[KostyaMarinov]

Greetings,

I made an account initially with BWIN to utilize their free poker play tables.
After some time, I deposited some US dollars into the account, played the real money tables, and made some profit.

However, when I made the account, my first and last name that I filled out was an online handle (I didn't see the importance of having this properly filled out!).

I realized that in order to make a cashout, I would need to upload identification. I wrote BWIN to inquire about my situation, and if they could adjust the first and last name to that of my identification. The name on the identification is the same name that is on the CC used to make the deposit. In the email, I also supplied them with my true name, date of birth, and address.

BWIN replied to me that the information I provided did not match that on my account (obviously! Because I gave them my actual name, and not the online handle!) and that they reserved the right to not pay out customers with inaccuracies in the information they provided, and that my account would now be closed.

1.) I wrote BWIN to correct the problem at hand. Their solution was to summarily close my account, and advise me to send identification to them. (If I do, will they not just reiterate that my information does not match up?)

2.) If I really was not who I claimed I was, BWIN sure made it easy for any stranger to have the ability to close any other persons account simply by inquiring about personal information changes!

I had high hopes for this site. I genuinely liked it, and unless they intend to make my stay on their site enjoyable and hassle free, they've lost my business, and likely those who come across this post.

BWIN does not let me win.

I must bring forward the fact that it would be a careless decision on my behalf to release all my 'correct details' to a website I've not yet verified as legitimate. To release your full name, date of birth, and address to anyone is dangerous enough, let alone an online service! I remind you, that I initially signed up to take advantage of the 'free poker'. If I had known such complications would arise, I may have reconsidered my entries and indeed given them my full real name. Alas, I did not expect them to close my account, and freeze my funds simply for inquiring how I could go about correcting the issue. Clearly, I have no fraudulent aspirations, as I am willing to work alongside with them to correct the issue - and continue using their service.

fter sending my relevant information to BWIN customer service, I got the following email reply:

"Dear Mr Marinov,

Thank you for your e-mail.

Please note the ID copy you have sent us is not for the person registered on the bwin account, i.e yourself.

We kindly request you send us a copy of your own ID which is needed to proceed.

We thank you for your cooperation."

---

Perhaps they failed to read the entire email, but in there, I explained that the name Kostya Marinov is an online handle. I gave them my real name (along with the photo identification), yet they proceeded to respond back to my email address, referring to me as Mr. Marinov, and explaining that the identification I sent them was not mine.

This is beyond unhelpful. This is bordering on arrogance, and insult.

I have forwarded a complaint to ECOGRA, which is the regulatory body that provides them the 'FAIR AND SAFE' seal which they hold. Furthermore, I have sent a dispute resolution request to my CC provider in regards to BWIN withdrawing funds from an account which they themselves claim is not originating from the account holder.

I suggest anybody who has similar issues with BWIN, undertake similar steps.

I will keep the forum updated of BWIN's actions.

Sincerely,
Patryk.

[andrea]

Having you provided all the information and documents were fine and enough for a proof..
They totally misunderstood your concern or email...
You have to explain to them clearly.. Anyway, keep us updated men..

[tomcowley]

How did you deposit? Did it have a visible name different than the name you signed up with?

[sickler]

What I don't understand is why did BWIN allow you to use a CC to deposit if the name on the card didn't match the name on the account?

[tomcowley]

Yeah, that's what I'm wondering too.

[sickler]

Originally Posted by tomcowley

How did you deposit? Did it have a visible name different than the name you signed up with?

CC. It's in his post.

[tomcowley]

Oh, yeah, WTF is bwin doing. That should never have been accepted. Pay half the winnings or something since the player is clearly in the wrong here as well.

[KostyaMarinov]

Greetings,

Let me clarify this quickly.

- The first and last name on the poker account, is my online alais.
- Obviously, the CC is under my ACTUAL name.
- The photo identification I provided is under my ACTUAL name, which is the same as the CC name.

They are saying my online alias, does not match the photo identification. Obviously, the online alais is an online alias! This is the whole reason I wrote customer service to begin with, which resulted in my account being closed - to inform them that the first and last name in the poker account is an online alais.

However, if they actually looked at the actual CC, and the photo identification, they would see it is the same name - and obviously not the online handle.

And this issue is not to pay me the winnings immediately, but that they have closed my account, forbid me from playing further tables, and detained the money in my account, all because I asked them to adjust my first and line name so that it would not be my online alias, but my actual name.

