1. #246
    allin1
    Update your status
    allin1's Avatar Become A Pro!
    Join Date: 11-07-11
    Posts: 4,555

    Quote Originally Posted by PassTheDutchie View Post
    I have heard pinnacle did just fine last year financially, so this has nothing to do with them being in trouble. This has everything to do with management fine tuning their business model.
    Maybe pinnacle as a business doesn't have financial problems but maybe the owners have.

  2. #247
    PassTheDutchie
    PassTheDutchie's Avatar Become A Pro!
    Join Date: 02-05-13
    Posts: 66
    Betpoints: 1320

    Quote Originally Posted by allin1 View Post
    Maybe pinnacle as a business doesn't have financial problems but maybe the owners have.
    No, that's not it. None of the major owners is still actively involved in day to day operations.

    Even if, on a personal level, they wanted or needed more money, selling their shares would be a much better option than trying to squeeze some extra money out of their business. You are talking about a business that probably cut away between 60 and 80% of their business when they choose to leave the us market. They paid every player they owed and probably got screwed by a lot of credit players that owed them money. If anything they have shown to have enough financial means.

    Coming back to the why. It is my opinion that pinnacle has become more dependent on their post up business after leaving the USA market. Before they were making most of their money in the credit business. At that time the processing fees on post up just did not receive attention from management.

    now post up has become a bigger piece of their business the processing fees has become focus of management.

    i do feel that the introduction of the rule was sloppy and badly communicated. They could have avoided a lot of trouble if they had done a better job in the announcement.

    but then again, their strong point have been manage risk, not communication.

  3. #248
    jjgold
    jjgold's Avatar Become A Pro!
    Join Date: 07-20-05
    Posts: 388,190
    Betpoints: 10

    Men lets see how this plays out, maybe Pinny makes some adjustments down the road.

  4. #249
    moron
    moron's Avatar Become A Pro!
    Join Date: 06-26-11
    Posts: 5
    Betpoints: 114

    Pretty clear that pinnacle had too many guys depositing and withdrawing funds while only rolling over their funds once. How can pinny make any money with their low margins off these guys with the costs incurred by the e-wallets?

  5. #250
    jjgold
    jjgold's Avatar Become A Pro!
    Join Date: 07-20-05
    Posts: 388,190
    Betpoints: 10

    moron good post...they still want to give customer great lines and no limiting therefore changing policy a little on withdrawals. Minor issue for all positives book offers.

  6. #251
    spider
    spider's Avatar Become A Pro!
    Join Date: 05-21-11
    Posts: 11,378
    Betpoints: 46953

    request payout at 11:00 am.
    processed and confirmed at 11:05 am.
    funds in skrill at 11:15 am
    funds in my pocket at 11:16 am. (from atm)
    CASE CLOSED.

    actually they should be charging more than 3% for this kind of service.

  7. #252
    Antibet
    Antibet's Avatar Become A Pro!
    Join Date: 10-30-09
    Posts: 1,688
    Betpoints: 1565

    Geez, no MLB parlays, and now they want my $200 for withdrawal

  8. #253
    moron
    moron's Avatar Become A Pro!
    Join Date: 06-26-11
    Posts: 5
    Betpoints: 114

    MLB parlays seem to work fine. Guessing you may be trying to parlay same game in MLB. Home team/under, away team/over?

  9. #254
    biggie12
    biggie12's Avatar SBR PRO
    Join Date: 12-30-05
    Posts: 13,443
    Betpoints: 983

    love the hidden spam in some of the posts here.

  10. #255
    OTL
    OTL's Avatar Become A Pro!
    Join Date: 03-08-10
    Posts: 2,433
    Betpoints: 5277

    It's not that bad. If you read rule #30 you can still withdraw your funds any time you want, they just charge a 3% processing fee if you don't first complete a 5x rollover. This is to protect them from excessive transaction fees by arbers that shift money around a lot.

    Don't see what the big deal is here.

  11. #256
    Hareeba!
    Hareeba!'s Avatar Become A Pro!
    Join Date: 07-01-06
    Posts: 33,098
    Betpoints: 20363

    Quote Originally Posted by OTL View Post
    It's not that bad. If you read rule #30 you can still withdraw your funds any time you want, they just charge a 3% processing fee if you don't first complete a 5x rollover. This is to protect them from excessive transaction fees by arbers that shift money around a lot.

