), but the thread must have been more than one, maybe even two years ago, and i'm not even sure on which forum it was.
i did actually recall there's not really a gambling board in austria, but regulation is done on a regional level by the government. so even if i would have found the thread, chances are it concerned a different region alltogether. europlay does mention at its website it is legally based in graz, which i think is in the district of styria (but i'm not austrian, so i could be wrong). the district does seem to have some sort of a website http://www.verwaltung.steiermark.at/, but no mention of gambling regulation there in either english or german. anyone wishing to pursue it could use it as a starting point though, altough i'm sure it would help if you would speak german.

[geeboy30]

It is looking worse and worse

Dear Mr. Harrison,

Re: Europlay International - Scam bookmaker

We refer to your e-mail of 17 April 2008 and fear that you have fallen victim to a website (http://www.europlay.at) which has been set up with fraudulent intention. We have made our own investigations and ascertained the following facts:

A similar website http://www.europlay2000.net already exists and is run by the Austrian company Unternehmensgruppe Lindenau using the trade name Europlay Sportwettcafes. They are located at Andritzer Reichsstrasse 56, A-8045 Graz, Tel. 0043 316 697869, Fax: 0043 316 697869-12, email: office@europlay2000.net, and are not connected in any way with Europlay International.

With regard to Europlay International in Austria we could not trace a company by this name. The telephone number 0043 3182 62230 is not a Graz telephone number. At the address Münzgrabenstrasse 86, A-8010 Graz, used to be a company by the name of BT-Montage Schlosserei, Maschinen- u. Rohrleitungsbau GmbH which has moved to Salzburg and is now insolvent. What business is currently located at this address, we do not know.

We have passed your e-mail to the regional Chamber of Commerce in Graz.

We are sorry that we are unable to give you a more favourable reply.

Yours sincerely,
THE COMMERCIAL COUNSELLOR
AND TRADE COMMISSIONER
Gerhard K. Mueller

I have passed the new telephone numbers listed above to the Austrian Commission but I am not holding my breath

[gurke]

Originally Posted by noyb

i did a search and couldn't come up with anything unfortunately. i could have sworn the case involved austrian-bookmaker jokerbets, that disappeared for a while (and actually came back later), but the thread must have been more than one, maybe even two years ago, and i'm not even sure on which forum it was.
i did actually recall there's not really a gambling board in austria, but regulation is done on a regional level by the government. so even if i would have found the thread, chances are it concerned a different region alltogether. europlay does mention at its website it is legally based in graz, which i think is in the district of styria (but i'm not austrian, so i could be wrong). the district does seem to have some sort of a website http://www.verwaltung.steiermark.at/, but no mention of gambling regulation there in either english or german. anyone wishing to pursue it could use it as a starting point though, altough i'm sure it would help if you would speak german.

Hi !
Perhaps you mean the thing with bets4all in the wettforum.info Forum !!!

BYE

[Dips]

I sitting here feeling really gutted because I know I should have read the reviews first! But I am in the same position, I deposited £400 for a sure bet and the bet won with Europlay and not my normal bookie...So I have over 1k sitting in my account, I have requested payouts for the last 3 weeks everyday, and sent in my details as well. I can't get through to them on the phone and my credit card company have refused to help as I authorised the payment! During the first payout request, they asked me for my detail which I sent through, but have not heard anything since. They just ignore every email!

I really can't afford to lose that much money right now, so am keen to see how your pursuits pan out, but I fear all of it is gone and we have learned a very harsh lesson!

I'm not sure what to do especially now reading the letter above stating the company address does not exist!

[bigboydan]

First off, Welcome to the SBR forum sir

Sorry to hear that you were one of the players that were stuck by this book. Please feel free to fill out a complaint form and we will add you to the list of players that have been screwed over by this establishment.

[geeboy30]

Hi all

Well you could knock me over with a feather but I finally got a reply from Europlay after about 8 weeks of trying.
This morning I forwarded the email from the Austrian Trade Commission posted above to Europlay with a note saying that it now in the hands of the police

I got the following reply

dear mr. harrison,

our bank inform us you want pay out from your bet account. maybe our spam filter blockt your e-mail! please check your computer for virus infect!

if you want payout we need:

- Copies/scan of the front and back of the credit card used to deposit. Please ensure the back your card is signed.

- A recent copy of a bank statement showing the credit card number for the card you used and full postal address.

- A copy of your passport or driving licence.

Once in receipt of this, we can process your withdrawal



Best regards!
EUROPLAY-TEAM


Phone: +43 (0) 316405306 Fax: +43 (0) 31640530615
e-mail: bet@europlay.at


Now I am not getting my hopes up in any way at all but this is progress. It is obviously bollocks about the virus and the blocked email but at least there is someone there

I am uneasy about sending all these personal details to a possible fraudster but what other option do I have? I have sent the details as requested

I will keep you updated

[Dips]

Well its a step in the right direction, but I got this email as well, 2 weeks ago....so lets see what happens...please keep us updated

[Imonamission]

Originally Posted by geeboy30

We refer to your e-mail of 17 April 2008 and fear that you have fallen victim to a website (http://www.europlay.at) which has been set up with fraudulent intention.

