[maria53]

I want to make a complain against betoto.com a subsidiary of Bwin International Ltd and which is registered in Gibraltar.
I have opened an account with www.betoto.com on 13th of July 2009 and I have deposited more than EUR 3,000.
From August 2009 till February 12th 2010 I managed to increase the balance up
to about EUR 17,200. All my bets have been placed in a lawful manner for more than 6 months when they decided to disable my account without any notice.
Most of my bets (95-97%) were bets placed on in-play games (on live platform)
and usually I made bets of EUR 200-250 per bet. My bets have been placed especially on basketball and handball games.
I did not receive any free bets and bonuses. All the money from my balance has been earned placing and winning bets.

On 12th February 2010 I tried to log on to my account but it returned that my account has been disabled and to contact the customer service.
I have contacted the customer services and I have provided them copies of my ID card issued by the Romanian Police and my last phone bill in order to check my identity (name, birth date, address etc.).
They did not want to tell me the reason for which they close my account and why I'm not eligible anymore to have an account with them.

International Responsible Gambling Code of Practice states the following: "Players should be able to access their account history dating back for a minimum period of 1 month, including all deposits, withdrawals and wagers." Currently I can not log to my account which I think it's an abuse and does not comply with the European Directives and Gambling Act.
I have told them to send the money in my moneybookers account which I used to make the deposits to Betoto account, in case they do not want to re-open my account in order to be able to withdraw my money in balance.
They did not return my money from betoto account to my moneybookers account and they have stopped responding to my emails two days ago and I could not contact them on phone.
According to Gambling Act and their Terms and Conditions point 5 Registration/ Account in case they close a client account they have to return the client's real money in balance as of the time they closed.
I did not do anything illegal.
Please help me to recover the balance of my betoto account.
After my account has been closed I checked on internet and I seen that many customers have similar problems with companies from Bwin Group.
I considered that what they did is illegal and it is a huge abuse.
Please help me to make justice and to avoid similar cases for other customers.
Thank you for your help and excuse my English errors.

[mirmiroa]

i think they wil give your money just wait to mail you but why you dont call them??

[maria53]

I tried to call them twice but the line was busy or the number is not correct...I will try to call them tomorrow again because now they are not answering.
Did anybody tried to call them at the following number?
00350 200 47 118 (Mo-Fr 11am-5pm (GMT+2), Sa+Su 3pm-7pm (GMT+2))

[AimingHigh]

I think you're confusing various different matters legally - closure of account and the procedures that govern that 'vs' access to account history for active accounts.

If that phone number doesn't work, and they haven't responded to your e-mails, perhaps you should consider filing a dispute with eCOGRA, of which they're a member? See here: http://www.ecogra.com/dispute.aspx?Page=3&OP=P

That said, I think SBR has a good working relationship with BWin, if you decide instead to fill out the SBR complaint form (see my sig). I'm not sure what that means for Betoto, as I don't know whether being "operated by" BWin means they share the same customer service, management, etc.

If you wanted to try resolving it over the phone, perhaps BWin would be able to provide you with solid phone contact info for Betoto? I really don't know much about Betoto, sorry

[jimakos]

Give them some time. Too many users to handle at Bwin Group.

Telephone 00350 200 47 118 (Mo-Fr 11am-5pm (GMT+2), Sa+Su 3pm-7pm (GMT+2)) Fax 0043-1-5856044-10 Postal address betoto.com, bwin International Ltd., Suite 611, Europort, Gibraltar

[maria53]

I tried today to call them 4 times today and each time I heard a robot which I think it is in Greek.
I think I will contact also the Police from Gibraltar.
Did someone else have problems with betoto?

[MLogan]

the Police from Gibraltar?

[maria53]

As I know they are registered in Gibraltar.

[Champi]

They are correct soemtimes slow with support ,i receive 4k Euro previous week for 1 day via MoneyBookers

[Justin7]

I'm on it. Give me a few days.