    Don't see what the big deal is here.
    suggest you read what they did to Real1992

    I have no sympathy for the arbers who deposit, make one bet and withdraw but Pinnacle has itself to blame for openly encouraging arb business and now they hit the genuine players when all they needed to do was slug the arbuses with the fee.
    Last edited by Hareeba!; 04-15-14 at 04:47 PM.

  12. #257
    dealer wins
    dealer wins's Avatar Become A Pro!
    Join Date: 02-03-09
    Posts: 816
    Betpoints: 11819

    Quote Originally Posted by moron View Post
    Pretty clear that pinnacle had too many guys depositing and withdrawing funds while only rolling over their funds once. How can pinny make any money with their low margins off these guys with the costs incurred by the e-wallets?
    I cant see that they would have many players only depositing and withdrawing once a month? Arbers will be using Pinnacle many times a week!!

  13. #258
    Hareeba!
    Hareeba!'s Avatar Become A Pro!
    Join Date: 07-01-06
    Posts: 33,098
    Betpoints: 20363

    Quote Originally Posted by dealer wins View Post
    ... Arbers will be using Pinnacle many times a week!!
    No longer I would think.

  14. #259
    faststeady
    faststeady's Avatar Become A Pro!
    Join Date: 07-28-08
    Posts: 196
    Betpoints: 7820

    arbers generally lose at pinnie side over the long run so it wont affect that much . arbers are also good at money management so unlikely to get stuck with all their funds in pinnie

  15. #260
    jjgold
    jjgold's Avatar Become A Pro!
    Join Date: 07-20-05
    Posts: 388,190
    Betpoints: 10

    Arbs don't lose at Pinny long run like you think..it use to be that way but lines have gotten tighter and other books not dealing weak numbers as much. If Pinny lean won nobody would work.

  16. #261
    faststeady
    faststeady's Avatar Become A Pro!
    Join Date: 07-28-08
    Posts: 196
    Betpoints: 7820

    i dont think JJ

  17. #262
    jjgold
    jjgold's Avatar Become A Pro!
    Join Date: 07-20-05
    Posts: 388,190
    Betpoints: 10

    Try playing the lean with pinnacle and see how well you will do

    I had good liens and got wiped out

  18. #263
    Kelly_F
    Kelly_F's Avatar Become A Pro!
    Join Date: 12-27-11
    Posts: 43
    Betpoints: 1119

    Quote Originally Posted by OnkelChris View Post
    At the end of the day it is just the logical consequence of massive abusing of the cashback promotions skrill and neteller were running. Greed eats brain. A lot of guys just think in short-term maximizing their profits without reconsider the consequences. Well now you got your "fukk you" from pinnacle.
    Pinnacle deposits are excluded from qualifying for Skrill cashback promotions - would this not indicate that Pinnacle benefit from lower transaction rates than the rest of the marketplace? Due to their volume?

  19. #264
    jjgold
    jjgold's Avatar Become A Pro!
    Join Date: 07-20-05
    Posts: 388,190
    Betpoints: 10

    lets be honest all you non Americans will still play there

    stop kidding yoursleves

  20. #265
    PassTheDutchie
    PassTheDutchie's Avatar Become A Pro!
    Join Date: 02-05-13
    Posts: 66
    Betpoints: 1320

    Quote Originally Posted by jjgold View Post
    Try playing the lean with pinnacle and see how well you will do

    I had good liens and got wiped out
    What markets are you talking about?

    Not that it surprises me. Leaving the us market reduced their volume on major us sports significantly. Sharp professional betters from USA will find ways to get their action into pinnacle, but the decreased overal volume on these sports probably resulted in lower limits (on us sports) for the sharps. Eventually this will mean they will find other places to play and as a result their action becomes less sharp as they will play it somewhere else first.

    As to the soccer market, pinnacle is not yet setting the lines in the market.

    Don't get me wrong, there are some smart people running the lines at P and they are catching up fast on the soccer market, but I have a feeling their us sports lines are not as good as they used to be.

  21. #266
    FlyingKite
    FlyingKite's Avatar Become A Pro!
    Join Date: 04-23-14
    Posts: 4
    Betpoints: 24

    If u can't beat the books, then don't even bother about 3% withdrawal fee.
    Let's say u deposit 20k in and win at +110, 3% is nothing and u still win.

    The reason of pinnacle losing US players is more legit to charge this fee.

    People who beat the books are rare. They are earning big bucks over u fishes.

