[bigboydan]

I hope Antigua gets that permission to suspend copyright protections on American movies, music and software on Friday.

Antigua expects big WTO online gambling win

Friday is a big day for the United States as it awaits the ruling by a World Trade Organization arbitration panel in its dispute with Antigua and Barbuda over online gambling. Friday is also the deadline for negotiations between the United States and the European Union.

<p>Representatives for Antigua and Barbuda told the Guardian Unlimited this week that the nation expects to receive a big damage award when the arbitration panel releases its decision on Friday.

The two-island Caribbean nation is asking for $3.4 billion in damages from the United States for not complying with the WTO's decision that its online gambling ban violates trade agreements. However, the counter offer from the United States was $500,000.

When the two countries couldn't reach a settlement agreement, the issue went to a WTO arbitration panel to be decided.

Antigua is asking permission to suspend copyright protections on American movies, music and software so its manufacturers can export those products to the United States and other markets to make up for the loss in business.

"I think we provided plenty of proof to justify our figure," said Mark Mendel, an attorney representing Antigua and Barbuda, in the Guardian Unlimited article. "We feel pretty confident it should be a high number. I think there's no doubt that we're going to get the ability to cross-retaliate."

After Antigua and Barbuda got its final ruling that the U.S. online gambling laws were still not in compliance with WTO trade rules, the United States chose to change its trade agreements rather than change the laws to allow online gambling.

In doing so, the nation opened itself up to claims from other nations who have interests in the online gambling sector as well.

The European Union has been in negotiations with the United States to come up with an agreeable settlement as well. The deadline for their talks was moved back to Dec. 14.

Gambling companies based in European Union countries have urged the European Union to seek as much as $100 billion in compensation. If an agreement isn't reached by Friday, the European Union could also ask for a WTO arbitration panel to decide the matter.

Nao Matsukata, a senior policy adviser with the law firm Alston & Bird, told the Guardian Unlimited he expects the U.S.-EU compensation talks to drag on past Friday. That also means they could be influenced by the arbitrator's report for the Antigua and Barbuda dispute.

"The Antigua report could clearly advantage one side or another depending on how it comes out," Matsukata said in the article.

Several other nations have stated their intent to file claims as well, including Japan, Canada and Australia.

[SBR_John]

The US offers $500,000??? Thats really quite insulting. Antigua's legal fees are probably 10x that.

I'm on record saying it will be around $900 mil. Thats probably way high. We will know soon.

[isetcap]

I have a feeling the US is going to get smacked on this one. Looking for the arbitration to come in much closer to 3 billion than 500k. After that, they get to fight a losing battle with the EU. This is what happens when politicians classify common secular activities as moral impropriety and create laws with limited discussion or research as to the ramifications of such decisions.

500k is simply a joke. They're going to be made to look like complete clowns when the panel submits their review.

[ShamsWoof10]

This sounds like a lot of smoke...

[curious]

i wish we had leaders with a backbone who told Antigua that if they ignored US copyrights, trademarks, and patents that the US marines would come and "explain" those laws to them. And, in the same press conference told the WTO to go **** off.

[CrazyLou]

This professor really makes this US congressman look stupid, when he tries to compare online gambling to cocaine and vital issues of national security. fast forward to around 1:10 it gets pretty good

[20Four7]

Originally Posted by curious

i wish we had leaders with a backbone who told Antigua that if they ignored US copyrights, trademarks, and patents that the US marines would come and "explain" those laws to them. And, in the same press conference told the WTO to go **** off.

I see you want to use the same "explaination" as your trying in Iraq. Wow the american mentality is unbelieveable sometimes. All these organizations are great when they back America but when America doesn't like it they are a piece of shit.

[curious]

Originally Posted by 20Four7

I see you want to use the same "explaination" as your trying in Iraq. Wow the american mentality is unbelieveable sometimes. All these organizations are great when they back America but when America doesn't like it they are a piece of shit.

So copyrights, trademarks and patents should be so much worthless pieces of paper? A little pissant country is threatening to steal from us and our so called leaders do nothing about it?

I detest the WTO and the UN and any of a dozen "global" organizations.

So go peddle your America bashing somewhere else mother ****er.

[Santo]

There's so much wrong with curious's positions it's hard to know where to start arguing them.

[curious]

Originally Posted by Santo

There's so much wrong with curious's positions it's hard to know where to start arguing them.

So, stealing copyrighted, trademarked, and patented property is okay in your book?

And, a country threatening to do that if they don't get a favorable ruling is okay in your book?

