[msdw1]

My Sac wager was graded a winner on 11/7, but it was reversed on 11/9. When I inquired about it, they put the funds back into my account with a form letter:

****
Thank you for contacting us.

Please note that your account balance has now been updated. We do apologize for any inconvenience caused and look forward to hearing from you again soon.
****

Hours later, they sent another email:

****
Just to follow up on the below, we had to reverse some trades on this market and during this process all settled bets reports were temporarily affected and then returned to normal. We apologize for not notifying you in advance.
****

Why would they have to reverse any trades on a market? Luckily, I didn't have to escalate this but it is troubling that this happened. After my last situation (transferring an unmatched offer into live trading) with them, I am starting to wonder if there are deeper issues with MB.

[bleedblue]

I wonder if they left the 2nd half lines up too long, and had a bunch of past post bets. I don't think it's a deeper issue other than the fact that these things are handled by employees who make like minimum wage, but them cancelling the bets without notifying the players is unacceptable...

[bleedblue]

The more I think about it, the more it upsets me. If you didnt notice the reversal, there is a chance it would still be that way. And I wonder how many players this happened to. How can they cancel the bets and not notify the players? I really think someone needs to talk to them about this so it doesnt happen again...

[andywend]

I also placed a wager on Sacramento plus 9 for the 2nd half in the above mentioned game and Matchbook voided my winning wager as well.

Sacramento at Utah Point Spread 2H 9.011/09/09 12:23-216.00 commission 11/09/09 12:23-0.40

They said I placed the wager one minute and 20 seconds after the 2nd half started.

The amazing thing is during that time, Utah scored the first 5 points of the 2nd half so if what they are saying is true, I certainly placed an negative expectation wager.

They reversed the wagers because a trader left up an order that got filled after the 2nd half started. If his wager would have won, he would have quietly booked the profits. However, since he lost the wager, he contacted Matchbook and they voided all the wagers a full 2 days after the game was completed.

It was an absolute freeroll for the trader in question.

The only thing worse than making a 2nd half bet when your team is already down 5-0 is to make that bet and then watch your team come back to cover the 2nd half and then watch your winning bet get voided a full 2 days after the fact.

EXTREMELY IRRITATING TO SAY THE LEAST.

[9XL]

I had SAC +9 for the 2nd half canceled on this game also. Apparently my wager was placed 35 seconds after the 2hf started. I was not watching the game, so I don't know if this is true or not. Where can I find out at what time the 2hf started?

This is great for the trader that puts out the offer. If Utah covers, he wins. If Sacramento covers he gets his bets canceled. I didn't know this kind of stuff went on at Matchbook.

[9XL]

Also, why did it take them two days to cancel these bets?

[bookie]

It sounds like they handled it as best they could. My gripe with them is that they tend to close the 2H window a couple of minutes earlier than other books, so I guess they're between a rock and a hard place.

[Kaps]

this is fukkkkkkn bullshit..... they should never had cancelled the bets
if that happenedto me i would be goin fukkkkknnnn crazy on them right now

[Santo]

That it took two days is problematic, but they absolutely should have cancelled the bets. Betfair have done it numerous times in the past too. If the market stays open beyond when it should you go back and void (or unwind in Tradesports parlance) all trades after the event starts.

[bleedblue]

Andywend and 9XL, Did they at least notify you guys of the reversal when they did it, or did you have to ask them to find out what happened?

As for the cancellations, I agree that past posts should be voided, but all past posts should be voided. Of course we get into a gray area when a bet is placed a few seconds after the game/half starts, but before anything actually happens.

Similar to MSDW's previous problem, I hope that this was reported during the game, and that this player didnt wait to see the result before complaining reporting it.

I really think someone needs to talk with them about these issues, because these scenarios have all been lose-lose for everyone involved (except for the freeroller).

[JoshW]

This is exactly why they error on the side of caution is closing markets early. Does nothing but make players angry. Voiding bets is a big deal, but I am not sure they have any other easy option, unless they dip into their own pocket.

[andywend]

Santo, I certainly wouldn't care if they cancelled your winning bets either and since you don't have a clue as to what happened, I found your response rather irritating. Matchbook going back and cancelling the wagers 2 days after the event concluded is more than problematic. If I remember correctly, you were one of the crackpots who sided with a sportsbook when they canceled 19 winning correlated parlays long after the games were completed. You have ABSOLUTELY no credibility as far as I'm concerned.

Bleedblue, Matchbook did send me an email indicating they voided the wager but they still didn't handle the situation properly.

Also, they have been inconsistent in their actions regarding wagers that are filled in this manner.

Matchbook needs to have someone monitoring these 2nd half markets. If a 2nd half wager is left up after the 3rd quarter has started, they need to let all affected traders know of the problem while the game is in progress as opposed to waiting 2 days and canceling all wagers. If I received an email sometime in the 3rd quarter that my bet will be reviewed due to the market being left up too long, then I certainly wouldn't have had a problem with them cancelling the wager (even a full 2 days later).

[Santo]

I gave an opinion based on the facts in this thread, and my years of using exchanges. If you're referring to the Canbet case, I commented at a time when Justin hadn't disclosed the fact that it was 'long after'. I could in that case understand the books position that they shouldn't have been accepted (that the software error wasn't on display doesn't make it less of a software error) until such time as it was disclosed they didn't investigate it until the payout request was made -- that suggests an account-specific vs market-specific response.

In this case, exchanges have always cancelled past-posts, and it is the only way to run an exchange. Perhaps "problematic" was a poor choice of words on my part -- they clearly should have investigated this sooner, and only they can address why they did not. The question I guess is who initiated the unwind and when -- was it perhaps a player (unrelated to any in this post) who left an offer up, did it get lost in the CS process, all of these are questions that they should answer.

I don't intend to get in to an argument with you about my credibility; people are free to form their own opinions. I assure you that if I wanted to be super popular I wouldn't be providing the devil's advocate position on these forums; however I think it's a position that often needs to be offered to draw meaningful conclusions from debates here. If you're an experienced / profitable player with a long-term view, then you understand a fair environment is needed -- not one biased towards the book, but certainly not one biased to the player as many posters would advocate.

As I expect you know, Betfair have a whole team of people watching horse races, tennis & soccer matches etc from around the world ready to suspend - yet errors still happen, and they certainly don't send emails during the race either -- in tennis it has taken 24-36 hours for them to sort out such markets where I've been on both the winning and losing ends. As such, and given that I expect MB have much lower staffing levels, that this happens occasionally there does not surprise me at all. Ideally they would contact everyone during the 3rd quarter, but I don't think it's realistic to expect them to do so 100% of the time, and I certainly don't see failing to do so as cause for leaving the bets valid.

[9XL]

They notified me of the cancellation, via email, two days after the game. This concerns me because unless I am watching the game, I won't know exactly when the 2hf action has started. I don't watch most of the games I bet on, especially NBA 2nd half's.

Unless they straighten things out there, I could see this situation happening again. A wager could be placed a few seconds into 3rd quarter action and you would have no idea it is no good until a couple of day's later. Any other top sportsbook probably would have voided the bet by the end of the game, or honored it. Matchbook apparently runs things a little differently.

[Santo]

I think what we need to find out is why it took two days, rather than whether it was the right decision. Was it the case that it took two days for them to investigate their logs, confirm the time the 2H started, and unwind the bets, or was it the case that somebody who left an offer up complained a day+ later?