[jimakos]

Pinnacle refuses to pay me a 100 euro bet that won at live betting at 4.96 England Carling Cup Manchester City vs Manchester United for Game because of (as they say) the danger zone.

But Manchester City scored her second goal 17 seconds after I placed my bet according to their database. Over a minute from the time that i started to place it and confirm it two times in order to place it.

How ridiculous is that for a A+ bookmaker not to pay bets because of the danger zone they say? Pinnacle is a A+?

I first took an email from pinnacle that was saying that bad line was offered

Dear Sir,
During the live wagering on the Manchester City vs. Manchester United match a bad line was offered.
Please accept our apologies however, as stated in our Web-Site rules, we do not accept action with obvious, gross line errors.
For this reason we have cancelled your ticket -1 on Manchester City +396
We apologize for the error.
Kind regards,

But this was not true. No bad line was offered. In fact I had placed some minutes earlier bets at the same and bigger odds.
160345805-1 12:39pm 19-Jan-10 Manchester City for Game +1101 44.00 484.44
160349890-1 1:15pm 19-Jan-10 Manchester City for Game +364 30.00 109.20
160350028-1 1:18pm 19-Jan-10 Manchester City for Game +377 50.00 188.50
160350048-1 1:18pm 19-Jan-10 Manchester United for Game +191 300.00 -300.00

Then the sent me this email

Dear Sir,
Please disregard our previous email as it was sent in error.
A live wager accepted during a danger zone for the Manchester City vs. Manchester United match was not cancelled by our system.
Please accept our apologies, however, as stated when making your wager, live wagers are subject to deletion based on the outcome of the danger zone.
For this reason your wager 160350413 -1 on Manchester City +396 has been cancelled from your account.
We apologize for the error.
Kind regards,
Customer Service Department
Pinnacle Sports

How ridiculous is that ''live wagers are subject to deletion based on the outcome of the danger zone'' As i can understand it, pinnacle can delete all live betting wagers according to their profit?
And this rule is from a sportsbook that is at the elite, at A+?

I insisted on having my bet settled but they ignor me by telling me Your email has been forwarded to the appropriate person for over a week now.

If someone can help me or advise me what to do, i would be very grateful
Thank you for reading this post and for your time.
jim

[Dunder]

I would suggest you have a look at this thread which is a very similar case:
http://forum.sbrforum.com/sportsbook...uro-today.html

If you wanted to pursue it further, there is a link to the SBR complaint form at the top (first or second thread) of this page.

[tomcowley]

Seriously, how hard is it to offer live soccer markets conditional on the score being the same 1-2 minutes out? Pinny's live american sports seem fine, but this stuff is just moronic and begging for abuse.

[jimakos]

Thanks dunder, I think that it's about the same case but they first told me that bad line was offered in order to cancel my bet, and then they sent me an email with this ridiculous danger zone reason.

[storm70]

Its ridiculours,if it danger zone why the bet is confirm,they should hold it until it clear like what other book do. To confirm and say due to danger zone cancelled is cheating

[moonbeam]

Originally Posted by jimakos

Pinnacle refuses to pay me a 100 euro bet that won at live betting at 4.96 England Carling Cup Manchester City vs Manchester United for Game because of (as they say) the danger zone.

But Manchester City scored her second goal 17 seconds after I placed my bet according to their database. Over a minute from the time that i started to place it and confirm it two times in order to place it.

How ridiculous is that for a A+ bookmaker not to pay bets because of the danger zone they say? Pinnacle is a A+?

I first took an email from pinnacle that was saying that bad line was offered

Dear Sir,
During the live wagering on the Manchester City vs. Manchester United match a bad line was offered.
Please accept our apologies however, as stated in our Web-Site rules, we do not accept action with obvious, gross line errors.
For this reason we have cancelled your ticket -1 on Manchester City +396
We apologize for the error.
Kind regards,

But this was not true. No bad line was offered. In fact I had placed some minutes earlier bets at the same and bigger odds.
160345805-1 12:39pm 19-Jan-10 Manchester City for Game +1101 44.00 484.44
160349890-1 1:15pm 19-Jan-10 Manchester City for Game +364 30.00 109.20
160350028-1 1:18pm 19-Jan-10 Manchester City for Game +377 50.00 188.50
160350048-1 1:18pm 19-Jan-10 Manchester United for Game +191 300.00 -300.00

Then the sent me this email

Dear Sir,
Please disregard our previous email as it was sent in error.
A live wager accepted during a danger zone for the Manchester City vs. Manchester United match was not cancelled by our system.
Please accept our apologies, however, as stated when making your wager, live wagers are subject to deletion based on the outcome of the danger zone.
For this reason your wager 160350413 -1 on Manchester City +396 has been cancelled from your account.
We apologize for the error.
Kind regards,
Customer Service Department
Pinnacle Sports

How ridiculous is that ''live wagers are subject to deletion based on the outcome of the danger zone'' As i can understand it, pinnacle can delete all live betting wagers according to their profit?
And this rule is from a sportsbook that is at the elite, at A+?