Great to hear that finally at least some authority is doing at least something to at least one scam bookie in Austria

Don't know if this helps, but the site europlay.at seems to be registered to a person named Andreas Schiefer:

http://www.networksolutions.com/whoi...in=europlay.at

Also, when I got the mail where they promised to pay "in 60 days" (according to SBR news from that time it seems I was not the only one who got that promise in the year of hope 2006) the mail was also forwarded to Andreas Schiefer <s.andi@inode.at>

I'd imagine there's a fair chance that he would actually be a real person.

[Dips]

Cool, and I guess you still havent received your payout since 2006??!

Lets hope we all get our money and these guys are dealt with before more scamming!

[Imonamission]

Originally Posted by noyb

i could have sworn the case involved austrian-bookmaker jokerbets, that disappeared for a while (and actually came back later)

Well now that you mentioned... I also lost all the money I had at Jokerbets when that happened. They came back but my account did not. No explanation whatsoever, just a promise that "soon everything will work normally". That was in 2006 also

[Imonamission]

Originally Posted by Dips

Cool, and I guess you still havent received your payout since 2006??!

No. It could be just some temporary delay though.

But maybe the potential pressure from authorities could persuade Europlay to make few PR-payouts, who knows.

[geeboy30]

personname: Hr. Schiefer
organization: Andreas Schiefer
organization: Sportwetten Graz
street address: Muenzgrabenstrasse 86
postal code: A-8010
city: Graz
country: Austria
phone: +43316835300
fax-no: +43316835310
e-mail: spwg@styria.com
nic-hdl: ASSG1408788-NICAT
changed: 20031027 11:33:05
source: AT-DOM

[Dips]

Originally Posted by geeboy30

personname: Hr. Schiefer
organization: Andreas Schiefer
organization: Sportwetten Graz
street address: Muenzgrabenstrasse 86
postal code: A-8010
city: Graz
country: Austria
phone: +43316835300
fax-no: +43316835310
e-mail: spwg@styria.com
nic-hdl: ASSG1408788-NICAT
changed: 20031027 11:33:05
source: AT-DOM

I tried that email address, but it doesnt exist anymore, might any one try calling the number?

[geeboy30]

The number is dead

[geeboy30]

Hello

Just to keep you updated on my issue with Europlay

Absolutely nothing is happening

The European consumer centre are not intersted because it is fraud and they have pointed me in the direction of the police

The police are obviously not interested

The email from Europlay turned out o be a false hope. I sent them all my details but have heard nothing at all

Anybody got any more ideas?

[damndamna]

hi - i have suffered the same fate - most of their email addresses dont work even though the ysend confirmations of bets but when you reply to it you get a failed email. there is no gaming board like in most other EU countries so you cant go via that channel. i would like to know how one guy got repaid? also, i havent actually lost my money but i deposited a while ago, is there any way i can at least reclaim the money i deposited? are credit ards not insured against fraud such that if you get the police involved you can reclaim the money?

[damndamna]

infact - i just called my bank... if you did it via credit card recourse is to bank so you can basically claim the money back. if it was debit card like vis debit recourse is to you and they will try and help but if they dont succeed in contacting them they cant do much. im now hoping i did it on my credit card

[Thelongarm]

Hi - I have recently deposited and bet with Europlay int (real company name Sportwetten Graz) and like others when I requested a payout I heard nothing back. I tried the email addresses and fax number etc to no avail. I then submitted a number of new account requests via the page on their website (using a macro software package) with a message saying 'pay up' with my account id. Within 10 minutes I had received an email from them saying 'forward on you passport and credit card details and we will pay out'. The Email address was bet@europlay.at (which is the same as on the website strange !)

Now given that this website appears to be a scam operation I did not want to provide them with an identity fraud kit. I called my bank who advised me that by passing over my IBAN and EBIC codes this would ensure that I could be payed. I replied to the above email address (sending 40 so as to be seen) and within 5 minutes I got another reply saying no passport no money.

I replied again (many times) saying pay up and I got the reply saying that my account had been closed !

I have so far emailed the Austrian Embassy and Police to no avail, however like others my deposits were via VISA debit and Credit cards and so I'm currently progressing this claims with my banks.

I have established that Sportswetten is hosted by inode an Austrian ISP and so I have emails them at 'abuse@inode.at'.

My email is thelongarm@googlemail.com if you want to get in touch to share information and strategy.
Thanks....

[bigboydan]

First off, Welcome to the SBR forum Thelongarm

Sorry to hear that you got caught in this scam operation. I'm not sure if we can be of any assistance to you or now. However you can always fill out a complaint form and we can try to contact them on your behalf.