[Hareeba!]

I should probably have been a bit more specific with the question.

I shall continue to use Pinnacle to the extent of my current balance but I shall not be making any further deposits as long as the current Rule 30 is in force.

So please interpret the question as "Will you make any further deposits to Pinnacle under the current condition?"

[dealer wins]

I shall continue to use Pinnacle to the extent of my current balance but I shall not be making any further deposits as long as the current Rule 30 is in force.

This is what I will be doing as well. I voted no.

[noyb]

i really don't care, so i vote yes. i'm not going to drop my most important book by far simply because they want me to rollover my money a few times.

(plus there's an obvious, though not ideal, way around this rule if you really want to. i'm sure some of you thought of this).

[Hareeba!]

i really don't care, so i vote yes. i'm not going to drop my most important book by far simply because they want me to rollover my money a few times.

(plus there's an obvious, though not ideal, way around this rule if you really want to. i'm sure some of you thought of this).

I've thought of a few things but given the contradictory responses from Pinnacle I can't be confident of anything.

Don't hold back, let's have the "obvious ... way around this rule"

[noyb]

use a broker

[Hareeba!]

use a broker

So brokers aren't subject to this?

Certainly that thought never occurred to me.

I've no idea, never used nor needed to use a broker and very much doubt I ever will.

[noyb]

as i said, it's not ideal, but it's either one or the other imo. it's difficult for me to understand how someone who depends on his income from gambling can even consider taking the high road and dropping pinny. i need them so much more than they need me, i'm amazed that doesn't apply to all of us who don't bet just for fun.

[jjgold]

It could be a cost issue with the rollover

Does anyone know a good explanation?

[Hareeba!]

as i said, it's not ideal, but it's either one or the other imo. it's difficult for me to understand how someone who depends on his income from gambling can even consider taking the high road and dropping pinny. i need them so much more than they need me, i'm amazed that doesn't apply to all of us who don't bet just for fun.

Pinnacle certainly good to have on side but not sufficiently superior to other options to warrant incurring the additional new overhead.
My prime source of income is racing and Pinnacle don't even cover it!
And btw .. I certainly don't categorize what I do as "gambling"!

[kazuc]

I will continue to use Pinnacle because I have had other issues with Matchbook in the past that are far worse than any rollover issue, and I've personally found Pinnacle to be far and away the most professional and well-run book I've ever used. And I also don't withdraw that often anyway, so it's not a problem for me. (I can see how things would be different for some of you pros, so I'm just talking for myself).

[relaaxx]

only wish i could use them.

[katstale]

Would like SBR Admin position on this!

[lecubs28]

No fuckin way

they should have just targeted the customers they claim were "abusing the system"

instead this looks like a cash grab

GOODBYE PINNACLE

HELLO MATCHBOOK

[Bill Dozer]

Would like SBR Admin position on this!

This really impacts the guy who wants to get in for 20k, make one bet, and get out. Pinny likes the market traders just fine but cant be moving it in and out every time the guy spots a 20k scalp. The player can still do it but they don't want to pay his Skrill or eWhateverwallet and they decided they don't have to. Pinny doesn't want to pay fees because a player doesnt have confidence to keep a balance in or pay extra fees to keep a traders money liquid because they dont have enough to hold balances at all their outs. It's not to keep player money, its to keep from paying to move back and fourth.

When you get a cash bonus at any -110 book its a form of discount off the vig and usually there so you try it out. If the player likes the book during the rollover period he stays and 'rolls' balance over more because he wants to. 95% of Pinny players like the pricing and keep a balance in. The other 5% are not "rolling" anything and are in and out because they can. Most of that 5% is expected to adjust their habits. This is similar to a bonus change.

The effect of this are not good for player. It's going to suck for some but this in itself doesn't make Pinnacle weaker or lesser of a book. They look at it as money saved paying the hoppers keep the margins lower for the loyal regular guys.

