[DIF]

With all rspekt for SBR and its ranking system, and with the tremendous work you put into this.

Having been bet on a number of highly rated sports books last year so I decided to go out on the internet to search for second ranking sites, which ranks and ranks not just American sports books, but also gives a good impression on the particular rules of European bookmakers available, and the Asian market is of course enormous, and the Australian. Several of these are not even rank-arranged here, and one must surely wonder why that is so? Think for example of large and trusted names 188 bet, mansion88, 12 and SBO Bet bet.

Some of them high-ranking SBR've fallen from A book of rubbish, so you can really trust the rankings?, I am thinking of WWTS, Cascade, WSEX, and others. The strange thing was that WSEX long low of A despite the complaints of slow-pay came in on a conveyor belt, so my confidence was weakened by the SBR. I realized that it was not as reliable as I had first thought. Fortunately, I listened to those who wrote on the forum about this, so I could take my money working week. Here is why this forum as number 1. But SBR rankings should be better and I mean above all that we can not remain with gradations for a long time when one finds that slow-pays complaints begin to enter. WSEX was a good example of this.

I found a great number of sportsbook options, and I do not blame the SBR in any way but I think the rankings have become worse the last years.

These can be as great a compliment to the SBRs rank, then we can compare the different rankings they are on såsett and get your own reliable rankings. For me it has worked well.

Judgement options I use;

http://www.bookmakersreview.com/

bookmakersreview.com

http://www.bookmakers2u.com/

bookmakers2u.com

http://online.casinocity.com/

casino city.com

http://www.osga.com/

osga.com

http://www.wosb.com/

wosb.com

[gangeriver]

you have a point. I think, SBR's europan books ratings are strange. For example, my favorite europan book is Betway.com (pinnacle and betway)
they have very good/fast paid, good software.(and superb europan basketball, soccer odds) Theirs "D-" bullshit! I'm not sure...I think their raiting is 3,5/5 in bookmarkersreview

but Betsson is "B" paid is slow, software is terrible.There are lots of wrong handicap/total. always you can see this, Lakers +12 / NY Knicks -12. if you bet Lakers +12 it going to cancel.looks like a children book
meanwhile, bwin has "C-" . You know...They are professional burglar.if you win, your account closes! I think, its a "F" book.It's not safe enough to "C-"
you are right, bookmarkersreview's europan and asian books ratings are more realistic than SBR's

[Rollins08]

betphoenix a B+? with all the complaints? that right there is suspicious.

[Smurf71]

What about BS book BetEd who will limit you after your second bet and who will confiscate your winnings from casino as a"system error".They have a B- rating. That is way off! There is a reason tho everything and that reason is called MONEY!
BetPhoenix B+ is by far more legit than BetEd's B- in my opinion . BetEd is aD book. Is BoDog an A book? I doubt that.
So these ratings are not accurate in many cases , they are largely based on financial relationship between the book and SBR.

[kiwi]

Originally Posted by gangeriver

For example, my favorite europan book is Betway.com (pinnacle and betway)
they have very good/fast paid, good software.(and superb europan basketball, soccer odds) Theirs "D-" bullshit!

In my opinion Betway is not better than D. Beside other disadvantages they have rules which they can use as they like against the player. Read for example this one:

"1.3.4 Should any player be found to be involved in, or should we suspect any player of being involved in, Match Betting or Arbitrage Betting, We shall be entitled, at our sole discretion, to restrict your future play or withhold all funds due to You and/or de-register and exclude You and/or suspend You as a player on any or all of the Websites."

[triffid]

Originally Posted by gangeriver

my favorite europan book is Betway.com

Each to there own, but i totaly understand why they have a low rating, a while back , before i found SBR, i opened an account with them and deposited in it. I played a bit of roulette and broke even. The next day i went to use the account and the account was closed complete with my money and the reason they gave? "my user name was a anagram of a swear phrase" (note, not a swear word itself, but an ANAGRAM of )
gettting any sort of reply there after was very, VERY difficult from them.
I see them as little more than a scam, that some folks seem to get off lightly from.

[trixtrix]

beted at b- is the only top rated book i will disagree w/

[trixtrix]

what we need to a rating guide for credit books

[winM]

Correct!