[sickler]

Originally Posted by KostyaMarinov

Greetings,

Let me clarify this quickly.

- The first and last name on the poker account, is my online alais.
- Obviously, the CC is under my ACTUAL name.
- The photo identification I provided is under my ACTUAL name, which is the same as the CC name.

They are saying my online alias, does not match the photo identification. Obviously, the online alais is an online alias! This is the whole reason I wrote customer service to begin with, which resulted in my account being closed - to inform them that the first and last name in the poker account is an online alais.

However, if they actually looked at the actual CC, and the photo identification, they would see it is the same name - and obviously not the online handle.

And this issue is not to pay me the winnings immediately, but that they have closed my account, forbid me from playing further tables, and detained the money in my account, all because I asked them to adjust my first and line name so that it would not be my online alias, but my actual name.

Still not clear. Did you provide the photo ID at the time you signed up for the poker account using an alias or at a later date? It has to be later, can't see them letting that slip through.

I still can't understand why BWIN would accept the CC transaction if the cardholder's name is different than the name on the BWIN account. Something isn't adding up...

[KostyaMarinov]

Originally Posted by sickler

Still not clear. Did you provide the photo ID at the time you signed up for the poker account using an alias or at a later date? It has to be later, can't see them letting that slip through.

I still can't understand why BWIN would accept the CC transaction if the cardholder's name is different than the name on the BWIN account. Something isn't adding up...

I provided it at a later date, that is correct.

As for why BWIN would accept the CC transaction if the cardholders name is different from the one on the BWIN account, I can not justify. They certainly do not mind withdrawing funds, that is not an issue, it is only an issue when an account holder is susceptible to withdrawing funds.

[AimingHigh]

From reading disputes on here, it appears that there are a fair few bookies who don't check ID, correspondence between the account details and the payment info, etc. until the player goes to cashout. I suppose it's because unless and until the player wins something and wants to be paid, it's not the book carrying the risk of fraud (identity, CC, etc.).

Your problem is that BWin, like other books, have a rule that the personal information you give on registration has to match your actual personal information. Like other books, they also have a rule that they can keep any winnings from accounts registered with false info:

https://help.bwin.com/General/Legal/general_tac.aspx: Rule 2 - "The company reserves the right to exclude users with false particulars from participating in the games offered and to refuse them the payment of any winnings. On the company’s request, the user is obliged to produce an official document showing his photo, proving his identity (a passport copy, driver's licence or identity card)."

[There may be other, more particular rules in there dealing with this. It's in your interest to have a look through and see. I've just had a quick look myself.]

I know it seems heavy-handed, but they're trying to protect themselves from fraud, and by registering with them, you're taken to have agreed to these terms. For example, because your account was in another name, you could have lost money on that account and then claimed with your CC company that there was an unauthorised transaction. Because the account didn't have your actual details on it, BWin wouldn't have been able to prove otherwise. You can see that such a scenario means that the fact that your CC info matches the ID you provided later means nothing; the fact that the CC info is different from the info you gave on registration is all that matters.

Now, even though you didn't have any intention of doing this and defrauding them, they have no way of knowing that. Why you wouldn't give your actual information, I don't know, it's just asking for trouble.

There seem to have been a lot of similar disputes - false personal info, wrong dates of birth, etc. - with BWin. If I remember the threads correctly, I think Justin has said before that he has a good relationship with them and that they've been reasonable in resolving disputes. If you file a dispute with SBR, hopefully Justin can work with them.

In the future, though, you really need to give accurate personal info. on any account you open. Using "online handles" is just asking for trouble.

[austin]

it is a common scam. a dude opens multiple accounts using various alias/names to increase the edge, and if lucky to win something significant, would ask customer support to adjust the alias with the real name/payment method. Though there is always the benefit of a doubt.

[KostyaMarinov]

Thank you for your replies.

This being my first site in regards to an online poker experience, I was not aware of these clauses prior to registering. After the fact, I read their fine print - which made me inquire to them if I can change my online alais to my real name. I've also read about the bonus abuse - which makes me relieved I did not accept any sign up bonus when I registered.

I understand the caution on their side - and their protective mechanisms against fraud - but I find it a little unreasonable they are unwilling to cooperate with me in resolving this matter. I had deposited an insignificant amount of two occasions prior to this, and lost them, without initiating any dispute - I am just disappointed that BWIN would immediately close my account when I wrote them to inquire if there was a way of correcting this issue which was an innocent mistake on my behalf.

Be well!