[lecubs28]

keep the margins low for the loyal guys.

LOYALTY! Bill this isn't your neighborhood grocery store around the corner. There is no such thing as loyalty in the world of online bookies. How about your good buddy Bet Islands Jon? How did loyalty pay off there? Or Lenny?

Pinnacle is a faceless company in Curacao, if they think I'm going to keep 5 figures in my account out of "loyalty" then they're in for a surprise.

[allin1]

This really impacts the guy who wants to get in for 20k, make one bet, and get out. Pinny likes the market traders just fine but cant be moving it in and out every time the guy spots a 20k scalp. The player can still do it but they don't want to pay his Skrill or eWhateverwallet and they decided they don't have to. Pinny doesn't want to pay fees because a player doesnt have confidence to keep a balance in or pay extra fees to keep a traders money liquid because they dont have enough to hold balances at all their outs. It's not to keep player money, its to keep from paying to move back and fourth.

When you get a cash bonus at any -110 book its a form of discount off the vig and usually there so you try it out. If the player likes the book during the rollover period he stays and 'rolls' balance over more because he wants to. 95% of Pinny players like the pricing and keep a balance in. The other 5% are not "rolling" anything and are in and out because they can. Most of that 5% is expected to adjust their habits. This is similar to a bonus change.

The effect of this are not good for player. It's going to suck for some but this in itself doesn't make Pinnacle weaker or lesser of a book. They look at it as money saved paying the hoppers keep the margins lower for the loyal regular guys.

If those % are accurate then it makes sense.

[cloverfield]

LOYALTY! Bill this isn't your neighborhood grocery store around the corner. There is no such thing as loyalty in the world of online bookies. How about your good buddy Bet Islands Jon? How did loyalty pay off there? Or Lenny?

Pinnacle is a faceless company in Curacao, if they think I'm going to keep 5 figures in my account out of "loyalty" then they're in for a surprise.

You seem to have a lot of issues/dislike for a lot of books.

Just saying.

[lecubs28]

You seem to have a lot of issues/dislike for a lot of books.

Just saying.

it's just common sense that you wouldn't leave $15,000 in an online bookie account if you can't name one person at the head of the organization. way too shady. if you are betting 15k a day, then okay, maybe, but for people that deposit once, win a big bet, and want to withdraw some of their money, it's stupid to have a 5x rollover.

[Brooklyn Dick]

They can do whatever they want, but they need to tell the client when he deposits money the rules to take the money out. Not just make a rule and see who they can screw. If you know this upfront then the choice is yours.

As for their claim of low juice, for major events yes. But live lines and smaller sports no. Again, let the customer decide by pointing out your withdrawal rules. Not hide them under rule 30A or whatever it is. Before you accept a deposit you should tell the client this 3% rule and let him choose.

[TheMoneyShot]

Can't wait to see the end result to this. Doesn't look good.

[Brooklyn Dick]

I will expose another thing that most people on this board have no idea that Pinnacle does. When you make a parlay on ANY sport the line is adjusted against you no matter which side you play in the parlay. Anyone with an account there can see this by going to straight lines on any sport and making a notation of the numbers, then to go Parlay and see the difference. They are clipping you good on this one.

But hey, they are a low juice book so it is OK.

[allin1]

They can do whatever they want, but they need to tell the client when he deposits money the rules to take the money out. Not just make a rule and see who they can screw. If you know this upfront then the choice is yours.

As for their claim of low juice, for major events yes. But live lines and smaller sports no. Again, let the customer decide by pointing out your withdrawal rules. Not hide them under rule 30A or whatever it is. Before you accept a deposit you should tell the client this 3% rule and let him choose.

They can justify the change but they really can't justify the way they did it. Totally unprofessional and way too shady as someone described it. Sharps won't mind, though. They'll keep betting, it won't affect them, business as usual.

