Betfair = Betunfair

12-11-11 06:03 PM

I would just like to express a negative experience I had with the sportsbook BetFair this weekend and ask if anyone else was affected by the ludicrous resolution of the Ortiz versus Nogueira fight at UFC 140.

In short, the sportsbook listed the fighters as "Ortiz vs A R Nogueira" in the fight selection window and then, in terms of the winners, it listed "Tito Ortiz" or "Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira" as the selections. The odds of course were in the range of -200 for Nogueira.

I bet 1u on Lil Nog. I noticed immediately after Nogueira won in the first round that the bet was not settled and by this morning it had been voided. I e-mailed them to ask why the bet was voided.

Their response was that it wasn't in good faith to pay out the bet because it listed "Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira" not "Antonio Rogerio Nogueira". This is despite the fact that everyone knew when they clicked on the ticket to enter the betting screen that it was "A R Nogueira versus Ortiz". There was of course a separate "Nogueira versus Mir" fight selection window for his similarly-named brother.

Ultimately I feel that they have lost all credibility in my eyes. No one should be so foolish as to bet -200 odds for Nogueira thinking it's his brother when it clearly lists Tito Ortiz as the opponent.

It is not simply about the money in this situation (a mere 0.6u profit), it is about whether or not I can trust betfair in the future to uphold bets made in good faith.

In my eyes, the betfair sportsbook has lost its integrity with this decision.

I post this to vent my frustration but, more importantly, to notify others to beware of this sportsbook based on unscrupulous voiding of bets after the outcome of the fight is known.

Hareeba! · 12-11-11 06:21 PM

I'm not into the fight games at all so can't comment on the likelihood of people being misled by the names but I do wish to point out that I have seen this happen in the past in other sports and that Betfair would have made this decision based on fairness to their customers.

Remember, they are an exchange, not a bookie. Voiding bets costs them commission. They don't save on making any payouts as a bookie would.

12-11-11 06:36 PM

Originally Posted by Hareeba!

I'm not into the fight games at all so can't comment on the likelihood of people being misled by the names but I do wish to point out that I have seen this happen in the past in other sports and that Betfair would have made this decision based on fairness to their customers.

Remember, they are an exchange, not a bookie. Voiding bets costs them commission. They don't save on making any payouts as a bookie would.

So it is quite obvious when you have to specifically click on "A R Nogueira versus Ortiz" which fight it is. Unlike most other sportsbook, there is not a long list of odds for every fight on a single page to lump multiple fights together.

Anyways, why would betfair void the bet after the fight result is known and not before? The fight was listed for a week with no one raising a fuss so why is there an issue immediately after the fight?

Yes they are an exchange but I'm not certain whether the company's representatives are permitted to make personal or company bets in order to settle bids/asks, generate volume and take advantage of juicy lines relative to other books.

Quite frankly, I have lost all faith in their sportsbook if they are going to void bets in this manner once the outcome of the fight is known.

Hareeba! · 12-11-11 06:40 PM

I really don't know but perhaps nobody drew the issue to their attention before the fight?

Betfair is the best place to bet on this planet. You will be missing out badly should you let one highly unusual glitch put you off taking advantage of their offerings.

aggieshawn · 12-11-11 06:40 PM

They void all bets with errors.
Simple policy.

You should of contacted them with the error when you noticed it.

v1y · 12-11-11 06:42 PM

That's bullshit.

12-11-11 06:49 PM

Originally Posted by aggieshawn

They void all bets with errors.
Simple policy.

You should of contacted them with the error when you noticed it.

The point is I didn't notice it because the selection window listed "A R Nogueira versus Ortiz" which is, in fact, correct and is self explanatory for which brother that is for anyone betting on the fight.

I personally, nor did anyone else, click on the fight thinking I was selecting Big Nog.

12-11-11 08:34 PM

Yup -- this is serious B.S. They listed the fight. People accepted. Lil Nog won.

What's this nonsense all about?

yokspot · 12-11-11 08:41 PM

Originally Posted by Wanna Bet On It?