[M@ximo]

Originally Posted by Rollins08

betphoenix a B+? with all the complaints? that right there is suspicious.

agree on this one....

[big joe 1212]

I agree that some ratings may be influenced by money.

What I like to do is scroll through the forum and and see what the players are saying about the books. With this , I form my own ratings and opinion.The forum is what makes SBR so great. You get to hear all the players stories. If I hear enough good things about a book, I give them a try.
I have found many good books through SBR.

[Chopsticks]

http://www.sportsbookreview.com/player+reviews/ could possibly be used more (obvious shill warning though). Here people can rate SBObet, 12bet, 188bet and some other books that are yet to be rated by sbr.

But the forum is where you should look for the most up to date information on the bookies out there. I have no idea why sbr don't list some of the asians, and I also disagree with the rating on some european bookies. But there are litterally hundreds out there so it is a tough job to keep the ratings up to date.

[althelegend]

On the whole though, sbr ratings are a useful yardstick.

[Bill Dozer]

Originally Posted by DIF

Some of them high-ranking SBR've fallen from A book of rubbish, so you can really trust the rankings?, I am thinking of WWTS, Cascade, WSEX, and others. The strange thing was that WSEX long low of A despite the complaints of slow-pay came in on a conveyor belt, so my confidence was weakened by the SBR. I realized that it was not as reliable as I had first thought. Fortunately, I listened to those who wrote on the forum about this, so I could take my money working week. Here is why this forum as number 1. But SBR rankings should be better and I mean above all that we can not remain with gradations for a long time when one finds that slow-pays complaints begin to enter. WSEX was a good example of this.

The reason why we include forum search results, a news history, a rating history and links to player feedback on each book review page is because ratings are not an exact science. They are our guide and won't always be weighted the same way each player would...which is why we have good debate here. Something you also need to keep in mind is that the scale changes. There was a time when a Bet365 was like a William Hill that serviced the US and publicly traded companies were at the top of the industry. Still, the Caribbean book paid out the fastest by far. Ownership and the playing fields change over time. You can't compare an A rating from the WWTS era to an A rating now or an A rating when the industry was in its first 5 years.

With all the industry changes in the last few years it's even harder to use the same measuring stick. In some cases you are comparing brick and mortar sportsbooks with online-only betting. That Brick and mortar casino like a Ladbrokes or a bet365 will never have company issues but a Bet365 has cheated players in a few rare cases. BetUS built its company on stolen funds early but now invests in first class marketing and CS mgrs from other top books and has become one of the largest. You have to rate player risk there. Add in the Asian market where many books can theoretically be shut down anytime but very likely won't. SBR is tasked with trying to assign a weight to each factor and it's never going to be perfect but no other site will be a better resource, in large part due to you guys.

I'm not sure what you are saying about WSEX. Their slow-pays have been documented since March 09, they are C- and are still paying and struggling at the same slow-pay rate. Ratings will change. http://www.sportsbookreview.com/sbr/wsex/ http://www.sportsbookreview.com/forum/wsex/

[shantystar]

Indeed sbr trustable,GL.

[Climate]

Originally Posted by Rollins08

betphoenix a B+? with all the complaints? that right there is suspicious.

The only problem with the complaints is that they are far more suspicious than the facts.

The facts say they pay fast and on time to just about everyone. The complaints usually have a hole or two in them.

[skrtelfan]

Originally Posted by trixtrix

beted at b- is the only top rated book i will disagree w/

What about BetOnline at a B+? That one is really suspicious.

[TJ EasyStreet]

Originally Posted by althelegend

On the whole though, sbr ratings are a useful yardstick.

This and ...

What I like to do is scroll through the forum and and see what the players are saying about the books.

In my short time on these forums, I've seen some griping about sponsors getting inflated ratings; and it is a valid gripe. However, I like to think of it in the same way I'd give my friend the benefit of the doubt over the guy on the street. While my friend might sometimes act retarded and do stupid shit, I know that our friendship will result in more open communication about the problem and I'd "grade" him higher than I would some stranger that hasn't made an attempt at becoming my friend.

Is it right? Maybe not. But if XYZ book is buying spots on SBR, I would suspect that they'd be on extra-special good behavior. I'd also suspect that if a sponsored book starts acting ridiculous and not working with SBR, the fallout would be tenfold that of some random book.