[allin1]

I will expose another thing that most people on this board have no idea that Pinnacle does. When you make a parlay on ANY sport the line is adjusted against you no matter which side you play in the parlay. Anyone with an account there can see this by going to straight lines on any sport and making a notation of the numbers, then to go Parlay and see the difference. They are clipping you good on this one.

But hey, they are a low juice book so it is OK.

Wow. I did not know about this one. Sounds like classic "dirty" offshore bookkeeping.

Can anyone confirm that BI john is not a good friend of pinny owners? just kidding... but you never know...

[Hareeba!]

I will expose another thing that most people on this board have no idea that Pinnacle does. When you make a parlay on ANY sport the line is adjusted against you no matter which side you play in the parlay. Anyone with an account there can see this by going to straight lines on any sport and making a notation of the numbers, then to go Parlay and see the difference. They are clipping you good on this one.

But hey, they are a low juice book so it is OK.

yes, I discovered that years ago and have questioned them about it as I know some books offer enhanced odds to encourage parlay taking

but in reality Pinnacle's parlay odds still beat the opposition more often than not so I don't have too much of a problem with it ... not that I'm a parlay taker very often anyway

[Bill Dozer]

They can justify the change but they really can't justify the way they did it. Totally unprofessional and way too shady as someone described it. Sharps won't mind, though. They'll keep betting, it won't affect them, business as usual.

They could have rolled it out better. I havent seen anyone who wanted in and out in April that has been burned by it. As we can see from the thread, exceptions are being made for at least some players who said they werent aware.

They can do whatever they want, but they need to tell the client when he deposits money the rules to take the money out. Not just make a rule and see who they can screw. If you know this upfront then the choice is yours.

Agree. I would expect they will update that.

I will expose another thing that most people on this board have no idea that Pinnacle does. When you make a parlay on ANY sport the line is adjusted against you no matter which side you play in the parlay. Anyone with an account there can see this by going to straight lines on any sport and making a notation of the numbers, then to go Parlay and see the difference. They are clipping you good on this one.
But hey, they are a low juice book so it is OK.

BD, Pinnacle books exotics at -110. No reduced juice on parlays. Is that what you are seein?

[Brooklyn Dick]

	Philadelphia Phillies C. Lee	-1.5 +180	-122 C. Lee must start	Under 7.5 -125
Thu 4/10	907	New York Mets J. Mejia	+1.5 -184	+119 J. Mejia must start	Over 7.5 -104
04:10 PM	908	Atlanta Braves D. Hale	-1.5 +162	-135

Milwaukee Brewers M. Estrada			+111 M. Estrada must start
04:05 PM	906	Philadelphia Phillies C. Lee			-120 C. Lee must start
Live!
Thu 4/10	907	New York Mets J. Mejia			+122 J. Mejia must start
04:10 PM	908	Atlanta Braves D. Hale			-132

FIRST IS PARLAY SECOND IS STRAIGHT See what I mean? -120 on Phila str. -122 Parlay
-132 At. str. -135 Parlay

[Bill Dozer]

It's hard to tell without seeing the opposing teams but yea thats because Pinnacle has a 10c line for their ML baseball up to a certain amount. They graduate with the disparity of teams so its hard to tell whats going on but parlays will always be their full juice rate.

[Hareeba!]

They could have rolled it out better. I havent seen anyone who wanted in and out in April that has been burned by it. As we can see from the thread, exceptions are being made for at least some players who said they werent aware.

So you haven't read Real1992's posts then?

[LT Profits]

I will expose another thing that most people on this board have no idea that Pinnacle does. When you make a parlay on ANY sport the line is adjusted against you no matter which side you play in the parlay. Anyone with an account there can see this by going to straight lines on any sport and making a notation of the numbers, then to go Parlay and see the difference. They are clipping you good on this one.

But hey, they are a low juice book so it is OK.

That's because reduced juice is only for straight bets, that is not uncommon. And their 16-cent parlay lines are still better than the 20-cent standard.

