[noyb]

If you have these recordings, can you not upload them somewhere so players can hear them?

exactly! show us the tapes! i can't see a reason why you wouldn't to be honest.

[tomcowley]

Long story short...i had an issue with Sportbet a few months back, filed a complaint with SBR, case was given to Justin, and he ruled in favor of Sportbet which was completely 100% wrong. Then for a few weeks one of Sportbets managers named Moe left me numerous voicemail messages laughing at me for getting such an incompetent person to handle my dispute and how easily Justin believed the bs that Sportbet fed him. I offered to play these messages for Justin to show him that Sportbet knew they were in the wrong but Justin wanted no part of the case any more. Personally I think Justin received some sort of kickback for ruling in their favor but that is only speculation...Why else would he not want to listen to those messages or even call Moe and ask him about them.

Anyway, my case is over with, but when i see others having disputes with books and looking for help, they just need to know that Justin isnt necessarily looking for the players best interest or for a fair resolution.

Good luck!!!

This is obviously a crock of shit- he's had his "friends" come post phantom disputes with sportbet, and when pressed for details (like, you know, the account that supposedly got ripped off), couldn't back it up. Dumbass scammed multiple referral bonuses by signing up multiple accounts, got caught in the single most idiotic way possible (and gave sportbet literal 100% LOCK OF THE CENTURY proof), and is on some kind of lifelong slander campaign against sportbet and justin. It's pathetic. And he's lying here again- you can get your entire call history from your phone company- there's no way he can demonstrate repeated CALLS from sportbet, much less these voicemails that never existed.

[tomcowley]

So have a friend call him up, record it, and post it here. Quit talking random shit you can't back up. Post something concrete or STFU.

[korbal29]

Hi this is my first post
I play at ladbrokes for almost 2 years now I have nothing but high praises for them and everytime I call them ,they solved the problem (mostly delays in posting but winning bets in horseracing) A+ book

[RickySteve]

What is the purpose of a referral bonus if not to sign up multiple accounts?

[alka07]

thats not right never udes ladbrokes and will not after this point

[blix177]

I say drop lad to F. And see how they like getting a bonified stick up their ass like what they served Peeps.

[betpartners]

HAHAHAHAHA

Wish i would have caught this earlier

You sad bunch of nut sacks that were sooooooo quick to condemn Ladbrokes.

Classic SBR crap, you never wait for both sides, never, you just jump in led by the lead cheerleader Justin7 condemning European books.

And at the end you were sooooooooo wrong

Read the godamn rules before you post up here trying to trash a good bookies name.

And look at how quick the SBR were to downgrade Ladbrokes, has it ever been so quick for anyone else ever.

All this has done is show the SBR has zero credibility with European books when they behave in this way, downgrading them likelightening when some US facing books treat you like sweaty horse turd.

SBR should apologise publicly and commit to never ever dealing with European book complaints until they can get a single member of staff that understands European books, that reads the bloody rules and does not jump the gun calling them theives.

Let me finish with this

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[Justin7]

Classic SBR crap, you never wait for both sides, never, you just jump in led by the lead cheerleader Justin7 condemning European books.

Ladbrokes' position to the player: "We are Ladbrokes. We don't have to tell you anything."

Ladbroke's position to SBR: "We are Ladbrokes. We don't have to tell you anything."

We got a response from Ladbrokes, as did the player. Both were useless. I don't judge books until I give them a chance to respond - even the worst of the worst.

If you are going to friggin take money from someone's account, at least tell them why you took their money out of their account. NO book gets a pass on this.

betpartners, do you seriously say this is "A+" It looked like theft, but it wasn't - just horrific grading with horrific customer service. The ol' 1-2 punch.

I've made a suggestion to SBR's grading many times: Any book that 1. takes money from a player's account, and 2. won't tell the player why should not have ANY kind of "A" rating no matter what the book is.

Has Bookmaker, Pinnacle, Greek or Matchbook ever pulled this crap? No.

Books on my "deserve a downgrade for either theft or incompetent customer service, but we don't know which since they won't explain account confiscations:" Betfair and Ladbrokes.