As of right now, I am playing at BoDog, Easy Street, and BetJam; merely out of familiarity. BoDog is getting ditched as soon as I cash out or go broke and that is because of the forums and the SBR Posters' Poll in the top right. To me, that is more valuable than anything SBR can say and that isn't me trying to slight SBR's work.

[noyb]

Originally Posted by DIF

With all rspekt for SBR and its ranking system, and with the tremendous work you put into this.

Having been bet on a number of highly rated sports books last year so I decided to go out on the internet to search for second ranking sites, which ranks and ranks not just American sports books, but also gives a good impression on the particular rules of European bookmakers available, and the Asian market is of course enormous, and the Australian. Several of these are not even rank-arranged here, and one must surely wonder why that is so? Think for example of large and trusted names 188 bet, mansion88, 12 and SBO Bet bet.

Some of them high-ranking SBR've fallen from A book of rubbish, so you can really trust the rankings?, I am thinking of WWTS, Cascade, WSEX, and others. The strange thing was that WSEX long low of A despite the complaints of slow-pay came in on a conveyor belt, so my confidence was weakened by the SBR. I realized that it was not as reliable as I had first thought. Fortunately, I listened to those who wrote on the forum about this, so I could take my money working week. Here is why this forum as number 1. But SBR rankings should be better and I mean above all that we can not remain with gradations for a long time when one finds that slow-pays complaints begin to enter. WSEX was a good example of this.

I found a great number of sportsbook options, and I do not blame the SBR in any way but I think the rankings have become worse the last years.

These can be as great a compliment to the SBRs rank, then we can compare the different rankings they are on såsett and get your own reliable rankings. For me it has worked well.

Judgement options I use;

http://www.bookmakersreview.com/

bookmakersreview.com

http://www.bookmakers2u.com/

bookmakers2u.com

http://online.casinocity.com/

casino city.com

http://www.osga.com/

osga.com

http://www.wosb.com/

wosb.com

it's an interesting argument you make. too bad the fact you are constantly plugging your own ratings website (the bookmakers2u / odds2u site which you clearly own), which you explicitly mention in at least half your posts on this board, doesn't make you a very credible person to start this topic.

maybe it would be better if you would stop mentioning your own one-man show website nobody ever heard of, before starting topics about whether or not we should trust sbr. i still trust them more than a lot of other very poorly setup ratings websites out there, including yours.

[relaaxx]

sbr does not do a very good job with ratings. it's in the forum you find a better idea of how a book is doing. seems impossible to keep up and have a good ratings system with all the books and changes in how they handle themselves daily. but every day you will find comments on how books are doing good or bad in the forum. have a book in mind. go to the forum. ask the question. someone will have had an experience that will render a comment.

[robmpink]

Not at all. I heard stories about at least one sbr employee taking advantage of various books weak spots. They have other people make an account in which they finance. When they get caught exploiting the weakness, the sbr employee magically gets assigned the "dispute". SHADY!

[relaaxx]

Originally Posted by noyb

it's an interesting argument you make. too bad the fact you are constantly plugging your own ratings website (the bookmakers2u / odds2u site which you clearly own), which you explicitly mention in at least half your posts on this board, doesn't make you a very credible person to start this topic.

maybe it would be better if you would stop mentioning your own one-man show website nobody ever heard of, before starting topics about whether or not we should trust sbr. i still trust them more than a lot of other very poorly setup ratings websites out there, including yours.

thanks - did not know that

[Joe Dogs]

Anyone know why Matchbook was down graded.

[DIF]

relaxxx. I find this discussion very useful, and this has nothing to do with bookmaker2 u, who started this discussion is not that important, the important thing is that people need to trust the bookmaker they deposit funds to.

[mtneer1212]

Betonline and Betphoenix seem high to me ...... your funds may be safe there ,which is always the #1 criteria, but the complaints should not be ignored.

[KGambler]

Originally Posted by mtneer1212

Betonline and Betphoenix seem high to me ...... your funds may be safe there ,which is always the #1 criteria, but the complaints should not be ignored.

I opened an account with BP because they had good NCAAB lines and a B+ rating.

Big mistake.

Some of my issues so far...