Give me a ****ing break.

[dwaechte]

Originally Posted by Santo

There's so much wrong with curious's positions it's hard to know where to start arguing them.

I'll second this statement.

[JC]

Curious,

This is not about might makes right. It's the US here that is not following the rule of law. The point of the WTO was to get away from retaliation, counter retaliation, and any hostilities that followed in the past.

The US signed the GATS. The US gets more out of the WTO than any other country. Nobody forced the US to join the WTO, nobody is forcing them to stay in it.

Since the US is not in compliance, the WTO is empowered to levy sanctions, both the dollar amount and type. Since traditional tariffs would hurt Antiguans more than the US, they are entitled to seek alternative relief.

The WTO governs the TRIPS Treaty which covers intelllectual property. So, if the WTO panel grants Antigua permission to sell US based intellectual property, they are not violating any international law.

Sanctions are not intended to be punative, but leverage to bring the violating country into compliance. The US expects every other country to come into compliance when they lose a WTO case. Why shouldn't they?

It would be very simple for the US to come into compliance, they just don't want to.

[JC]

Originally Posted by curious

So, stealing copyrighted, trademarked, and patented property is okay in your book?

And, a country threatening to do that if they don't get a favorable ruling is okay in your book?

Give me a ****ing break.

Antigua did get a favorable ruling. That's why they are about to be granted the sanctions.

You are the one who wants the losing party, the US, to make threats because the United States did not get a favorable ruling.

[Thremp]

Isn't the US hesitant to lose its copyrights etc as recourse due to the scuffle with the Chinese over this same issue?

[curious]

Originally Posted by JC

Antigua did get a favorable ruling. That's why they are about to be granted the sanctions.

You are the one who wants the losing party, the US, to make threats because the United States did not get a favorable ruling.

No, I don't want US intellectual property to be stolen blatantly and our so called leaders do nothing about it. Pretty simple actually. If a country cannot protect their copyrights, trademarks, and patents, then their economy is soon headed for ruin. This is a matter of national security and their should be no tolerance whatsoever for this kind of shit.

Yes, I do say back up our refusal to allow other countries rob us so blatantly with force, absolutely.


I detest the WTO and the UN and I think the united states should get out of them as soon as possible.

[curious]

Originally Posted by Thremp

Isn't the US hesitant to lose its copyrights etc as recourse due to the scuffle with the Chinese over this same issue?

We should be cutting off all trade with China over the copyright/trademark/patent issue. And any other country that steals from us.

[curious]

Originally Posted by JC

Antigua did get a favorable ruling. That's why they are about to be granted the sanctions.

You are the one who wants the losing party, the US, to make threats because the United States did not get a favorable ruling.

No, I want the US to make promises that if you steal from us by ignoring our copyrights, trademarks, and patents we will retaliate. ABSO****INGLUTELY. I don't believe in making threats, only promises.

[durito]

As a professional gambler, you sure have an odd take on this issue curious.

[Thremp]

Originally Posted by durito

As a professional gambler, you sure have an odd take on this issue curious.

He doesn't understand the issue at all. He should be pitied.

[gotsteam]

Curious is the prime example of why the world views Americans EXACTLY the way we do!

[DrunkenLullaby]

Originally Posted by Santo

There's so much wrong with curious's positions it's hard to know where to start arguing them.

Well, you can start with Devin Hester's 109 yard TD return THIS YEAR against the Giants where he had to LEAP up in the back of the end zone to catch the ball.

The guy hallucinates, so all subsequent opinions are irrelevant.

[curious]

Originally Posted by gotsteam

Curious is the prime example of why the world views Americans EXACTLY the way we do!

So what next? Columbia decides to steal our intellectual property because they want cocaine to be legalized?

Thailand decides to steal our intellectual property because they want child prostitution to be legalized?

Haiti steals our intellectual property because they want slavery to be legalized?

**** all you goddam punk ass mother ****ers.

[curious]

Originally Posted by DrunkenLullaby

Well, you can start with Devin Hester's 109 yard TD return THIS YEAR against the Giants where he had to LEAP up in the back of the end zone to catch the ball.

The guy hallucinates, so all subsequent opinions are irrelevant.

I watched that game idiot. Put down the crackpipe.

[curious]

Originally Posted by Thremp

He doesn't understand the issue at all. He should be pitied.

I understand the issue perfectly. The United States government has decided that internet gambling violates the morals of the country and they don't want it. A pissant little country that sponsors illegal internet gambling sites decides they want to extort money out of the United States. The cry to other pissant little countries at WTO because they are not being allowed to force their morality on the United States. The United States doesn't like being extored and tells the WTO to go **** off. The pissant little country didn't get their way so now they threaten to extort the United States by stealing our intellectual property.