[siabdo23]

justin can do miracles

[maria53]

Thanks for help Justin...I hope I will recover the money.

[maria53]

Did anyone had the account disabled by betoto/ bwin and did not recover the money from the balance?
Which was the reason for which they disable the account?
Did anyone had a lawsuit against the companies from Bwin Group?

I have sent them the copies of the ID card, last phone bill and I told them that they can contact also moneybookers to confirm my personal details and is it is necessary even the bank which I used to withdraw the money from moneybookers account. From betoto account I did not make any withdrawals but I did it from other bookmakers.

[cristianbet]

they suspect you because you're woman

[maria53]

I think that Girbral Regulaty Authority has to make an audit to all the companies from BWIN Group (bwin, betoto etc) and to make them to change the attitude and the way they treat the customers.
How can bee possible to refuse to pay the balance accrued in the account?
It is of the tort of criminal order and should be punished as such.
I think that all the punters who have problems to recover the money from bwin / betoto should make a complaint to Gibraltar Regulatory Authority who gave them the license.
It seems that bwin/ betoto have all rights but no obligations to the cutomers.

[davidchong]

yes you woman

[AimingHigh]

Originally Posted by maria53

It is of the tort of criminal order and should be punished as such.

There's no such thing. Rather than making various weird "legal" arguments, I'd just wait for Justin to work with Betoto and try not to worry about it too much in the meantime. If you've done nothing wrong, Justin will ensure you get paid in full.

Not sure why the fact you're female is relevant - I assume the posters are joking? .... unless, they're referring to the fact that people with multiple accounts may pretend to be female, and we've had a couple of those get caught on here.

[maria53]

They have just sent me the money I have deposited 3,448 EURO but they are refusing to pay me the money which I have won making bets for more than 7 months (about 13.700 EURO).
I told them that I will not stop here because I did nothing wrong and I have sent them all the documents they asked. I told them to contact the Romanian Police if they want to check my identity and the validity of the documents which I sent.

[jimakos]

For what reason they told you that they will close the account?

[maria53]

They did not want to tell me the reason.
My parents had also an account on my mom name and they disabled also their account where they have won a significant amount (around EURO 10k) and they refuse to pay them also.
I will contact Gibraltar Gambling Authority and I found also a lawyer from Gibraltar who is specialized in gambling disputes. In case Justin can not help me I will also contact this lawyer to see how can I start a lawsuit. This can not continue this way.
I'm ready to go also to Economic Fraud Police in order to make justice.
I will fight for the money which I won in a lawful manner by making bets on live games. It took me 7 months of my life to win these money....

[AimingHigh]

Do you live in the same house as your parents? Or, even if you don't - eg. you're in student accommodation - is their address also your permanent address? Have you ever checked your account from their house? Have they ever checked their account from yours?

Did you and your mother bet on the same things?

When did Betoto close your mother's account?

[maria53]

My parents have their house but now they live with me. I have 2 computers (a desktop and a laptop) connected to internet through a router and I have also mobile internet.
Many times I place the same bets as my father or my mother but this has nothing to do with this as nowhere is written that if you have an account another relative can have an account.
We make bets on separate accounts. My money have been won by making more than 300-400 bets so they can not say that all the bets have been on fixed games.

[jimakos]

Originally Posted by maria53

My parents have their house but now they live with me. I have 2 computers (a desktop and a laptop) connected to internet through a router and I have also mobile internet.
Many times I place the same bets as my father or my mother but this has nothing to do with this as nowhere is written that if you have an account another relative can have an account.
We make bets on separate accounts. My money have been won by making more than 300-400 bets so they can not say that all the bets have been on fixed games.

This kind of betting is the reason they closed your account.
I think there is a rule that the user can only have one account.
Hope you get your money...

[Glitch]

the user has only one account. each user has one account

basically tho- if both accounts have been logged into at the same location and especially if you have the same last name and bet the same games- shannanigans may occur.