1. I took the smaller bonus in order to get the -105 lines. They moved me off the -105 lines and said I was not a "recreational player". Why? Because I use the SBR odds tool to line shop. I don't blindly bet a game at just any book, I look for the best available line. I am far from a big winner and I don't even chase steam.

2. I had a winning $700 wager mysteriously disappear. I was so perplexed that I asked the forum "Has this happened to anyone else?" because I literally could not believe my own eyes (or trust my own memory, you get what I'm saying). Well a couple of weeks later someone posted about how one of their pending wagers was lost by BP and BP admitted it!

Could you imagine a worse mistake for a book to make? Losing pending wagers right out of their database? And still a B+?

3. I logged into my account to see a bunch of bets I did not place. This has happened to 3 other SBR posters that we know about. So far they are telling me that it was my IP address that logged in (just like they told the 2 people who they nevertheless refunded ). Many of the bets were ridiculous 4-5 team parlays full of games which hadn't even started yet when I alerted them. They still refused to cancel them.

I have/have had accounts at 5Dimes, BetJamaica, Bodog, Sportsbook, SportsInteraction, BetCris, Pinnacle, WSEX, Greek, Matchbook, BetOnline and BetUS. I have never experienced anything close to this.

Yeah, I haven't been too happy with this "B+" book.

[Doug]

No, not anymore, but no other site is better, either.

trust opinions/ experiences of veteran posters over sites that are basically the book ( on a percentage basis).

[G's pks]

Some material out of date so I would say be careful!

[noyb]

Originally Posted by DIF

this has nothing to do with bookmaker2 u, who started this discussion is not that important

if the person starting the topic is not as objective as he should be, that's fine, but be honest about it and mention it upfront (in which case your posts will likely get deleted for illegal advertising though). don't try to pretend you're sincerely worried about the sbr ratings, while advertising your own ratingsite in the same post. that's why i think it is important who started the topic.

[pokernut9999]

Amazing how many complaints stem from bonuses.

[jessetopolski]

you couldnt imagine

[DIF]

Ok noyb, lets say Im the owner of this site, I dont say I am, but whats your interest in that? I find a lot of good sites of internet, just because of this forum. Thats a good thing. Not a bad thing.

K gambler, thanks for your input , after your thread I have to check my account-history with BP, Im not a happy customer either.

[nenad]

europe-usa euro-dollar conflict

[Dark Horse]

SBR ratings have improved, in my opinion. They were the gold standard, then they lost some of their luster, but now they are on the way up again. There was a little bit of a hiatus, it seemed, following the internet legislation, the results of which were not clear for quite some time afterwards. In any case, the ratings seem heavily weighted towards financial security and stability, as they should be.

How do I judge the ratings? Not by day-to-day issues or non-issues, but by experience over the long term. In my time at SBR I have never run into a problem with a sportsbook that couldn't be solved quickly, for books rated B or higher. I had one little hiccup with a C book, that dropped to D just after I was in, but that too was resolved without much of a problem; largely because I had come to 'know' one of the book's people on this forum. I was lucky to be out of Cascade before that house of cards collapsed. And, because of info posted on forum, I was also out of Neteller right before they froze funds for months.

So all in all I would say the info here is extremely useful. Do I really care if a book is B+ or A-? Not in the slightest. Do I care when Matchbook drops from A to B-? Absolutely. The two main factors I use to read the ratings are stability and momentum (up or down). If a once high rated book drops a letter, get out of the way. The drop may not end there.

There are more complaints against books here than before, but that reflects more on the much increased number of posters than on the books. At times it seems that posters expect their every little complaint to be translated into a drop in ratings. Thankfully, these personal 'requests' are largly ignored. What a mess the ratings would be if they were not. (in response to not being heard, some of these, mostly newer, posters then suggest that the rating are inaccurate...)

As a matter of fact, thinking about this now, the ratings may be at their best now. I believe Cascade came as a shock to SBR. So, if that couldn't happen today, because the evaluation process improved as a result, the ratings should be better now than in those days. If a rating drops slowly, as for WSEX, that's ok. It gives people plenty of time to get out of the way. In that sense, Cascade chose its name with remarkable foresight.

[tachi]

really the SBR ratings aren't very accurate,

but this section Sportsbooks & The Industry is the most accurate in the world as a guide for bookmakers.