I understand the issue perfectly, and I will always put the interests of the United States first. Just like you do in your backwater countries.

You assholes are just mad because I am not parroting the party line in this forum of "internet gambling should be made legal".

[betplom]

Originally Posted by Santo

There's so much wrong with curious's positions it's hard to know where to start arguing them.

I'll third that!

[JC]

Originally Posted by curious

I understand the issue perfectly. The United States government has decided that internet gambling violates the morals of the country and they don't want it. A pissant little country that sponsors illegal internet gambling sites decides they want to extort money out of the United States. The cry to other pissant little countries at WTO because they are not being allowed to force their morality on the United States. The United States doesn't like being extored and tells the WTO to go **** off. The pissant little country didn't get their way so now they threaten to extort the United States by stealing our intellectual property.

I understand the issue perfectly, and I will always put the interests of the United States first. Just like you do in your backwater countries.

You assholes are just mad because I am not parroting the party line in this forum of "internet gambling should be made legal".

You don't understand the issue at all.

The first part of your statement would be correct if the US had a moral problem with remote gambling and outlawed it everywhere in the US. The fact that remote gambling is offered in the US and the US tries to block it from Antigua made it clear to three separate WTO panels that the US position is not about morals but protecting domestic gambling interests.

Antigua is not trying to extort anything or steal anything. You should be mad at the United States for not honoring agreements and treaties signed by a President of the United States and ratified by the United States Senate. How do you feel about the US's failure to comply with the original decisions? Do you consider America to be a country that honors its word?

You think the US should drop out of the WTO, that's fine, but that's not what the US is saying here. It wants the WTO, it wants it to be a one way street. The US waves the WTO banner in the face of other countries when it serves them and wants to ignore WTO decisions that go against them. That's the problem.

[betplom]

JC:

Your post makes perfect sense and is exactly the way I understand the situation, unfortunately some here just don't get it, contrary to their statements claiming otherwise.

[curious]

Originally Posted by JC

You don't understand the issue at all.

The first part of your statement would be correct if the US had a moral problem with remote gambling and outlawed it everywhere in the US. The fact that remote gambling is offered in the US and the US tries to block it from Antigua made it clear to three separate WTO panels that the US position is not about morals but protecting domestic gambling interests.

Antigua is not trying to extort anything or steal anything. You should be mad at the United States for not honoring agreements and treaties signed by a President of the United States and ratified by the United States Senate. How do you feel about the US's failure to comply with the original decisions? Do you consider America to be a country that honors its word?

You think the US should drop out of the WTO, that's fine, but that's not what the US is saying here. It wants the WTO, it wants it to be a one way street. The US waves the WTO banner in the face of other countries when it serves them and wants to ignore WTO decisions that go against them. That's the problem.

Excuse me but Antigua threatened to ignore US copyrights and trademarks and make money by bootlegging US products if they don't get their way.

Once they said that, we owe them nothing at all except contempt and retribution.

Well, I consider the WTO to be controlled by our enemies so I don't think we should be honoring any agreements made through them.

I don't think we owe honoring our word to a country that threatens us with extortion. Twist it however you want but when Antigua says they will get their money by stealing our intellectual property, then we owe them nothing.

So, when Columbia decides that the US should be importing cocaine and gets our enemies in the WTO to side with them and then try to extort us by threatening to ignore US copyrights and trademarks that will be okay with you?

And when Thailand decides that child prostitution should be allowed in the US and they get our enemies in the WTO to side with them and they try to extort us by threatening to ignore US copyrights and trademarks, that will be okay with you?

Give me a ****ing break.

[dwaechte]

Originally Posted by curious

Excuse me but Antigua threatened to ignore US copyrights and trademarks and make money by bootlegging US products if they don't get their way.

Once they said that, we owe them nothing at all except contempt and retribution.

Well, I consider the WTO to be controlled by our enemies so I don't think we should be honoring any agreements made through them.

I don't think we owe honoring our word to a country that threatens us with extortion. Twist it however you want but when Antigua says they will get their money by stealing our intellectual property, then we owe them nothing.

So, when Columbia decides that the US should be importing cocaine and gets our enemies in the WTO to side with them and then try to extort us by threatening to ignore US copyrights and trademarks that will be okay with you?

