[Blondie]

12Bet enforces unfair bonus rules

12Bet Sportsbook (unrated) is the subject of dispute analyst Justin7's "Are You Serious?" video segment.

12Bet Sportsbook is enforcing an unethical rule that allows for the confiscation of bonus + winnings, if a bettor fails to meet rollover in a 30-day period. One such player wrote SBR, detailing that he deposited €1200 for a €230 bonus; the player won €5186, but did not meet the rollover in a one-month timeframe. 12Bet voided the bonus and all winnings.

12Bet's rules also state that wagers placed at odds less than 2.00 (+100) do not count toward rollover. A 12Bet player who would have met rollover (counting favourites) had €3252 in winnings confiscated for not having met rollover soon enough.

A third 12Bet player wrote SBR with a wagering complaint. The player placed a soccer match at odds of 1.77 (-129) and noticed that the next day his ticket was adjusted to read (+177). Following the settlement of the wager, 12Bet voided the play.

12Bet's unusual rules are often referred to as "gotcha" rules. These rules are designed to profit from players that unknowingly agree to bizarre and irregular terms. In contract law, such enforcements are rarely upheld.

Players with feedback or grievances should file a sportsbook complaint form.

[mathdotcom]

http://www.sportsbookreview.com/News...nus-rules.aspx

12Bet Sportsbook is enforcing an unethical rule that allows for the confiscation of bonus + winnings, if a bettor fails to meet rollover in a 30-day period. One such player wrote SBR, detailing that he deposited €1200 for a €230 bonus; the player won €5186, but did not meet the rollover in a one-month timeframe. 12Bet voided the bonus and all winnings.


How is TheGreek's policy different? They require something like 4 consecutive weeks of 'betting activity' in order to withdraw. So you could risk 100k one month then go on vacation and not be able to withdraw, but some guy who consistently bets $25/day can. It is an artificial and UNETHICAL way of increasing rollover on the player, don't you think?

[mathdotcom]

Hopefully Justin7 reads every thread to find this post thanks a lot Lou

[Ruifgalmeida]

http://www.sportsbookreview.com/News...nus-rules.aspx

12Bet Sportsbook is enforcing an unethical rule that allows for the confiscation of bonus + winnings, if a bettor fails to meet rollover in a 30-day period. One such player wrote SBR, detailing that he deposited €1200 for a €230 bonus; the player won €5186, but did not meet the rollover in a one-month timeframe. 12Bet voided the bonus and all winnings.


How is TheGreek's policy different? They require something like 4 consecutive weeks of 'betting activity' in order to withdraw. So you could risk 100k one month then go on vacation and not be able to withdraw, but some guy who consistently bets $25/day can. It is an artificial and UNETHICAL way of increasing rollover on the player, don't you think?

at thegreek you could withdraw at any time, if your account didnt had activity they would charge a fee

[Justin7]

Hopefully Justin7 reads every thread to find this post thanks a lot Lou

Greek won't steal your winnings.

[touchback]

I have been following the forum for a couple years and I like it very much... this post about another service finding an excuse for money grabbing is tiresome. Bonus rules should be simple and straight forward. I just deposited $200 at a new book and got the 50% freeplay bonus with a 6x time rollover. I will not say who they are but it is simple... deposit plus bonus times the rollover amount. In this case the total wagers, that qualify is $1800. If there is a possible hold it should say clearly in the rules, but stick to p2p and there is never a hold or time requirement at any reputable book. Cash in, cash out...simple. Here are the rules at this place and seems simple to me, they even give an example.
Bonus Policies

• Minimum deposit for all bonuses is $100.
• Maximum deposit eligible for a bonus is $1,000 unless special authorization from Alliancesportsbook.com Management has been granted..
• Wagers made on both sides of the same game will NOT count towards the rollover.
• CC deposits do not qualify for any bonuses unless they were executed through W/U or any other person-to-person deposit method. This rule can be waived from time-to-time at Management’s discretion.
• All bonuses and rollover restrictions are applicable to Sportsbook wagering activity only. Casino or Horse Race wagering activity does not count towards any rollover requirements.
• New accounts funded via cashiers check, wire and CC can require up to a 20-day period until funds have been cleared with our bank before your deposit is eligible for a bonus.

Rollover is defined as the amount of cash action risked or won, depending on which is the lower amount on qualifying bet types and lines.
Wagers placed using Free Play money will not qualify for or count towards rollover. Of the Risk/Win amounts, the lower of the two amounts is used when calculating rollover.
For example if you place two wagers:
Wager A: $220 to win $200
Wager B: $100 to win $140
The win amount from Wager A would be added to the risk amount from Wager B to give you a total of $300 towards your Rollover requirements.

[touchback]

Sorry, sent 2 times by accident.

[air90]

isn't it true that all the bonuses come along with rules?
What I usually do is to spot the important rules when applying a bonus
I have an account on 12bet for almost 9 months, so far haven't got any problem with them

[air90]

sorry, i also sent twice.... don't know how to delete it

[mathdotcom]

Greek won't steal your winnings.

So what if a book offered an insanely good bonus, 10,000%? But it came with a very large rollover and the rule that if you don't meet roll within 30 days you lose your bonus and any winnings.

Terms are terms. Anyone depositing for bonuses should know to read the terms. This isn't like hiding a rogue clause in an otherwise standard 400 page contract.

Not siding with the book here but I don't think it's as rogue as people think.

[Justin7]

So what if a book offered an insanely good bonus, 10,000%? But it came with a very large rollover and the rule that if you don't meet roll within 30 days you lose your bonus and any winnings.