[Monk]

Ladbrokes' position to the player: "We are Ladbrokes. We don't have to tell you anything."

Ladbroke's position to SBR: "We are Ladbrokes. We don't have to tell you anything."

We got a response from Ladbrokes, as did the player. Both were useless. I don't judge books until I give them a chance to respond - even the worst of the worst.

If you are going to friggin take money from someone's account, at least tell them why you took their money out of their account. NO book gets a pass on this.

betpartners, do you seriously say this is "A+" It looked like theft, but it wasn't - just horrific grading with horrific customer service. The ol' 1-2 punch.

I've made a suggestion to SBR's grading many times: Any book that 1. takes money from a player's account, and 2. won't tell the player why should not have ANY kind of "A" rating no matter what the book is.

Has Bookmaker, Pinnacle, Greek or Matchbook ever pulled this crap? No.

Books on my "deserve a downgrade for either theft or incompetent customer service, but we don't know which since they won't explain account confiscations:" Betfair and Ladbrokes.

Justin, perhaps some big bookies take seriously their T&C rule, that they don't share their clients' info with other people. No, I am not joking. They can also say "WTF are you?" and can you really blame them if they do?

IMO SBR should work harder to earn their trust and get respect. The ratings are not transparent enough, if I may say it this way. Too many strange ratings that are not explained well enough. Let me give you couple of examples of why euro bookies are not really taking you seriously and we will see. I can literally write hundreds of these examples, but that would take too much time.

Why exactly is Diamond Sportsbook A+? Their offer is poor compared to many B and C bookies. Their margins are too high, even on American sports. Their offer of side markets is zero. If you compare this bookie to, let's say Bet365, Nordic Bet, Unibet, Expekt, bwin (yeah even them)... could you please compare Diamond sportsbook with EACH of the 5 bookies I have written and tell me why DS is A+ and the rest are Bs and Cs.

Once you will be able to convincingly answer questions like that, I am sure that european bookies will be much more inclined to fully cooperate with SBR. Until then credibility is pretty low I'm afraid. And I don't want to read DS review one more time - I want this review to be compared to the other bookies and I would like to see an explanation, why DS excels in each of the areas that are being used for rating the bookies.

BTW, just wanted to check Betclick's rating, but I see it is not even rated. That company has higher revenue than 90% of the bookies with the rating.

[betpartners]

Ladbrokes' position to the player: "We are Ladbrokes. We don't have to tell you anything."

Ladbroke's position to SBR: "We are Ladbrokes. We don't have to tell you anything."

We got a response from Ladbrokes, as did the player. Both were useless. I don't judge books until I give them a chance to respond - even the worst of the worst.

If you are going to friggin take money from someone's account, at least tell them why you took their money out of their account. NO book gets a pass on this.

betpartners, do you seriously say this is "A+" It looked like theft, but it wasn't - just horrific grading with horrific customer service. The ol' 1-2 punch.

I've made a suggestion to SBR's grading many times: Any book that 1. takes money from a player's account, and 2. won't tell the player why should not have ANY kind of "A" rating no matter what the book is.

Has Bookmaker, Pinnacle, Greek or Matchbook ever pulled this crap? No.

Books on my "deserve a downgrade for either theft or incompetent customer service, but we don't know which since they won't explain account confiscations:" Betfair and Ladbrokes.

First off just because they dont speak with SBR does not mean squat, why should they? you do seriously have a high opinion of yourselves and start attacking books for not having the audacity to speak to the high and mighty all seeing SBR.

Second, did you ask a single question in your first post or did you just jump straight in with two feet.

You never said to the guy complaining have you checked the rules or anything, you just came out with "I agree, is theft. I don't think this is the behavior of an "A+" book"

You asked absolutely nothing and jumped to judgement, but with any other A+ rated book you say things like, thats not like them, must be more to this orwhatever, but as soon as its a European book, even an A+ rated you brand them thieves.

Your inconsistent at best mate.

You even said that i knew that rule was in soccer but not the NFL and that you learn something new every year, well mate you need to learn you just dont know European books and therefore are from qualified in dealing with them, something i have said time and time again.