  22. #267
    Hareeba!
    Hareeba!'s Avatar Become A Pro!
    Join Date: 07-01-06
    Posts: 33,098
    Betpoints: 20363

    Quote Originally Posted by FlyingKite View Post

    People who beat the books are rare. They are earning big bucks over u fishes.
    Some may be but I think most of us work on very thin margins and paying an extra 3% to withdraw our own funds puts a huge hole in our edge.

    Much preferable to play at agencies which offer pretty well equivalent value odds and don't sting you for making a withdrawal.
    Last edited by Hareeba!; 04-23-14 at 05:41 AM.

  23. #268
    jjgold
    jjgold's Avatar Become A Pro!
    Join Date: 07-20-05
    Posts: 388,190
    Betpoints: 10

    Pass the Duchy you are correct their lines are overrated as far sharpness

    People think that pinnacle lean works long-term and I don't think it does anymore


    Hareeba just keep your money in the until you rollover as there is no need to keep withdrawing money from there if you have a solid bankroll

  24. #269
    allin1
    Update your status
    allin1's Avatar Become A Pro!
    Join Date: 11-07-11
    Posts: 4,555

    Quote Originally Posted by Hareeba! View Post
    Some may be but I think most of us work on very thin margins and paying an extra 3% to withdraw our own funds puts a huge hole in our edge.

    Much preferable to play at agencies which offer pretty well equivalent value odds and don't sting you for making a withdrawal.
    I don't understand something. You said that you used to make only one withdrawal per month at pinny. Now you are upset about the 5x condition. Didn't you used to rollover your deposit at least 5 times ? You were making just a handful of bets per month with pinny?

  25. #270
    Hareeba!
    Hareeba!'s Avatar Become A Pro!
    Join Date: 07-01-06
    Posts: 33,098
    Betpoints: 20363

    Quote Originally Posted by allin1 View Post
    I don't understand something. You said that you used to make only one withdrawal per month at pinny. Now you are upset about the 5x condition. Didn't you used to rollover your deposit at least 5 times ? You were making just a handful of bets per month with pinny?
    Correct. I've managed very well with keeping it to one withdrawal per month. I would probably average a couple of bets per day at Pinnacle. But at times I've had bad runs and made a few deposits in a month at times.
    However, as pointed out several times, the danger is that if one loses a significant part of a deposit, Real1992s experience suggests that you are still required to turnover what you've lost another 4 times before you are able to make a free withdrawal. Still waiting for Pinnacle or SBR to address that issue.
    Yes, perhaps I can manage that issue by tying up money at Pinnacle for a long time but it doesn't invalidate my response to FlyingKite.
    Last edited by Hareeba!; 04-23-14 at 10:48 AM.

  26. #271
    allin1
    Update your status
    allin1's Avatar Become A Pro!
    Join Date: 11-07-11
    Posts: 4,555

    I haven't seen anything new on the Real1992 issue. Could it be just a misunderstanding? If I deposit 1000 and lose 950, 50 left and deposit another 1000 I should be required to rollover 1050 5 times. Anything more and it would be outrageous and ridiculous.

    I don't like the way they quietly implemented this, and I don't rate them as I used to, but I still think very few people will be really affected by this new rule and it won't affect their business.

    People need pinnacle. Matchbook is great but their range of markets is not enough for many. SBO is only good for some markets, and paying 60% of your winnings to betfair doesn't make sense.

  27. #272
    FlyingKite
    FlyingKite's Avatar Become A Pro!
    Join Date: 04-23-14
    Posts: 4
    Betpoints: 24

    Quote Originally Posted by allin1 View Post
    I haven't seen anything new on the Real1992 issue. Could it be just a misunderstanding? If I deposit 1000 and lose 950, 50 left and deposit another 1000 I should be required to rollover 1050 5 times. Anything more and it would be outrageous and ridiculous.

    I don't like the way they quietly implemented this, and I don't rate them as I used to, but I still think very few people will be really affected by this new rule and it won't affect their business.

    People need pinnacle. Matchbook is great but their range of markets is not enough for many. SBO is only good for some markets, and paying 60% of your winnings to betfair doesn't make sense.
    To rollover once of your capital is hard, let alone 5 times. Unless u only bet all in once and win once.
    The 3% of winnings will go to them if u beat them. But 100% will go to them if u try to roll 5 times.

    I don't think this rule affect when the punter is a winner.

    Arbers will die hard with this rule of course but its still better off doing a decent business with your huge capital than trying to arb.
    Last edited by FlyingKite; 04-23-14 at 02:22 PM.

