Is anyone else disturbed by BetPhoenix's steam rule?

01-29-12 01:03 PM

I have played at Phoenix previously, and am considering redepositing. But when I went to read their t&c's I see one that states that anyone "caught" playing steam moves is subject to having all their winnings confiscated. The way I see it, any bet you make can be called steam. Lines are constantly moving. After you make any bet, and the lines move ( which they do in almost all cases ), your whole account minus your deposit can be stolen. "Steam move" is a subjective term that the book defines. You bet a team at odds of +100, and half an hour later the line moves to -110. Guess what, the book can call that a steam move and confiscate all your winnings that have been built up since you deposited. It is beyond me how a book can put up lines ( which are offers for you the player to bet ) and then confiscate your money because you took them up on their offer. For doing exactly what the book asks you to do ( i.e. placing wagers on the odds that they offer ) this rule allows the book to steal anytime it chooses. As I say, I have played in the past with never a problem. But, after a couple of management changes, and a little time having slo-pay problems, reading this rule has convinced me not to redeposit. If I did manage to get lucky and begin building up a large balance, I would worry about them taking my money!

Masu485 · 01-29-12 01:20 PM

Maybe try live chatting or e-mailing some of the higher-ups at BP regarding this. Ask if your money would be confiscated under specific conditions. Save the conversation or e-mail, as they will no doubt give you a favorable explanation of the rule. If there's any problems in the future, you can just show them the e-mails saying your money would not be confiscated.

tommygun · 01-29-12 01:25 PM

Disturbed by the steam rule? I'm disturbed by Bet Phoenix as a sportsbook!

5mike5 · 01-29-12 01:26 PM

Originally Posted by tommygun

Disturbed by the steam rule? I'm disturbed by Bet Phoenix as a sportsbook!

relaaxx · 01-29-12 01:29 PM

Originally Posted by tommygun

Disturbed by the steam rule? I'm disturbed by Bet Phoenix as a sportsbook!

Originally Posted by 5mike5

play elsewhere

5mike5 · 01-29-12 01:32 PM

we do

01-29-12 01:56 PM

It is aggressively worded but given the recent history of this group of books, I can almost understand why they have it.

The regularity that they used to have stale lines hanging was unreal. They have tightened up a lot now so perhaps SBR could persuade them to remove such a subjective clause.

stevex · 01-29-12 02:08 PM

5mike5, what sportsbook don't you have a problem with?

just wondering...

lt56 · 01-29-12 04:48 PM

What about when a player "chases steam" and loses? They get refunded? This chasing steam stuff is such bs. The bottom line is if the bookmakers in Vegas aren't what they used to be then the betting public will continue to do better and the sportsbooks will continue to make up rules to not pay out

pellumb341 · 01-29-12 05:00 PM

all bookies are bitches ... why do they put it ,if it is steam move ? who decides if it is steam move or not ??? everything is relative, i say it is not , you say yes it is... bookie logic ---> if you win it is steam move , if you lose it is not

taxer · 01-29-12 09:22 PM

this rule is disturbing and should either be reworded or they should clarify what is steam in their opinion.

So say I bet Giants at -3 and then they move to -3.5 can they confiscate my winnings.

Justin should contact them for further info

Mikail · 01-29-12 09:26 PM

I stopped playing there a while ago. The writing was on the wall so to speak. Yes, that rule is very disturbing.

john230 · 01-30-12 02:42 AM

The shops are real paranoid about booking syndicate action. However, this is taking to an extreme. A player chasing steam does not mean they are part of a syndicate. Probably using this clause to scare away syndicate players.

shark2434 · 01-30-12 03:39 AM

Any pro punter will be garbing to early odds, as more of the lines they bet tends moving towards in their favor, so basically it means that if you are sharp and you are making money, you are gone. This rule is as ridiculous as saying that welcome bonus is intended to be utilized by recreational gamblers only @ TowerGaming

relaaxx · 01-30-12 07:54 AM

everyone should pull thier money out - if you can

RickySteve · 01-31-12 12:06 AM

Originally Posted by relaaxx

everyone should pull thier money out - if you can

lulz

I will pay 80c on the dollar for anyone desperate to pull their money.

juuso · 01-31-12 12:44 AM

It probably refers to chasing fast steam moves, not getting a good number early.

secretstash · 01-31-12 01:20 AM

Originally Posted by RickySteve

lulz I will pay 80c on the dollar for anyone desperate to pull their money.