You slam them for not ignoring data laws and in effect breaking the law, you slam them for a load of stuff that is acceptable to Europeans.

Just because its a different culture of betting that you dont understasnd does not mean its wrong, just means you dont get it.

Europeans simply wont accept the payout crap USA players face but it is acceptable for Americans, different cultures mate.

Get someone on boardthat knows how European books operate.

Also check the sports rules before you brand them theives and that applies to A or F books.

Could Ladbrokes have done a better customer service job, yeah probably, could you ahve done a better job, hell yeah.

At the end of all this it is SBR that has come out badly, they downgraded a book so fast it is up for a speed record in the guiness book of records, they did nothing wrong and even if you think them not spilling beans quick enough to the player on why he did not actually win that does not constitute a downgrade so quickly and a front page display here.

Treat American books that are Graded A+ that get complaints the same way, you dont and wont and until you act more consistently European books will continue to disregard you

And who can blame them.

In fact the head honchos at SBR have you lot not yet clicked on that you need to sort out how to deal with european books in a professional manner as opposed to the cack handed method you are doing.

[Monk]

You slam them for not ignoring data laws and in effect breaking the law, you slam them for a load of stuff that is acceptable to Europeans.

Not only that... I know a certain mister who lost a 6-digit amount with one of the reputable European bookies. After Mr. Rich made a strange unreasonable complaint regarding one of his bets, they have decided to close his account and transfer funds to his bank account. Reason? Gambling problems. I wonder how many bookies do comply with legislation like that.

[Justin7]

Betpartners,

We're obviously discussing different disputes, because your statements regarding this dispute is off.

Ladbrokes and Betfair. Both books take money out of players' accounts, and won't explain it to the players. With both books, the players asked "what the hell happened?" In both cases, the books ignored the players. SBR gave both books a chance to respond. Both books failed to address the complaint with SBR or with the player.

There are legal ways to work around the data protection act. You can discuss a procedural dispute without discussing any account details. They choose not to.

But back to the initial point. Should an "A+" book that removes money from players accounts, doesn't explain why, and ignores player emails/calls for information continue to have an "A+" rating? I say hell no. I'd love to hear your arguments in favor though.

[durito]

Justin, perhaps some big bookies take seriously their T&C rule, that they don't share their clients' info with other people. No, I am not joking. They can also say "WTF are you?" and can you really blame them if they do?

They want to tell SBR to **** off, fine. But, in these cases they won't even tell the player what happened.

Why exactly is Diamond Sportsbook A+? Their offer is poor compared to many B and C bookies. Their margins are too high, even on American sports. Their offer of side markets is zero. If you compare this bookie to, let's say Bet365, Nordic Bet, Unibet, Expekt, bwin (yeah even them)... could you please compare Diamond sportsbook with EACH of the 5 bookies I have written and tell me why DS is A+ and the rest are Bs and Cs.

DSI takes actual wagers. Bwin, bet365 etc are jokes.

[Peep]

I still don't understand why after ten days of e-mail exchange Ladbrokes simply wouldn't explain what they did with my account. I honestly thought the first bet was a winner, and then they decided to do a price adjustment for some reason.

"Double result" betting has different rules at different books too. For example, here are the rules at Gamebookers for basketball double result.

Double Result02 Nov 09 00:05 CET
WinnerCHI Bulls v MIA Heat [Double Result]
20+ CHI Bulls/CHI Bulls

3.75 CHI Bulls/MIA Heat

6.50 Tie/CHI Bulls

21.00 Tie/MIA Heat

21.00 MIA Heat/CHI Bulls

7.50 MIA Heat/MIA Heat

1.80 Over time included

[Monk]

They want to tell SBR to **** off, fine. But, in these cases they won't even tell the player what happened.

I absolutely hate this, I agree. IMO most of these... problems happen because of weak communication between customer support and bookmakers. Look, customer support are mostly people coming from other countries, learning language, maybe study in another country, going to parties etc. I see that Peep is a respected member of the forum and that doesn't relate to him, but I will still warn against believing all the complaints. There are always two sides of the story. Always. I know of a case when guy made a similar protest all over the web, but he deliberately lied about circumstances and events. Do you really think that bookmaker in such case is interested in having discussions?

