[PerpetualTraveller]

I played on the Yankees under 16.5 +136 at Pinnacle, then 19 minutes later after 2 runs were scored they decided to cancel it because of an "incorrect line". The difference in line would not have made any difference as to win or loss, only how much they would have to pay out. At the very least they should grade the wager at the correct line instead of cancelling after I have already won!

Is this normal on Live Betting? If so, I am stopping Live Betting play at Pinny because the next time I win they are going to cancel it saying the line was incorrect. Pinny is going downhill in my opinion. When is the US going to let bloody yanks bet so a challenger can replace Pinny!

[rangerz2478]

What was the score and inning when the bet was placed? I'm assuming it was 14-1 top 8 and it should have been 15.5 at +136. In that case, they handled it EXACTLY as they should have. You got an extra run on the line that late in the game.

This is all besides the fact I'm not quite sure WHY you are complaining as the final score was 16-1...

[rangerz2478]

I played on the Yankees under 16.5 +136 at Pinnacle, then 19 minutes later after 2 runs were scored they decided to cancel it because of an "incorrect line". The difference in line would not have made any difference as to win or loss, only how much they would have to pay out. At the very least they should grade the wager at the correct line instead of cancelling after I have already won!

Is this normal on Live Betting? If so, I am stopping Live Betting play at Pinny because the next time I win they are going to cancel it saying the line was incorrect. Pinny is going downhill in my opinion. When is the US going to let bloody yanks bet so a challenger can replace Pinny!

Umm...

16+1=....

[rangerz2478]

Wait, did you think you had YANKEES TEAM total under 16.5?!?!? Lol please tell me no.

[PerpetualTraveller]

SORRY for my mistake and the confusion. I had the OVER 16.5 in the top of the 8th at +136. The score was 14-1 so I do not see how this was a "gross error". I play only two live lines Pinny and Cris, both were 16.5 Cris was +106 Pinny was +136. Not uncommon for lines to be that far apart. I could have scalped it the other way as happens in many games.

How can anyone place a live bet without being sure the bet won't be cancelled because the line was off a little. Of course if Rangerz2478 stated if it was 15.5 then absolutely it should have been cancelled, even if it was 16 it should have been cancelled but at 16.5 it did not affect whether it was a win or a loss, just the amount of the payout, so why not adjust the payout instead of cancelling it after it won.

Cancelling a bet after it won makes it look bad!

[rangerz2478]

SORRY for my mistake and the confusion. I had the OVER 16.5 in the top of the 8th at +136. The score was 14-1 so I do not see how this was a "gross error". I play only two live lines Pinny and Cris, both were 16.5 Cris was +106 Pinny was +136. Not uncommon for lines to be that far apart. I could have scalped it the other way as happens in many games.

How can anyone place a live bet without being sure the bet won't be cancelled because the line was off a little. Of course if Rangerz2478 stated if it was 15.5 then absolutely it should have been cancelled, even if it was 16 it should have been cancelled but at 16.5 it did not affect whether it was a win or a loss, just the amount of the payout, so why not adjust the payout instead of cancelling it after it won.

Cancelling a bet after it won makes it look bad!

First off, that cris live bet you were referring to was 16 at +106. If you are telling the truth, 16.5 at +136 top 8 doesn't seem like that bad of a line. 1.5 runs with 1.5 innings to play at +136 sounds pretty fair. Tough to tell if you are telling the truth here though, but if you are then you may have a case. Did they say what the proper line should have been? I do baseball ingames nightly, but I have yet to see a book post a line with 1.5 runs and 1.5 innings left. They usually post over/under 0.5 at small plus, or 1 juiced under.

[rangerz2478]

One way or another I am assuming Pinny meant 15.5 (maybe intended for the bottom of the 8th)

The 16.5 sounds like a mistake that ironically turned into a fair line. (if you really bet it top 8)

Odd situation here. Something about the story doesn't add up.

[PerpetualTraveller]

They definitely did not mean 15.5 since I had the over if it was 15.5 I would have bet as much as I could on it. I am not perfect but I am sure I saw 16.5 at both, if it had been 16 I would have bet huge as well.

My problem is that they do not define Gross Error. If it affects whether a win or lose, then yes Gross error since they could not survive people middling all the time.

6:49pm 19-Apr-14

19-Apr-14

Baseball Total

New York Yankees/Tampa Bay Rays (O 16.5) for Game.