[Brooklyn Dick]

It's hard to tell without seeing the opposing teams but yea thats because Pinnacle has a 10c line for their ML baseball up to a certain amount. They graduate with the disparity of teams so its hard to tell whats going on but parlays will always be their full juice rate.

BOTH teams lines are worse than the straight lines. I am sure you can check for yourself, but this is what it is. Not only BB lines.

[LT Profits]

BOTH teams lines are worse than the straight lines. I am sure you can check for yourself, but this is what it is. Not only BB lines.

Right because parlays are "full" juice. I say "full" because Pinny's "full" is usually still less than standard. In your example for games in the -130s, straight bets are dime-line, parlay is 16-cents, ergo added 3 cents to each team.

[bigcash]

This really impacts the guy who wants to get in for 20k, make one bet, and get out. Pinny likes the market traders just fine but cant be moving it in and out every time the guy spots a 20k scalp. The player can still do it but they don't want to pay his Skrill or eWhateverwallet and they decided they don't have to. Pinny doesn't want to pay fees because a player doesnt have confidence to keep a balance in or pay extra fees to keep a traders money liquid because they dont have enough to hold balances at all their outs. It's not to keep player money, its to keep from paying to move back and fourth.

When you get a cash bonus at any -110 book its a form of discount off the vig and usually there so you try it out. If the player likes the book during the rollover period he stays and 'rolls' balance over more because he wants to. 95% of Pinny players like the pricing and keep a balance in. The other 5% are not "rolling" anything and are in and out because they can. Most of that 5% is expected to adjust their habits. This is similar to a bonus change.

The effect of this are not good for player. It's going to suck for some but this in itself doesn't make Pinnacle weaker or lesser of a book. They look at it as money saved paying the hoppers keep the margins lower for the loyal regular guys.

It does not give me sense any of these words. If only 5% of bad behaviour customers can ruin business Pinnacle can easily kick them out.

If Pinnacle does not like 20k deposit they should reduce deposit allowance. On the other hand 20k deposit and rollover with 5 times is not problem for such not "rolling" anything who are in and out. And this rule of 5 times rollover would not scary them. But locking funds with 5 times rollover damages mainly low size deposit customers who need money whenever they win.

However such rule Pinnacle introduced will scary any customer low and high rollers. Honestly if there is no such rule I would play any my deposit several times and I am one of that high depositor who is having million of eur in wager turnovers after my deposit within Sunday or Saturday. Anyway I would still need independent decision for withdrawal free of charge whenever I need withdraw funds. Under this circumstances I doubt that customers feel their funds is safer with pinnacle now then before.

Let me know why pinnacle simply does not get rid of that 5% of customers.

I would say they have lost some external income last days and this rule should just full their pocket. Introducing 3% on withdrawal whenever they pay 2,8% to skrill processing deposit and very low cost of withdrawal gives clear picture something is wrong with the company. (For Neteller it is 2,3% and no cost for processing withdrawal. Let me correct whenever I am wrong) It is not enough Pinnacle makes profit on their juice but they simply make another 0,2% whenever customer used Skrill and 0,7% when it is Neteller deposit + that % on wagered volume. So they must love customers with any action also without introducing that rules of 5 times rollover.

[jjgold]

A scalper doesn't make one 20k bet and withdraw the money

Secondly the other side there's no such thing as a $20,000 wager at 99% of books they don't take that type of action

Most non-pinnacle books take 2000 tops on most arming situations when the weak side hits a few times in a row your band anyway

[dance1959]

Basically they are strong arming players to lose money.
If you deposit 20000 and bet Real or Barca at -1000 you can withdraw 21400 and its like you bet 30% lower odd at your team.
Or you can try rolling over 5 times your 20000,and you can lose them all.
Pinnacle once was best,not anymore.

[jjgold]

Does anyone really make one wager and then withdraw?

Is it a common practice?