I insisted on having my bet settled but they ignor me by telling me Your email has been forwarded to the appropriate person for over a week now.

If someone can help me or advise me what to do, i would be very grateful
Thank you for reading this post and for your time.
jim

Hi jimakos,

of course pinnacle is a great book, but their soccer "live betting" is very near to a scam.

My experience is that pinnacle cancelled about 90% of all live betting soccer wagers if a goal was scored within 60 seconds after you placed your wager.

They called it "danger zone" which is completly bullsh!t.

It would be much better to put a 6 seconds time delay on live betting wagers
instead of this "danger zone" nonsence which allows Pinnacle to void every wager the way Pinnacle want.

[HedgeHog]

Hard to believe Pinnacle would resort to this BS. BTW, if you are on the wrong end of a "Danger Zone" goal do they kill your bet as well. I doubt it. I guess they're desperate for $$$ since kicking us Americans out.

[durito]

Originally Posted by HedgeHog

Hard to believe Pinnacle would resort to this BS. BTW, if you are on the wrong end of a "Danger Zone" goal do they kill your bet as well. I doubt it. I guess they're desperate for $$$ since kicking us Americans out.

Yes, in fact they do. Moonbeam had several would be losing wagers canceled.

[Climate]

What's the sense in even offering wagers where your clientele feels like they were cheated, and you put them through this type of anguish?

There's got to be a better way to offer live wagers where:
a)the book makes a profit and
b)the players don't feel like they are getting cheated and put through a boatload of anguish.

Pinnacle is strong, no doubt, but there has to be a better way. The fact that the whole thing is up to their discretion also leaves a bad smell, even if the meat is not rotten, which it may not be, but the bettors will suffer 100x the grief on losing a winner than what good they feel by escaping a loser when that one's cancelled.

[TigerPawsSC]

I struggle to see how this is legal.

[Santo]

Effectively the OP's choice at this stage is either get his money or keep his Pinnacle account.

[Dunderfisk]

I never play their live betting. In fact I havent found it and I have played on this site for two months now.

But that rule about danger zone is outright theft. If u place a wager on a team and that team scores within one minute then the wager is cancelled, but if the other team scores do u get ur money back then too?

[Dunderfisk]

since they say it is a A+ bookie. Anyone that knows?

[pjesnik24]

Originally Posted by Dunderfisk

I never play their live betting. In fact I havent found it and I have played on this site for two months now.

But that rule about danger zone is outright theft. If u place a wager on a team and that team scores within one minute then the wager is cancelled, but if the other team scores do u get ur money back then too?

yes

[Ruifgalmeida]

forget liveplay and stick with pregame betting, it sems that the liveplay is getting like a casino -ev

[jimakos]

I told them that they can not cancel a bet placed 17 seconds before the goal and they could easily have what other sportsbooks have. A 5-6 SECONDS DELAY!!! How difficult is that to do it?
I don't see the reason for having the danger zone and not the 5-6 seconds delay.

I also ask them to tell me the length of the danger zone but pinnacle customer service sent me this

Regarding your comment on the length of a danger zone, we would like to point out that the reason other Sportsbooks may use a five second delay is that they charge several times more vig than Pinnacle Sports. The extra vig is more than enough to cover the risk of a corner kick resulting in a goal.

which is true but not what I asked. Does anyone know the length of the danger zone because I couldn't find it at the rules.

Anyway I also sent an email to the SBR filling the complaint form but I do not have any reply yet.

[JoshW]

I see a pattern developing. This goes two ways. Pinnacle changes, or customers get educated that this is how Pinnacle is going to operate live soccer betting and the public adapts. With the latter, they will have to suffer through hundreds of complaints on the forums to get to the point where the public adapts.

[Dr.Gonzo]

Jimakos

Just to make it clear. If you complain about this you are most likley going to get paid with SBRs help.

BUT pinnacle will close your account.

Is $396 worth losing your account?

You decide.

[jimakos]

Dr.Gonzo...
I can not understand why pinnacle will close my account if SBR help me get paid.
I had a live bet deleted from my pinnaclesports account and I think they are wrong in this situation.
I am not an arber, scalper, traider or anything else...in fact I just started to place soccer bets at pinnacle although I have the account for 2 over years (I used to place pre-game volleyball bets from time to time) and I am loosing over 10.000 euros.
Why should pinnacle close my account?