+136

735.29

Canc

I could also see a Gross error if it was supposed to be -200 but was posted as +200. However, if they get too much action on one side of a game they could always claim it was a gross error and cancel bets if the game goes against them. I also don't want Pinny to go out of business, so they could easily adjust the payout but even that would be sketchy since obviously someone played the Under. They said all bets were cancelled but would not provide anything that would verify it.

Not sure what doesn't add up, if you let me know what exactly it is that doesn't make sense I will try to provide more detail.

I know I am never going to win my case with Pinny, I just want the rule to be state more clearly since any line movement could be claimed as a Gross error and that was why the line moved when it really had nothing to do with it being an error just a lot of action on one side.

[rangerz2478]

It's pointless to speculate on what they INTENDED to post, but as someone who does this nightly, I am telling you a book posting a 16.5 in that spot is very odd. In a 14-1 top 8 game, it will either be 15.5 or 16, not 16.5. As someone who would kill for pinny access but doesn't have it, I can't tell you what they posted, but I CAN tell you what cris posted and it was 16.

[rangerz2478]

I just don't understand what would make you say you'd be "huge" on it. Normally in that spot you can get 15.5, and you are saying you would have been huge at both 16 and 16.5? This is the part that doesn't add up to me.

[rangerz2478]

I do agree with your "gross error" points though. Live betting unfortunately presents many scenarios like this one where it's tough to win your case. I would ask pinny for the exact line they MEANT to post.

[PerpetualTraveller]

Rangerz2478 I think you missed my post when I apologized for my mistake and the confusion that I wrote under, but that should have been OVER. So if I bet at over 16.5, the I would have bet even more for a half or full run less. Both CRIS and Pinny give totals through the entire game even in the 9th but then it is only a half run so in this case 15.5. Going into the last half of an inning it is generally Over +300.

Again, I just hate the ambiguity of the rule "Gross Error" or "Obviously Bad Line" There is no way over 16.5 in the top of the 8th in a 14-1 game is Obvious or Gross so how can I ever make a bet without worrying about it. Also if they knew it was a bad line, why wait 19 minutes and after the wager was decided. I can send an email in less than 10 seconds.

[PerpetualTraveller]

I do agree with your "gross error" points though. Live betting unfortunately presents many scenarios like this one where it's tough to win your case. I would ask pinny for the exact line they MEANT to post.

Thank you, I will! I'll post anything I hear back. Thanks for listening to me bitch.

[rangerz2478]

I saw where you corrected it from under to over, don't worry. You are right about the +300 in the last half inning, but something still seems odd. GL getting what you need from Pinny, and no problem on the listening part. As someone who basically only plays live, these types of issues always are of interest to me.

[PerpetualTraveller]

I play Live almost exclusively as well since it is easier to find advantages, but now I'm worried those advantages will be taken as an "Obviously Bad" line and then cancelled. That is what is so frustrating.

[allin1]

By their standards what is the definition of a correct line?

Would they cancel bets on "incorrect lines" if they would have made a profit on that market?

[Brooklyn Dick]

Live lines are the opinion of the person making them. Different people make different lines. Many times they are completely at odds with one another. This is not a BAD line, just different perspectives

No book should cancel a wager that won already unless it is a real error, like a wrong favorite, etc. If they want to cancel the bet it has to be right away. After all they should know when the bets come in if they made a mistake. Not when they grade the bet.

Books just do it because they can. If it lost there is no chance it would be cancelled.

[dirtdog52658]

They need to honor this bet. This was not a gross error or played after the fact. Below is pinnacles Live line history for the yankees yesterday, As Pinnacle offers more than one line the 16.5 is not listed on this list but based on what is listed you can tell that the 16.5 over +juice late in the game was a legit bet. More than 10 minutes after this bet was placed they were using 15.5 over -117 therefore Past Posting can be ruled out.