  28. #273
    FlyingKite
    FlyingKite's Avatar Become A Pro!
    Join Date: 04-23-14
    Posts: 4
    Betpoints: 24

    Quote Originally Posted by Hareeba! View Post
    Some may be but I think most of us work on very thin margins and paying an extra 3% to withdraw our own funds puts a huge hole in our edge.

    Much preferable to play at agencies which offer pretty well equivalent value odds and don't sting you for making a withdrawal.
    yeah its true your local agency can provide similar odds u should bet physically rather than go online. Cash is better than credit and discipline will be better.

    You probably shouldn't be playing on PinnacleSports by thin margins when they charge 3% now, there are some other options should be better. Unless u do really found out Pin has huge edge on odds to cover.
    Last edited by FlyingKite; 04-23-14 at 02:22 PM.

  29. #274
    Hareeba!
    Hareeba!'s Avatar Become A Pro!
    Join Date: 07-01-06
    Posts: 33,098
    Betpoints: 20363

    [QUOTE=FlyingKite;21706913]
    The 3% of winnings will go to them if u beat them. /QUOTE]

    Incorrect.
    Your winnings are exempt from the 3% fee.
    But you'll pay it on the part of your remaining deposit if you haven't wagered your whole deposit 5 times.

  30. #275
    Hareeba!
    Hareeba!'s Avatar Become A Pro!
    Join Date: 07-01-06
    Posts: 33,098
    Betpoints: 20363

    Quote Originally Posted by FlyingKite View Post
    yeah its true your local agency can provide similar odds u should bet physically rather than go online. Cash is better than credit and discipline will be better.

    You probably shouldn't be playing on PinnacleSports by thin margins when they charge 3% now, there are some other options should be better. Unless u do really found out Pin has huge edge on odds to cover.
    I have no "local agency" which will take the bets I make.
    SBO and the exchanges beat or almost match Pinnacle most of the time. But the issue with them can be liquidity.

  31. #276
    Hareeba!
    Hareeba!'s Avatar Become A Pro!
    Join Date: 07-01-06
    Posts: 33,098
    Betpoints: 20363

    Quote Originally Posted by allin1 View Post
    I haven't seen anything new on the Real1992 issue. Could it be just a misunderstanding? If I deposit 1000 and lose 950, 50 left and deposit another 1000 I should be required to rollover 1050 5 times. Anything more and it would be outrageous and ridiculous.

    I don't like the way they quietly implemented this, and I don't rate them as I used to, but I still think very few people will be really affected by this new rule and it won't affect their business.

    People need pinnacle. Matchbook is great but their range of markets is not enough for many. SBO is only good for some markets, and paying 60% of your winnings to betfair doesn't make sense.
    No. It's disappointing that we haven't got clarification of the Real1992 issue. Until it is satisfactorily resolved I won't be making any further deposits at Pinnacle.

    I would think the in and out arbers which Pinnacle says they welcome will be very significantly affected by this rule. But that won't impact Pinnacle's business.

    I certainly don't pay 60% of winnings to Betfair. More like 3%. And only 0.75% on Asian handicaps.

  32. #277
    Djurgården
    Djurgården's Avatar Become A Pro!
    Join Date: 01-25-12
    Posts: 97
    Betpoints: 336

    deleted
    Last edited by Djurgården; 04-23-14 at 02:54 PM.

  33. #278
    Djurgården
    Djurgården's Avatar Become A Pro!
    Join Date: 01-25-12
    Posts: 97
    Betpoints: 336

    Bwin, Gamebookers and Partybets already have 3% fee for all withdrawal methods no matter if you win or lose (I think).
    Last edited by Djurgården; 04-23-14 at 02:49 PM.

  34. #279
    Hareeba!
    Hareeba!'s Avatar Become A Pro!
    Join Date: 07-01-06
    Posts: 33,098
    Betpoints: 20363

    Quote Originally Posted by Djurgården View Post
    Bwin, Gamebookers and Partybets already have 3% fee for all withdrawal methods no matter if you win or lose (I think).
    Good God!
    WTF would anyone play at those places then?
    I once did; their odds weren't that good; they limited me heavily and Gamebookers tried to cheat me!

  35. #280
    jjgold
    jjgold's Avatar Become A Pro!
    Join Date: 07-20-05
    Posts: 388,190
    Betpoints: 10

    Hareeba you should move to Las Vegas and just keep Aussie banking and an Aussie address and using VPN from Vegas to do your online stuff

First ... 56789 Last
Top