[jimakos]

Did you also have bwin accounts? If yes, you were asking for trouble.

[AimingHigh]

Basically, two accounts being accessed from the same IP address, betting the same lines (likely often to the limit?), from two people with the same surname.... From the book's perspective, you can see how this suggests one person is operating two accounts to circumvent limits, etc. and just "adopting" the identity of a family member for the second account.

Asking for trouble, sorry. It's not as clear cut that you'll get all of your funds back as your initial post would have suggested.

Let's just hope you didn't also play poker against your mother.

[maria53]

I did make only live bets and I did not receive any bonuses or free bets.
The multiple accounts are used for bonuses and free bets. I think that a person who wants to cheat to obtain bonuses and free bets makes multiple accounts using the different family names (i.e the name of fried etc.). If I would want to make bets on the same game I could open on my name an account on bwin.com and one on betoto.com as they have the same games in the offer.
The only problem is that I won money and now they do not want to pay me the money.

Even in case a person has two accounts (which is not my case) they have to pay the money accrued in the account when they close the account and may exclude the respective user from placing further bets and from participating in other games. Please see below an extract from Terms and conditions:

"In case of suspected manipulations or fraud, and in case of any violation of these Terms and Conditions, in particular the multiple simultaneous participation in games and the opening of several accounts, the company may exclude the respective user from placing further bets and from participating in other games. Any criminal or suspicious activities may be reported to the appropriate authorities.In such a case, the company will pay the user any real money balance in his betting account after deducting a handling charge of 10%, provided that this has been acquired in a lawful manner. FreeBets or winnings that may have resulted from FreeBets, which were not acquired in a lawful manner, will be void. When users are migrated from other platforms to the company, the placement of a first bet and the participation in the first game is taken as registration and as authorisation for the transfer of all existing credit from the transferring platform."

According to their terms and conditions real money are credit balances in the account.

[maria53]

I did not play poker or other casino games, I did not have a bwin.com account and I have only one betoto.com account.
Even if you have an account with bwin.com and one with betoto.com does not mean that you have two accounts.
bwin.com and betoto.com are separate legal entities, with different sites but which are part of the same group.

[aggie]

why are your parents living with you?

[maria53]

I was sick and finally I had to have a surgery. They have an apartment in a smaller city.

[silviu]

I have just wanted to enter in betoto account and it says that my account has been closed and to contact the customer service. Last week I made a deposit of EURO 1000 and I managed to win about 800 EURO and it seems that they closed my account without any notice and they did not returned the money in my moneybookers account. Seems to be the same problem Maria has. What should I do to recover my money? Betoto is really stealing our money....

[razvan]

Guys do you know if Bwin tries to disappear with our money?
Today I wanted to withdraw some money from my bwin account when I tried to long in my account it said "your account has been disabled please contact the customer service".
I have in my account about 2,100 EURO and I'm afraid they will not re-open my account and won't allow me to withdraw my funds. I won about 700 EURO in last few days and now they closed my account and they did not pay me the money.
Guys please help me...

[Willie Bee]

Originally Posted by maria53

Many times I place the same bets as my father or my mother but this has nothing to do with this...

Sorry to disagree, but that very likely has EVERYTHING to do with your situation.

Did anyone in your house sign up here at SBR as well to discuss this?

[maria53]

What do you mean? I told you that I have only one account with betoto.com and my parents have one on my mother name and address.
In their terms and conditions is not mentioned that if one of your relatives has an account with them you can not open an account. Multiple accounts can be used for free bets or bonuses, but as I already told you I did not receive any bonuses or free bets.
All the money have been won on live sport bets.

[Willie Bee]

If you've all made bets from the same computer/IP, you've opened the door for them to close accounts, at least you've given them probable cause to be suspicious. Same here at SBR; when two accounts are registered from same IP, it raises suspicion.