04/19 05:32:00pm #<wbr>9975YANKEES9½o13
04/19 05:34:01pm #9975YANKEES
04/19 05:44:52pm #9975YANKEES10o18
04/19 05:47:37pm #9975YANKEES
04/19 06:06:14pm #9975YANKEES13½o28
04/19 06:06:55pm #9975YANKEES13½o31
04/19 06:09:18pm #9975YANKEES
04/19 06:15:53pm #9975YANKEES13½o28
04/19 06:16:25pm #9975YANKEES13½u22
04/19 06:18:16pm #9975YANKEES
04/19 06:49:04pm #9975YANKEES16o13
04/19 06:50:00pm #9975YANKEES16o15
04/19 06:50:14pm #9975YANKEES16o18
04/19 06:50:24pm #9975YANKEES16o20
04/19 06:51:21pm #9975YANKEES16o22
04/19 06:51:31pm #9975YANKEES
04/19 06:59:30pm #9975YANKEES15½o17
04/19 06:59:44pm #9975YANKEES15½o25
04/19 06:59:50pm #9975YANKEES15½o34
04/19 07:00:02pm #9975YANKEES
04/19 07:00:21pm #9975YANKEES15½o34
04/19 07:00:31pm #9975YANKEES15½o39
04/19 07:00:51pm #9975YANKEES

[jjgold]

Does not seem like a bad line too me

keep pressure on book

[allin1]

Live lines are the opinion of the person making them. Different people make different lines. Many times they are completely at odds with one another. This is not a BAD line, just different perspectives

No book should cancel a wager that won already unless it is a real error, like a wrong favorite, etc. If they want to cancel the bet it has to be right away. After all they should know when the bets come in if they made a mistake. Not when they grade the bet.

Books just do it because they can. If it lost there is no chance it would be cancelled.

Good post.

No integrity from the bookmakers and apparently not even from Pinny.

[relaaxx]

doesn't seem like a bad line. i had a bet cancelled for +110 and the book said it should have been -130. i tried to argue that the line was not bad enough not to be honored. was told that it was still a bad line. makes it difficult. but it comes with live betting. sportsbooks should honor all but the obvious bad lines. i would try to reason with them. but don't be a pain in the ass. good luck if you try.

[alexwalstow]

Pinny really becoming a joke book recently with the 5 x deposit rollover and now this.

[PerpetualTraveller]

This was the reply:

As per our Linesmen Department, the line you wagered on was incorrect and your wager was cancelled in accordance with our rules..

You played over 16.5 +136, when the price should have been about -200.

Has any line for last 1.5 inning been over 1.5 runs and -200?!?!? I would have bet the under if it would have been +170 under for last 1.5 innings and 1.5 runs.

I didn't expect to get my wager changed but did expect to get a reasonable reply not BS.

[dirtdog52658]

This was the reply:

As per our Linesmen Department, the line you wagered on was incorrect and your wager was cancelled in accordance with our rules..

You played over 16.5 +136, when the price should have been about -200.

Has any line for last 1.5 inning been over 1.5 runs and -200?!?!? I would have bet the under if it would have been +170 under for last 1.5 innings and 1.5 runs.

I didn't expect to get my wager changed but did expect to get a reasonable reply not BS.

I did some furthur research into a couple other places yesterday. They really need to define gross error. I believe there is a possibility they flipped their juice on the total at that moment but thats part of the game its not like they threw 10.5 out there or something. I hope you can come to some sort of resolution with them, definitely starting to color my opinion of them. Here are the line historys from CRIS and BetOnline yesterday. As you can see these places at that moment were sitting at about 16.5 over -130 to -140.

CRIS

04/19 05:18:05pm		#9975	YANKEES	8½u25
04/19 05:20:23pm		#9975	YANKEES
04/19 05:20:23pm		#9976	RAYS
04/19 05:31:12pm		#9975	YANKEES	9½o22
04/19 05:33:40pm		#9975	YANKEES
04/19 05:44:43pm		#9975	YANKEES	10½u23
04/19 05:47:00pm		#9975	YANKEES
04/19 06:06:03pm		#9975	YANKEES	14u26
04/19 06:08:33pm		#9975	YANKEES
04/19 06:15:37pm		#9975	YANKEES	13½u26
04/19 06:16:21pm		#9975	YANKEES
04/19 06:16:45pm		#9975	YANKEES	13½u26
04/19 06:18:11pm		#9975	YANKEES
04/19 06:49:13pm		#9975	YANKEES	16½o26
04/19 06:49:54pm		#9975	YANKEES
04/19 07:08:29pm		#9975	YANKEES	16u43
04/19 07:09:17pm		#9975	YANKEES
04/19 07:13:21pm		#9975	YANKEES	15½u30