Mikail · 01-31-12 01:23 AM

If they are just referring to sydicate players then maybe it would be best they re word this rule. Otherwise players will see this as a potential threat to confiscate their balances. Which would be unjust in many cases possibly.

01-31-12 07:01 AM

Originally Posted by Mikail

If they are just referring to sydicate players then maybe it would be best they re word this rule. Otherwise players will see this as a potential threat to confiscate their balances. Which would be unjust in many cases possibly.

Any confiscation of any balance would be unjust in all cases where the player only bet on what the book offered. Why is this concept so difficult for players to comprehend? Mikail, suppose you bet $500 on the Lakers at +150. Then, two minutes later the line drops to +110. The next day, BetPhoenix sends you an e-mail informing you that the $8,562 in your account has been confiscated because you bet steam. Then when you call them to object, they point you to their t&c's and tell you you should not have bet steam --- you agreed to our rules when you signed-up, and now that you have broken them, there is nothing we can do but take your balance. Do you think that that might POSSIBLY be unjust? Yet, this is exactly what this "rule" allows!

Bill Dozer · 01-31-12 09:05 AM

It seems they are trying to rehab their brand and update their model from taking on everyone to being more of a rec book. Both are good things for them. But, enforcing this "rule" in any way would be brand suicide and all would agree it's theft, not to mention it's subjective definition of the actions. My guess is this is one of those deterrent rules someone put in and they wouldn't actually confiscate money. We'll see if we can get a straight answer on it.

mtneer1212 · 01-31-12 09:16 AM

A better rule would be: any player determined to be "playing steam moves" will have their accounts closed. BetPhoenix reserves the right to reject a bet.

Seizure of funds should only be in cases of outright fraud.

Scorpion · 01-31-12 11:47 AM

Originally Posted by BranchDavidian

Is anyone else disturbed by BetPhoenix's steam rule?!

Its STUPID

Only shit books do these things

But I dont see this rule on their site

Its best for everyone to withdraw their funds now

01-31-12 01:33 PM

Originally Posted by Scorpion

Its STUPID

Only shit books do these things

But I dont see this rule on their site

Its best for everyone to withdraw their funds now

Before logging in, click on their bonus promotions page. Each separate bonus has this rule listed as the third to the last sentence. I see it clearly stated six times.

chance · 01-31-12 02:11 PM

Rehabbing their brand by putting in silly rules will not work.

Having people say silly things on forums does not help either.

Just provide a consistant betting service and always pay your customers like The Greek has done for all these years would be good.

Mr. Jones · 01-31-12 02:46 PM

Why some of you guys play at books like this I'll never know.

5mike5 · 01-31-12 03:02 PM

Originally Posted by Mr. Jones

Why some of you guys play at books like this I'll never know.

agreed

SBR Lou · 02-03-12 04:14 PM

We spoke with management today concerning the rule. They've stated that players have never had actual winnings confiscated for steam play. The rule, intended as a deterrent, will be reworded.

Andy117 · 02-05-12 01:55 AM

Anyone having issues getting on the site?

02-05-12 08:56 AM

Originally Posted by SBR Lou

We spoke with management today concerning the rule. They've stated that players have never had actual winnings confiscated for steam play. The rule, intended as a deterrent, will be reworded.

Thanks Lou. This is great news. Not only for BetPhoenix, but also for us posters. A poster notices a bad rule at a sportsbook and starts a thread about it here at SBR. A week later the book says it will change that rule. I feel empowered! As should all posters here. Good work SBR.

02-05-12 09:27 AM

I have just read the new rules. They still feel they are justified in confiscating the winnings generated from a bonus if you get "caught" playing "steam". Of course, this is pretty much industry standard. However, I still consider it theft when a book confiscates any funds due to a player betting on what the book offered. Prorated or not. If a book wants to give a player the boot for any reason, I have not got a problem with that. But all his money needs to be returned to him. If his bets had lost, the book keeps the money. Now they want to keep a percentage of the bets that won? A good book will pay any player his balance before booting.

taxer · 02-05-12 10:36 AM

If a book is gonna take winnings from odds that the books itself offered then that is pure horse shiat.

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Is anyone else disturbed by BetPhoenix's steam rule?

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Is anyone else disturbed by BetPhoenix's steam rule?