[pjesnik24]

danger zone is completely normal for most of the bookies, asian bookies have it and pinnacle as well. the problem with pinnacle is that you never know when your bet is accepted and when not. other bookies, like bwin, expekt and other who have 5-10 seconds delay just remove the offer when the ball is in very dangereus position, like a freekick in 17m or there is a foul and they are not sure if the player is going to get the red card etc. 17 seconds is not that long if for example there were few corners, a player fouled and injured near the goal etc.

what pinnacle needs to do is make these bets transparent. and, yes, I had winning and losing bets cancelled at sbobet, 12bet or 188bet after the goal was scored

[moonbeam]

I agree with this pjesnik, that´s the reason I don´t play with this asian books very often.

But their 30 seconds "danger zone" delay in the end is much better than pinnacles way to accept a wager immediatly and cancelled it after a goal was scored

[moonbeam]

Originally Posted by Dr.Gonzo

Jimakos

Just to make it clear. If you complain about this you are most likley going to get paid with SBRs help.

BUT pinnacle will close your account.

Is $396 worth losing your account?

You decide.

Good point Dr. Gonzo

But there´s something wrong with Pinnacle in this case.

[jimakos]

The problem with pinnacle is that you never know when your bet will stand or not.
This is unacceptable for a sportsbook like pinnacle.
I was really happy with them but in this case they should pay me.
After all they could cancel the bet before accepting it, or they could withdraw the odds from livebetting (they do it on a penalty kick)!

[cristianbet]

Pinnacle is a very good bookie, never had problems with it

[Santo]

They will pay you if you make a fuss, and they will close your account. There's no debate on that.

[jimakos]

It's fine with me Santo. But if I were pinnacle I would even give bonus to player's like me in order to stay and place bets as 80% of my bets are lost.

[tachi]

Originally Posted by jimakos

The problem with pinnacle is that you never know when your bet will stand or not.
This is unacceptable for a sportsbook like pinnacle.
I was really happy with them but in this case they should pay me.
After all they could cancel the bet before accepting it, or they could withdraw the odds from livebetting (they do it on a penalty kick)!

after you have placed the bet you received a message: this wager is subject to deletion.
and 17 sec after that a goal was scored.

why they should pay you?because you won!!!

Pinnacle must change something in the live betting section,but this bet is correctly cancelled.I have waited over a minute for a bet to be confirmed at asians.
These are the rules.No one wants to give you any advantage.

[PAPSMEAR]

biggest load of shit i've ever heard. danger zone. what will these stiffs think of next to fleece money out of the public. it's a great scam for them. you win they refund the bet. you lose they keep the loot. the danger zone is betting with these flee bags. i take the point though if you cant trust pinnacle who can you trust to do the right thing.

[tachi]

Originally Posted by jimakos

It's fine with me Santo. But if I were pinnacle I would even give bonus to player's like me in order to stay and place bets as 80% of my bets are lost.

where you will go?

[Thremp]

This is pretty brutal scamtarding IMO.

[Santo]

Originally Posted by PAPSMEAR

biggest load of shit i've ever heard. danger zone. what will these stiffs think of next to fleece money out of the public. it's a great scam for them. you win they refund the bet. you lose they keep the loot. the danger zone is betting with these flee bags. i take the point though if you cant trust pinnacle who can you trust to do the right thing.

Except that if you lose they also cancel. This has been evidenced many times.

[Mikelo]

Pinny is definitely not a book for live soccer betting IMO. Betfair and asians have way better live software.

[Thremp]

Originally Posted by Santo

Except that if you lose they also cancel. This has been evidenced many times.

There is no evidence that what they're doing is symmetrical though. (Nor can there be) I'm also unsure of how vague the wording is. What exactly is a "danger zone"? How do they define this? Could I avoid having wagers canceled if I intentionally avoided these circumstances 100% of the time?

[durito]

Originally Posted by Thremp

There is no evidence that what they're doing is symmetrical though. (Nor can there be) I'm also unsure of how vague the wording is. What exactly is a "danger zone"? How do they define this? Could I avoid having wagers canceled if I intentionally avoided these circumstances 100% of the time?

Read moonbeams thread. The danger zone is supposed to somehow imply a team with some sort of advantage towards scoring. However, pinnacle puts this message up for almost every single bet, even if the game is at half time.

[siabdo23]

I agree with the above that sticking with pregame betting is hassle free