BetOnline

04/19 06:26:24pm #9975YANKEES14u15
04/19 06:27:58pm #9975YANKEES
04/19 06:29:39pm #9975YANKEES15u15
04/19 06:31:51pm #9975YANKEES
04/19 06:33:03pm #9975YANKEES16½u30
04/19 06:34:39pm #9975YANKEES
04/19 06:40:43pm #9975YANKEES16½u30
04/19 06:40:55pm #9975YANKEES
04/19 06:42:30pm #9975YANKEES16½o40
04/19 06:43:16pm #9975YANKEES
04/19 06:43:20pm #9975YANKEES16½o40
04/19 06:43:21pm #9975YANKEES
04/19 06:43:54pm #9975YANKEES16½o40
04/19 06:44:04pm #9975YANKEES16½o45
04/19 06:44:51pm #9975YANKEES
04/19 06:46:42pm #9975YANKEES17½o45
04/19 06:48:48pm #9975YANKEES
04/19 06:49:43pm #9975YANKEES16½o30
04/19 06:50:12pm #9975YANKEES16½o25
04/19 06:50:37pm #9975YANKEES
04/19 06:50:54pm #9975YANKEES16½o25
04/19 06:52:26pm #9975YANKEES16½o30
04/19 06:52:47pm #9975YANKEES
04/19 06:53:30pm #9975YANKEES16½o45
04/19 06:53:38pm #9975YANKEES16½o40
04/19 06:54:37pm #9975YANKEES
04/19 06:56:33pm #9975YANKEES16½o45
04/19 06:59:00pm #9975YANKEES
04/19 06:59:59pm #<wbr>9975YANKEES15½o35
04/19 07:01:31pm #9975YANKEES
04/19 07:05:23pm #9975YANKEES15½o30
04/19 07:05:34pm #9975YANKEES

[PerpetualTraveller]

THANK YOU FOR POSTING!! Those lines help a lot. It does look like it was supposed to be -136 not +136 and I never thought I would get the wager changed. However, when they BS and say the line should have been -200 that is just crazy!!!!!

[rangerz2478]

This was the reply:

As per our Linesmen Department, the line you wagered on was incorrect and your wager was cancelled in accordance with our rules..

You played over 16.5 +136, when the price should have been about -200.

Has any line for last 1.5 inning been over 1.5 runs and -200?!?!? I would have bet the under if it would have been +170 under for last 1.5 innings and 1.5 runs.

I didn't expect to get my wager changed but did expect to get a reasonable reply not BS.

-200 top 8? That would sound to me like the top 7 price. -200 with 2.5 innings left makes sense.

[rangerz2478]

I did some furthur research into a couple other places yesterday. They really need to define gross error. I believe there is a possibility they flipped their juice on the total at that moment but thats part of the game its not like they threw 10.5 out there or something. I hope you can come to some sort of resolution with them, definitely starting to color my opinion of them. Here are the line historys from CRIS and BetOnline yesterday. As you can see these places at that moment were sitting at about 16.5 over -130 to -140.

CRIS

04/19 05:18:05pm		#9975	YANKEES	8½u25
04/19 05:20:23pm		#9975	YANKEES
04/19 05:20:23pm		#9976	RAYS
04/19 05:31:12pm		#9975	YANKEES	9½o22
04/19 05:33:40pm		#9975	YANKEES
04/19 05:44:43pm		#9975	YANKEES	10½u23
04/19 05:47:00pm		#9975	YANKEES
04/19 06:06:03pm		#9975	YANKEES	14u26
04/19 06:08:33pm		#9975	YANKEES
04/19 06:15:37pm		#9975	YANKEES	13½u26
04/19 06:16:21pm		#9975	YANKEES
04/19 06:16:45pm		#9975	YANKEES	13½u26
04/19 06:18:11pm		#9975	YANKEES
04/19 06:49:13pm		#9975	YANKEES	16½o26
04/19 06:49:54pm		#9975	YANKEES
04/19 07:08:29pm		#9975	YANKEES	16u43
04/19 07:09:17pm		#9975	YANKEES
04/19 07:13:21pm		#9975	YANKEES	15½u30