And when Thailand decides that child prostitution should be allowed in the US and they get our enemies in the WTO to side with them and they try to extort us by threatening to ignore US copyrights and trademarks, that will be okay with you?

Give me a ****ing break.

I really suggest you research this issue further and come in with an open mind. It's hard for anyone here to debate with you when you take the position that you have.

[curious]

Originally Posted by dwaechte

I really suggest you research this issue further and come in with an open mind. It's hard for anyone here to debate with you when you take the position that you have.

I stand solidly by my position. I understand the situation. I am vehemently opposed to any organization infringing on the sovereignty of the United States. I vehemently oppose all of these New World Order organizations. I think the United States should immediately get out of all such organizations and stop funding them and kick them out of our country.

You will never see my point of view, and that is okay. I will never abide some punk ass little country trying to extort us by threatening to ignore our copyrights and trademarks and sell copyrighted materials so they can make money. And if our leaders had any backbone this punk ass little country would be taking that threat back.

The real problem of course is that I don't parrot the SBR Forum party line of "legal internet gambling at all costs". If I did parrot the party line you would have no problem with what else I said.

[Lucas]

I am curious how is cocaine and child prostitution connected with US WTO treaties. Betting is legal in USA, right? If also cocaine and child prostitution is legal there, i hope my apply for green card will pass soon!

[curious]

Originally Posted by Lucas

I am curious how is cocaine and child prostitution connected with US WTO treaties. Betting is legal in USA, right? If also cocaine and child prostitution is legal there, i hope my apply for green card will pass soon!

You know exactly what I am talking about. Here I will spell it out for you. Antigua decides that internet gambling should be legal in the US. The US government disagrees. Antigua takes their case to the enemies of the United States in the WTO and get a "ruling". So, now other countries will want illegal activities that they promote to be exported to the United States? bullshit.

[dwaechte]

Originally Posted by curious

You know exactly what I am talking about. Here I will spell it out for you. Antigua decides that internet gambling should be legal in the US. The US government disagrees. Antigua takes their case to the enemies of the United States in the WTO and get a "ruling". So, now other countries will want illegal activities that they promote to be exported to the United States? bullshit.

Your statements show a gross misunderstanding of the WTO and of the gambling circumstance.

You also seem to have an extremely inflated view of the US as an independent entity. If the US were to oppose all world organizations as you say they should, they would immediately lose a tremendous amount of their power and wealth. Until you see that the U.S. cannot survive as is without the help of "punk ass little countries", I think we will all continue out stance that you have very little understanding of the situation.

[durito]

Originally Posted by curious

Excuse me but Antigua threatened to ignore US copyrights and trademarks and make money by bootlegging US products if they don't get their way.

This is something that Anitgua is allowed to do under the terms of the WTO (which were designed by the US and are most favorable to the US). They have the right to make those claims.

Just like you have to right to write a PM calling my a racist name and threatening to come down here and kill, all because I laughed when you said you were a professional sports bettor.

Originally Posted by curious

Well, I consider the WTO to be controlled by our enemies so I don't think we should be honoring any agreements made through them.

Which countries are these "enemies"?

Originally Posted by curious

I don't think we owe honoring our word to a country that threatens us with extortion.

We do the same thing all the time (except we don't follow international law in the process)

Originally Posted by curious

So, when Columbia decides that the US should be importing cocaine and gets our enemies in the WTO to side with them and then try to extort us by threatening to ignore US copyrights and trademarks that will be okay with you?

And when Thailand decides that child prostitution should be allowed in the US and they get our enemies in the WTO to side with them and they try to extort us by threatening to ignore US copyrights and trademarks, that will be okay with you?

Give me a ****ing break.

As everyone else has said, this a completely ridiculous comparison. Cocaine is illegal in the United States and it's illegal here in Colombia.

It's people like you that make me embarrassed to be an American these days.

[Lucas]

from what i read, i thought, that gambling is not illegal in usa /for example LV, races or lotteries/

it is like if holland (where outdoor prostitution is not allowed on most streets, but some streets have only this reason and indoor you can do almost what you want) decides to ban prostitutes from eastern european union, while they promised there is a free movement of labor force inside EU borders

wto was found to protect free trade
No economist ever tried to say Ricardo law of economical advantage http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparative_advantage is BS, this law shows why free trade helps to all sides of the trade
there is also second law, cited by socialist economist "law of distribution of the ricardo´s advantage" and this law says that the more powerful economy´s advantage of the free trade is HIGHER than the poorer economy; that is why generally USA wants freetrade and never will kick WTO out, since the US, as big OPEN economy, would collapse in one day without international trade