[Justin7]

Kostya,

This is a tough case if you used an alias instead of your real name.

When you deposited twice earlier and lost, was this with the same account? If so, you might be able to get a refund of those earlier deposits.

[tomcowley]

Books shouldn't get a full pass/freeroll because they don't take the trivial step of name-checking a deposit. The player is clearly wrong here, but the book shouldn't be rewarded in full when it's clearly in the wrong as well.

[KostyaMarinov]

Originally Posted by Justin7

Kostya,

This is a tough case if you used an alias instead of your real name.

When you deposited twice earlier and lost, was this with the same account? If so, you might be able to get a refund of those earlier deposits.

Yes, it was with the same account.


To everyone else, my thanks. I do not want to inflame the issue any longer - and I believe that this discussion will likely serve against my interests. I'll continue my dispute resolution in private - and should it end unfavorably to me, I will accept that BWIN's services are not deserving of it's 'FAIR AND SAFE' seal. This has also served as a reminder to be more selective about with whom I invest my funds.

To those who put forward their support and understanding, my thanks. Hopefully, my future experiences with online sportsbooks will be a more positive one.

If BWIN should end this matter in my favor, I will of course update this thread with the final resolution.

[Justin7]

Will you fill out a complaint form here?
http://www.sportsbookreview.com/Spor...Complaint.aspx

[bwinLuser]

Dear Kostya,

I will tell you a story...

I worked at bwin and I was developer there. They had huge system there, very expensive btw, and they payed all their updates,upgrades,patches, parties with the "small" deposits, like mine and yours.
I worked there as developer, I dont know i u know C# (its a programming language), and here is are very interesting sections of code they use in his software.

Function Submit_Registration_Details()
**
DONOTHING ();
**



Function Make_Deposit()
**
CHECKNOTHING();
ASKFOR_NOTHING ();
**


Function Player_Lost_all_money()
**
IF LOST ** offer new bonus (10000 play through)**
DECLARE_BONUS_AS_A_GIFT("WE love you, take your FREE money");

**



Function Player_WANTS_PAYOUT() //this is the tricky one
**
ALERT();
ASK_FOR_ID_COPIES();
SLEEP(162373636367367373737) //milliseconds
//ID OK? ALERT !!! (you failed here...but even you passes, doesnt mean you would get your money)

TRY Shuffle_Registration_data()
catch
**
SOME_STUPID_FISHES() // wrong birth date, wrong name, wrong rase, wrong haircut

**

IF Custuomer_NO_GIVEUP()
**
CLOSE_ACCOUNT()
IGNORE_HIS_MAILS()

**

**

As u can see, it was determinated for u to loose. If there would be justice/safety in the betting industrie, they would first ask you for IDs, and then let u make deposit.
IF I open several account, with different names, I could use it just for play money and evt. for sh..ity freerolls. What a fraud...And when they keep your money , its for your safety, u broke the terms. Someone not from this worldcould even think "poor betting comapnies, everbody is cheating on them"
All in all, bwin account doesnt worth a ......

I dont undestand the term "cheating a bookie". This is something like term "little bit radioactiv"
They take huge rakes for poker, so they CANT make minus with poker, and then they saym someone was cheating on him. pathethic.

[oiler]

[quote=KostyaMarinov;2090025]Greetings,

Let me clarify this quickly.

- The first and last name on the poker account, is my online alais.
- Obviously, the CC is under my ACTUAL name.
- The photo identification I provided is under my ACTUAL name, which is the same as the CC name.

They are saying my online alias, does not match the photo identification. Obviously, the online alais is an online alias! This is the whole reason I wrote customer service to begin with, which resulted in my account being closed - to inform them that the first and last name in the poker account is an online alais.

However, if they actually looked at the actual CC, and the photo identification, they would see it is the same name - and obviously not the online handle.

And this issue is not to pay me the winnings immediately, but that they have closed my account, forbid me from playing further tables, and detained the money in my account, all because I asked them to adjust my first and line name so that it would not be my online alias, but my actual name.[/ it figures they had no problem taking your CC info but the minute you want a payout they come down with dumbnesia,typical scam site

[bwinLuser]

Whole gambling industry is pathetic. Whole mankind is pathetic.
Thats why, from NOW on, I will not gamble anymore.
But i will continue to give u advices and my previouses experiences.

[Justin7]

I spoke with Bwin about this dispute. Another problem in this case is that the player apparently has another account. The alias account was a second account.

All the deposits were refunded.

[fiveteamer]

real simple guy, chargeback those motherfukkers.