BetOnline

04/19 06:26:24pm #9975YANKEES14u15
04/19 06:27:58pm #9975YANKEES
04/19 06:29:39pm #9975YANKEES15u15
04/19 06:31:51pm #9975YANKEES
04/19 06:33:03pm #9975YANKEES16½u30
04/19 06:34:39pm #9975YANKEES
04/19 06:40:43pm #9975YANKEES16½u30
04/19 06:40:55pm #9975YANKEES
04/19 06:42:30pm #9975YANKEES16½o40
04/19 06:43:16pm #9975YANKEES
04/19 06:43:20pm #9975YANKEES16½o40
04/19 06:43:21pm #9975YANKEES
04/19 06:43:54pm #9975YANKEES16½o40
04/19 06:44:04pm #9975YANKEES16½o45
04/19 06:44:51pm #9975YANKEES
04/19 06:46:42pm #9975YANKEES17½o45
04/19 06:48:48pm #9975YANKEES
04/19 06:49:43pm #9975YANKEES16½o30
04/19 06:50:12pm #9975YANKEES16½o25
04/19 06:50:37pm #9975YANKEES
04/19 06:50:54pm #9975YANKEES16½o25
04/19 06:52:26pm #9975YANKEES16½o30
04/19 06:52:47pm #9975YANKEES
04/19 06:53:30pm #9975YANKEES16½o45
04/19 06:53:38pm #9975YANKEES16½o40
04/19 06:54:37pm #9975YANKEES
04/19 06:56:33pm #9975YANKEES16½o45
04/19 06:59:00pm #9975YANKEES
04/19 06:59:59pm #9975YANKEES15½o35
04/19 07:01:31pm #9975YANKEES
04/19 07:05:23pm #9975YANKEES15½o30
04/19 07:05:34pm #9975YANKEES

Is there a way of seeing what inning these lines were live? Cause I am 100% sure the 16.5 -140 was NOT top 8. Was following both sites from bottom 7 on. My guess is the 16.5's were top 7. Something is off here.

[dirtdog52658]

Is there a way of seeing what inning these lines were live? Cause I am 100% sure the 16.5 -140 was NOT top 8. Was following both sites from bottom 7 on. My guess is the 16.5's were top 7. Something is off here.

Game lasted 3:15 and started at 4:10. so ended at 7:25. Average of 20 minutes an inning. So yeah these are probably entering the 8th inning.

[PerpetualTraveller]

Last update. I was checking lines with 1.5 innings to go and the over 1.5 more runs. Every game was in the very low -100s or +100s.

After sending that to Pinnacle, the resolved the issue by grading the wager at -125 instead of the +136. Though I still think the line was closer to +100 I don't want to push the issue any further. I am not someone who hates books and wants to put them out of business, if they went out of business I would be screwed since no local guy is going to give me live lines. However, cancelling bets after the won is not a way to do business because I would never play live lines again if they did that.

Thanks for all who posted!!

[lecubs28]

good to see they resolved this in a somewhat fair manner

[horja1]

this is looking worse and worse for pinny...

i look forward to seeing their next response.

have you filed an sbr complaint?

[dirtdog52658]

Last update. I was checking lines with 1.5 innings to go and the over 1.5 more runs. Every game was in the very low -100s or +100s.

After sending that to Pinnacle, the resolved the issue by grading the wager at -125 instead of the +136. Though I still think the line was closer to +100 I don't want to push the issue any further. I am not someone who hates books and wants to put them out of business, if they went out of business I would be screwed since no local guy is going to give me live lines. However, cancelling bets after the won is not a way to do business because I would never play live lines again if they did that.

Thanks for all who posted!!

Glad to hear they sorted it out for you. I think being paid at -125 is fair.

[rangerz2478]

Game lasted 3:15 and started at 4:10. so ended at 7:25. Average of 20 minutes an inning. So yeah these are probably entering the 8th inning.

I followed both and neither had 16.5 entering the 8th, this I can guarantee. Can't use the average of an inning to determine this. Ballpark yea, but definitely can't be exact.

[rangerz2478]

Last update. I was checking lines with 1.5 innings to go and the over 1.5 more runs. Every game was in the very low -100s or +100s.

After sending that to Pinnacle, the resolved the issue by grading the wager at -125 instead of the +136. Though I still think the line was closer to +100 I don't want to push the issue any further. I am not someone who hates books and wants to put them out of business, if they went out of business I would be screwed since no local guy is going to give me live lines. However, cancelling bets after the won is not a way to do business because I would never play live lines again if they did that.

Thanks for all who posted!!

Wow awesome. It really seems like they put out a line they made a mistake on, but ironically it ended up being close to a fair line. Nice to hear they paid you.

[jjgold]

good conclusion..Pinny the best