DSI takes actual wagers. Bwin, bet365 etc are jokes.

So the rating is about how much the bookies take and how much they limit clients? Look if that is true, that's fine, I just want to see exactly how these ratings are done and once I am told that, I can actually start comparing bookies. I have a pretty extensive knowledge of the bookmakers and IMO there is no way that ratings are consistent throughout the whole list. If you say DSI takes more money and that is the reason for A+, I will find you bookies that take at least that much and have considerably lower ratings.

[betpartners]

Betpartners,

We're obviously discussing different disputes, because your statements regarding this dispute is off.

Ladbrokes and Betfair. Both books take money out of players' accounts, and won't explain it to the players. With both books, the players asked "what the hell happened?" In both cases, the books ignored the players. SBR gave both books a chance to respond. Both books failed to address the complaint with SBR or with the player.

There are legal ways to work around the data protection act. You can discuss a procedural dispute without discussing any account details. They choose not to.

But back to the initial point. Should an "A+" book that removes money from players accounts, doesn't explain why, and ignores player emails/calls for information continue to have an "A+" rating? I say hell no. I'd love to hear your arguments in favor though.

Justin7 we are on the same point believe me, we just view it differently

Though i will deal with your specific question

I have already said that Ladbrokes could have done a better job in communication but your simply not looking at this with the right perspective

Ladbrokes are not a little company that runs out of Costa Rica, they take £16 Billion, yes £16 Billion in bets, they employ 16000 people and took 740 million bets alone in 2008.

They are absolutely gigantic and if a single customer service dispute in a company that size that took 740 million bets gets downgraded because it did not do a great job in explaining why it corrected a wrongly settled bet then i hope you are just as harsh with much smaller A+ sportsbooks.

At the end of the day peeps got his explanation, albeit late, no money was kept illegally or wrongly, the only issue here was poor communication.

Because based on your logic if Ladbrokes gets another 5 complaints that you dont like out of 750 million bets taken then they will be an F rated book.

This issue was put right by Ladbrokes and SBR should also do the right thing.

You acted with indecent haste in a manner that i have not seen you do with some of the tiny bookies you swear by.

A mountain was made out of a molehill.

You called them theives and got them downgraded and you was wrong

[Peep]

At the end of the day peeps got his explanation, albeit late, no money was kept illegally or wrongly, the only issue here was poor communication.

Actually, Ladbrokes did NOTHING to clear up understanding (or misunderstanding) of what happened to my account with the money being adjusted.

It was Rookies posting of the rule that I couldn't find that got me re-looking at the whole situation, then it was mystery solved. The confusion was cleared up by a SBR poster, not Ladbrokes.

Now I like Ladbrokes and would still play there if I could bet more that $40 on something. They remind me of Justbet and/or Betonline with their quick to limit. I don't think that is "A+ like" either, but that is a different topic for a different day.

[durito]

Justin7 we are on the same point believe me, we just view it differently

Though i will deal with your specific question

I have already said that Ladbrokes could have done a better job in communication but your simply not looking at this with the right perspective

Ladbrokes are not a little company that runs out of Costa Rica, they take £16 Billion, yes £16 Billion in bets, they employ 16000 people and took 740 million bets alone in 2008.

who the hell is making all these bets and why won't they take action from anyone that has a clue?

[acw]

I agree with Ladbrokes downgrade! They are in trouble:
http://www.netbetblog.com/2009/10/la...prospects.html

Well done, Justin! Get those Pommies on their knees. When is it BetFair's turn?

[Monk]

They remind me of Justbet and/or Betonline with their quick to limit.

Hm, Betonline you say? When I click Bestline sports it transfers me to Betonline bookie site. Bestline rating is A-. I wonder why the rating is A- if Betonline itself is B? Maybe because that Bestline link gives nicer affiliate money?

Let's be honest what these ratings are about: profitability for SBR will give you one grade lower/higher rating at least. I would just like to see this clearly written on the ratings site. Song that goes well with SBR is this one.