[Teddy_KGB]

I play now on gamebookers (which became a bwin skin), and today I made a special bet on the Denmark vs Portugal match:


Which goalkeeper will be the last to touch the ball in the 2nd half? (Ball must be in play)


My pick was Denmark, at 92.14, a danish defender passed the ball back to the keeper (it's a touch) then the portuguese keeper had a goal kick, and final whistle. They settled the bet as loser, however I found this on wikipedia, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goal_kick : "The ball becomes in play as soon as it leaves the penalty area". But they don't care : "They checked and confirmed that the last touch has been for the goalkeeper of Portugal since the goal kick is also considered a touch for settlement purposes." But I can't accept it, because the bet had this phrase : Ball must be in play!

Also I sent a mail to bwin and asked about this , they answered that only the save touches counts. I find it strange a bit, same owner, same bets, same live betting, but different rules?

What do you think?

[Raven66]

OMG....you have a problem!

[Justin7]

I would check their site for rules first. I think a goalie can touch a ball without "putting it into play". If a goalie caught the ball, and the whistle blew, does that count as a touch?

[filipinho]

OMG....you have a problem!

Really...Bwin is completely right here.They put that "Ball must be in play" only to clarify that if there is some interruption, like foul or offside, and you see goalkeeper touching the ball during that interruption but not actually kicking that free kick.If one portuguese defender kicked that last goal kick, but ball was brought and placed on the grass by portuguese goalkeeper you would win that bet since goalkeeper wasnt touching ball during "in play".

[Teddy_KGB]

Hello Justin!

http://help.gamebookers.com/en/gener...l-rules/soccer

This is what I found, but here is nothing about the "touches". "If a goalie caught the ball, and the whistle blew, does that count as a touch?" Of course it's a touch (if he caught before the whistle was blown)

I suggested them next time don't include the phrase that the ball must be in play, then they can say that " the goal kick is also considered a touch for settlement purposes." , but not now.

Also I wait a reply from bwin customer service, because I asked them forward their opinion to Gamebookers. However I can imagine that now they will say that now the goalkicks count as well, just because to not settle my bet as winner.

[Raven66]

Not to sound like a prick.....but out of all the props you can play, you pick Which goalkeeper will be the last to touch the ball in the 2nd half? (Ball must be in play)

[Chopsticks]

Also I wait a reply from bwin customer service, because I asked them forward their opinion to Gamebookers. However I can imagine that now they will say that now the goalkicks count as well, just because to not settle my bet as winner.

If there was just one book out there who would not do something like this, it would be partybets or gamebookers. Top notch people.

In my opinion I think they graded it correct.

[Teddy_KGB]

In my opinion, I think they did not grade it correct, because there it is the phrase : BALL MUST BE IN PLAY! The ball is not in play during a goal kick.

Raven : yes, these bets are much better than the simply, who will win, or over/under.

[Justin7]

In my opinion, I think they did not grade it correct, because there it is the phrase : BALL MUST BE IN PLAY! The ball is not in play during a goal kick.

Raven : yes, these bets are much better than the simply, who will win, or over/under.

I disagree here. The prop is "Last touch", not "Last touch before putting in play".

[tomcowley]

Assuming the play by play in the OP is correct, the bet is a win. The last touch of a ball in play can't be a goal kick because the ball isn't in play until it's 12 yards away, minimum, from where it was kicked. It's kicked from the 6 and doesn't become in play until it crosses the 18.

[Optional]

Maybe the problem here is the Wikipedia terminology.

The ball is clearly in play from the moment the keeper takes the kick, as if a player moves inside the 18 yard box and touches it a free kick results. If it was not in play there could be no penalty.

[Teddy_KGB]

Then leave the wiki, here is a FIFA link :

http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/afde...k_en_47361.pdf

"The ball is in play when it is kicked directly beyond the penalty area."

Please read the whole article , if any player moves inside the 18 yard box, then it is not a free kick, rather the goal kick should be re-taken.

[Optional]

Then leave the wiki, here is a FIFA link :

http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/afde...k_en_47361.pdf

"The ball is in play when it is kicked directly beyond the penalty area."

Please read the whole article , if any player moves inside the 18 yard box, then it is not a free kick, rather the goal kick should be re-taken.

Thanks. I guess you can reverse my point in that case

[filipinho]

For me that touch is part of the game, those FIFA rules obviously arent made for bet settlement purposes, so it is different context.Goalkeeper kicked the ball, so he was part of the game action.

[Teddy_KGB]

I don't know what happened, after I received the message that the matter is over, yesterday morning I sent a mail to Gambling Regulator of Gibraltar and Ecogra, and then afternoon I saw that my bet was re-settled as winner.

"After consulting the responsible bookmaker, we wish to inform you that the result of your bet 1SFNY2JU1Pon 13-Jun-2012 has been rectified and your winnings of 2501,92 EUR were credited to your account on 15-Jun-2012."

[muffins]

Clearly they should rephrase it to "Ball must be in field of play, before final whistle" to avoid disputes, but obviously any bet involving last goalkeeper to touch the ball is intended to include goal-kicks. If you were on the opposite would you be expecting to have lost? I very much doubt it, and no doubt we will see complaints from the other side punters if they are now graded a loser.

You're applying a very technical interpretation to a bet that is pretty straight-forward in reality, simply because you lost.

[pellumb341]

My pick was Denmark, at 92.14, a danish defender passed the ball back to the keeper (it's a touch) then the portuguese keeper had a goal kick, and final whistle.

so ,the keeper didn't kick the goal kick ?? if this is the case ,it is clear they wanted to steal you ,but you didn't let them ...

let's make simpler ...

a corner kick is awarded , the whistle blows ...does it count ?? NOOOOOOOO

[Teddy_KGB]

muffin : I did not lose, just gamebookers settled my bet bady first time. The other side can't complain, because the FIFA soccer rules have higher priority than one opinion, even it's opinion of a bookie.

pellumb : The goal kick was taken, however that was not a touch, because the ball was not in play.

[muffins]

You won because technically you are correct per their badly worded rule. But I doubt very much you or anyone else betting on that market expected goal-kicks not to count as a goal-keeper touch under any circumstance, which is the practical effect of that interpretation.

[prop]

I'm pretty sure IBAS panel would of ruled in players favor here. There is a precedent with similar rulings. One example was dispute regarding when an F1 race actually starts. Some bookmakers covered it in their rules, others didn't. Those who didn't F1's official rules were used, even though for betting purposes the start of the formation lap often signified the start for betting.

Also, if there's more than one way to interpret the grading of a prop, with a strong enough case on both sides - then it should be ruled against the bookmaker who wrote the prop poorly. Their mistake, and to rectify it they need to change the wording and/or add it to their betting terms. However, I don't think the other side has a strong case at all. Ball must be in play - according FIFA official rules the ball was not in play when he made the goal kick.

Anyways, congrats on the win.