Terms are terms. Anyone depositing for bonuses should know to read the terms. This isn't like hiding a rogue clause in an otherwise standard 400 page contract.

Not siding with the book here but I don't think it's as rogue as people think.

The two most recent complaints against them:
1. A player was close to meeting rollover. They cut his limits, making it impossible to meet rollover.
2. A player met rollover. They said he didn't. Player has a wager log proving he met it. They still took all his winnings.

Then, I am receiving another barrage of player complaints where their winnings were mugged.

Terms are terms, and most courts don't expect people to read them. Especially ones that are very non-standard. If you open up their bonus terms page, the ones they use to mug you can't even be seen until you scroll down.

This is a textbook case of an unenforceable term in an unconscionable contract.

[allin1]

The two most recent complaints against them:
1. A player was close to meeting rollover. They cut his limits, making it impossible to meet rollover.
2. A player met rollover. They said he didn't. Player has a wager log proving he met it. They still took all his winnings.

it is starting to sound more and more like a scam. Shocking

[prop]

I haven't watched a ton of your videos but at least 15 and this probably the first time I sorta disagree on a point. The confiscate all winnings issues, I think should reflect poorly on the book however you claim buried in the fine print. The only place I could find to get the code required for the bonus included a short list of rules, not too difficult to read and the rules was clearly stated, not buried because it was on the same page you get the bonus code and all terms and details from.

I think the structure of the report here is wrong. Complaint #3 then #2 are the top stories and this deserves mention with them, but is not the biggest issue. All players should be skeptical of all bonus. Bonus are the biggest scam in the casino industry, it's less of an issue with sports, but still plenty of scams and things to be conscience of but when its clear as day in a short list of non excessive not overly worded rules page that contains these offers - the company has shitty terms, should be rated lower, but its very far from theft or pure deceit. Just my opinion, of course.

[Justin7]

Prop,

Most players don't read bonus rules. Many of the players that wrote me are amateurs -- they are down at 12bet for their lifetime. Do you really think it is fair to use "gotcha" rules on non-professional players?

If 12bet had a rule that says "If you don't meet your rollover within 30 seconds, we will confiscate your balance and your bank account", would that be fair? Listing a rule in your T&C does not make it fair or reasonable. Their rules are outrageous.

Now, complaint #3 where the player was going to meet rollover, and they cut his limits so he couldn't... or #4, where the player met rollover, and they said too bad, we ignore math, you didn't meet it... These are more clues that a book with complaints #1 and #2 are a fraud book.

There is no court in the industrialized world that would uphold their terms how they are enforced here. If any civilized country allowed "gotcha" rules, every company would use them to mislead people. "Congrats, you won the lottery! I am sorry, your middle initial is not "Q", so you are not eligible to collect." 12bet's are actually more dangerous, because a flagrant Q rule would be more quickly publicized.

Make no mistake -- 12bet's first few complaints suggested they were breaching contract law. The last couple suggested they are outright fraudulent. If you deposit money here, expect to get mugged.

[Donadon]

Justin has a truly valid point here with these fellas.

Their bonus rules are just set up in a way to trap as many people as possible with this ridiculous term of confiscating of all winnings and the odds limit of 2.0 on an asian handicap sportsbook where almost noone bets on their fixed odds just adds up to the scenario that this is a trap for the newcomers and all the more that way they are able to distinguish the sharp players amongst their new customers and basically give them the boot (by limiting them to 10/50 euros a bet and putting their inplay wagers to a 3-4 minutes hold). If you are a loser in those 30 days, then this is OK, if you happen to win, all your winnings are confiscated, even those winnings from wagers beyond the 30 days limit. Classic win-win situation for the sportsbook.

I would classify their behaviour as rogue. Simple as that

[combobets100]

I never even use bonuses for example. In this way you avoid having any problems later with cashing out or stating that for example "this is not cleared", "that is not cleared", blablabla, whatever. Bonuses are only made so they can screw you later ... plus it's a worthless bookie.

[touchback]

I was wondering if there is any approximate scale or formula that would indicate what the most reasonable lowest maximum wager should be for a service to set for a customer to manage sharp action and still take into account the player having gotten a bonus and rollover requirement and fairly have it so the player has a realistic time line to complete for a withdrawal. Example being is taking a 50% bonus with a 7x rollover on a deposit of say $3000. The approximate qualifying action in general is around 31k.... but if the risk management department labels you wise after a couple days and only say $1000 in action and sets your maximum wager at $50 it will take forever to qualify for a payout. So was wondering is there a formula that can be used to set the lowest maximum wager so that a player can still qualify in six months or less and not have to place a 20 bets a day every day... u know what I mean. What if it was 100% bonus with a 12 or 15 time rollover. It would be an impossible situaton for the sharpest guy.

[JZDAMAN]

Justin is absolutely correct in using this analogy. It's like saying if some bookmaker had a clause in there that states "If you do not meet rollover within 30 days, we are allowed to kill you." then they should be able to do that because it's in their T&C. I mean c'mon, seriously...

I received an email from 12Bet a week ago telling me that if I do not meet rollover requirements within 7 days, they would confiscate all my funds (Approx $1300). Fortunately with a bit of analysis and planning, I was able to lose all the funds in there and won it back in other bookmakers. But this company is an outright scam, it's amazing they are actually the main sponsor for some of the premier league teams in the UK.

[Digo]

All this headache for 20% bonus. Definitely not worth it.

[larco15]

Not a good advertisement for 12bet.