In my eyes, the betfair sportsbook has lost its integrity with this decision.

Incorrect.

Betfair had lost all its integrity way before this.

PunisherIND · 12-11-11 08:43 PM

is there some way to find out if they voided tito ortiz bets as well?

Hareeba! · 12-11-11 08:51 PM

Originally Posted by PunisherIND

is there some way to find out if they voided tito ortiz bets as well?

of course they did
it's an exchange, not a bookie
both sides of a matched bet are voided

12-11-11 08:57 PM

Originally Posted by PunisherIND

is there some way to find out if they voided tito ortiz bets as well?

I don't know but you raise a good question.

Since it's a betting exchange, I had both bets FOR (i.e. bids) and AGAINST (i.e. asks) Nogueira with a NET amount of 1u FOR him to win (If you're wondering, I had bets both ways to arb him). They voided all of my bets.

Now I wonder if the Ortiz bets were voided too. I guess they might argue that they thought Tito's opponent was different --- and they'd be an absolute moron that will be easily separated from their money soon enough.

However, if the Tito Ortiz bets weren't voided then that is absolute bullshit because a bet FOR Nogueira is identical to a bet AGAINST Tito which is a viable, alternative option to select in the same betting window.

12-11-11 09:03 PM

Originally Posted by Hareeba!

of course they did
it's an exchange, not a bookie
both sides of a matched bet are voided

Read my comment. It may just be the Bid/Asks related to "Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira" and not Tito Ortiz.

That would be bullshit because it's a mirror image bet although they are treated as different transactions. In other words, a Nog Ask = Tito Bid although the transaction states betting AGAINST Nogueira rather than betting FOR Tito which is what you would see on a conventional sportsbook.

12-11-11 09:14 PM

Originally Posted by Wanna Bet On It?

Read my comment. It may just be the Bid/Asks related to "Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira" and not Tito Ortiz.

That would be bullshit because it's a mirror image bet although they are treated as different transactions. In other words, a Nog Ask = Tito Bid although the transaction states betting AGAINST Nogueira rather than betting FOR Tito which is what you would see on a conventional sportsbook.

All bets on the market were voided.
There is quite a heated discussion about the decision on the Betfair forum.

I have been on both sides of similar incidents in the past, when they have made mistakes with listed pitchers and such and the default tends to be that it gets voided if there is any scope for confusion. I certainly wouldn't be happy in your shoes, though.

12-11-11 09:39 PM

Originally Posted by FourLengthsClear

All bets on the market were voided.
There is quite a heated discussion about the decision on the Betfair forum.

I have been on both sides of similar incidents in the past, when they have made mistakes with listed pitchers and such and the default tends to be that it gets voided if there is any scope for confusion. I certainly wouldn't be happy in your shoes, though.

Thanks for your insight and the heads up. I will check it out.

McFly86 · 12-11-11 10:11 PM

Technically I think they made the right decision.

But it's sheer negligence that this wasn't fixed until after the event.

What was the volume matched on this fight?

12-12-11 07:36 AM

Excellent interview with a former betfair employee who understands punters and the industry.

http://centrecourttrading.blogspot.c...-ferguson.html

12-12-11 07:50 AM

Originally Posted by Border Gadgie

Excellent interview with a former betfair employee who understands punters and the industry.

http://centrecourttrading.blogspot.c...-ferguson.html

Thanks for that. I know Scott quite well and met up with him a couple of times when Betfair were going through the 'should we allow bots or not?' phase a few years ago.

He is spot on, in this interview.

Hareeba! · 12-12-11 03:53 PM

Originally Posted by FourLengthsClear

Thanks for that. I know Scott quite well and met up with him a couple of times when Betfair were going through the 'should we allow bots or not?' phase a few years ago.

He is spot on, in this interview.

Agree wholeheartedly with what Scott is saying.
It's a damned shame but I'd still chose Betfair ahead of the rest if I could have only one book.

5mike5 · 12-12-11 04:39 PM

thats terrible and bush league by them

tommygun · 12-15-11 03:37 PM

some idiots in this thread.

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