[pimike]

Originally Posted by Justin7

I spoke with Bwin about this dispute. Another problem in this case is that the player apparently has another account. The alias account was a second account.
All the deposits were refunded.

There you go. Thanks buddy

[pimike]

Originally Posted by fiveteamer

real simple guy, chargeback those motherfukkers.

Expected this kind of thinking from a juvenile mentality

[bwinLuser]

Originally Posted by Justin7

I spoke with Bwin about this dispute. Another problem in this case is that the player apparently has another account. The alias account was a second account.

All the deposits were refunded.

Question: If their system detected second account (how they dected it, we can just imagine (sniffing on your PC)) , why they did not immediatly closed his account(s).
Althought he had 2 accounts (was probably on black list), they let him make deposit, they let him loose money, but they DID NOT let him payout?

Justin, plz be kind, and ask Bwin WHY?

[thespeculator]

somebody mentioned that bwin is a billion dollar company , the make pinnacle look tiny, yet this is all you seem to here from them, ripping this person or nitpicking over a few hundred dollars, a few years ago larry holmes said, marciano couldn't carry my jock, well he shouldn't have said that, but BWIN COULDN'T CARRY PINNY's JOCK

[MadTiger]

Originally Posted by sickler

What I don't understand is why did BWIN allow you to use a CC to deposit if the name on the card didn't match the name on the account?

Because they knew they could sting him if he won and wanted to cash out. Like, uh, now. It is the only thing that makes sense.

[Justin7]

Originally Posted by bwinLuser

Question: If their system detected second account (how they dected it, we can just imagine (sniffing on your PC)) , why they did not immediatly closed his account(s).
Althought he had 2 accounts (was probably on black list), they let him make deposit, they let him loose money, but they DID NOT let him payout?

Justin, plz be kind, and ask Bwin WHY?

I agree, this is how they should handle it. I made this recommendation to them.

[raddle_snake]

Well seems like bwin is unreasonable for this kind of case, i bet with 12bet, but they will ask me to change my name if my real name is different from my ID... at least they are trying to help, not like bwin, so unreasonable...

[KostyaMarinov]

Greetings again.

Although the poster is correct, I did have a second account, that second account was never used to make any deposits. It was a strictly a play chip poker account. These highly draconian rules are destined to take your money!

Anyhow, BWIN did contact me and state they are returning my balance. Im not sure if that means my winnings, or my deposits. We'll see.

[Justin7]

Kostya,

Bwin told me that they are returning all your deposits.

[bwinLuser]

I lost over 3.000 Euro during 2 years by bwin, and had 4 fake accounts.
Justin, plzs ask Bwin to return all my deposits ?!?

Yeah baby, 3k for free... bwin is the best... if they need my money account number , call me plz...

[bwinLuser]

bwin = Bruno

[BWINcomFraud]

Ask me,

I am expert on Bwin scam and Fraud, because I understand exactly how it works and know reason why Bwin steals players money.
This is explained here: http://www.mkapital.com/fraudBwin/

I also won 736EUR in June 2009 and immediately after requesting withdrawal my account was closed, money stolen and never returned.
I proved my identity in a very strange way (it happened first time in my life to use such a strange way to prove identity), I gave my internet banking password to GRA Gibraltar Regulatory Authority employee, but it was not enough, GRA then requested a prove of my ************, again they got e-mail from my bank, informing them that ************ belong to me.
After I proved it all, GRA went silent and I never heared from them again. They help Bwin to cover theft and in each case they will take Bwin's side, whatever you can prove they will not help you.
This is called coverup, corruption.
Bwin is a real, real scam. As a public company they are bankrupt, since I wrote recommendation regarding Bwin's stock price, their stock went down 25% even if the markets around the world went up. Bwin is one step from going bust and it will surely happen, read more here: http://www.mkapital.com/id40.html

I don't know how to attach files here, if somebody can help me, i will e-mail them my other account bets with another bookmaker, you can see the volume of bets and high activity I have, also I will include my bank statement showing my ************ transactions with another bookmaker, you will see that my ************ are welcome everywhere and it is only Bwin that stole my money.
I will happily include this files, if you help me to attach them to this forum.

[AimingHigh]

Did you actually READ the thread BWINcomFRAUD, or just choose to have another one of your rants here?

The OP actually had multiple accounts with BWin and, with Justin's assistance, got their deposits back - no money stolen despite the OP opening multiple accounts in flat contravention of EVERY book's rules.