[The Madcap]

According to the NY Times, Obama's "political advisers" are thinking of using an ad campaign to try and denounce the GOP by saying it has been taken over by Tea Party extremists.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/20/us...dems.html?_r=1

Um, isn't that the last thing you want to do? Doesn't this give instant credibility to the growing influence of the Tea Party? If they have "taken over" the GOP, wouldn't that indicate this is no longer just a fringe movement?

Isn't Obama's reversal from optimist and restorer of hope, to negative Nancy finger-pointer, a large reason why his approval ratings are plummeting?

Are the liberal elite so self-absorbed and stuck up their own asses they don't realize it's this kind of blame game attitude that is empowering the right?

Grassroots efforts, led by the optimistic and those alienated with Bush's policies is what led to Obama's triumph, and now, witnessing a similar grassroots effort on the right, they're going to implement the same losing strategy the GOP did in '06 and '08?

So let's get this straight: Obama wants to denounce the GOP by saying they've been taken over by the Tea Party. The same Tea Party, whose mission, more than just about anything, is to reduce taxes. It's a good thing the Democratic Party doesn't have these types of tax-cutting extremists in their ranks, otherwise, Obama might look stupid.

Oh, wait, I forgot.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com...a-on-tax-cuts/

Dear Obama voters:

You know how your critics call you pretentious self-righteous jackasses that can't see night from day?

Well this is why.

Obama is so self-absorbed in his own perceived righteousness that he can't even tell when he's pissing off his own supporters. He's either that arrogant, or so dense as a politician, that he doesn't even realize when his policies are pushing his own voters to the other side. Or, at least, to stay home. And this Obama voters, is why the smarter liberals all wanted Hillary. She at least understands politics. All Obama seems to understand is the sound of his own voice.

Dear normal Democrats: I'm sorry you let your party get taken over by imbeciles. But it's your own damned fault for not standing up to these morons.

You know how the crazy right-wing has their religious nuts? You ever notice how when the GOP gets in power they don't actually ever do anything for them? Did they overturn Roe v Wade? No. Did they actually all together ban stem-cell research? No. Did they pass a gay marriage amendment? No. Did they really even talk about any of this stuff if it wasn't near election time? No. You know why? Because the GOP, for all their faults, aren't that dumb. Obama, however, is apparently that dumb. Or, that arrogant. Either way, that's why you're getting trounced in November. And that's why the Tea Party is getting bigger and bigger. It's your own damn fault. Maybe you'll learn from this and actually take the time next go around to try and get back in touch with the sentiments of your average American. Because the more you point fingers at people, instead of listening to them, the more they're going to turn their backs on you and tell you to piss off.

[jw]

Why not fight fire with fire ... if your opponent won't fight fair .. (and we all know the Obama Attack Ads are already way past planning stages) fight harder.

Sounds like the perfect strategy to me.

[curious]

First, the tea party movement isn't an "extreme" movement, it doesn't have very many "extremists", what few extremists there are don't have a voice.

Unless, of course, you view having a balanced budget, transparent law making, moderate taxes, and states rights above federal intrustion as being "extreme" positions. Oh, I forgot, the Obamists do view these as extreme positions.

Second, we are not 'in' the GOP. We are influencing what the GOP does by standing up and telling them we aren't putting up with their BS anymore and voting their incumbants out of office. But, we are also voting Democrat incumbants out of office. The tea party movement isn't partisan. We want our elected officials to use common sense and fiscal responsibility no matter what party they are in.

Third, the tea party movement was never a 'fringe' movement. From the early beginnings we have had huge numbers of supporters and have been making our voice heard by elected officials and those who would like to get elected or re-elected. Our positions are not 'fringe' positions. The lame stream media slapped those labels on us early on in an attempt to discredit us.

Obama is arrogant and he looks down on anyone who is not a Marxist. Read his books and you will see that loud and clear.

[andywend]

Anyone who believes that the Tea Party is just a bunch of extremist republicans should look at what happened in Delaware.

The republican candidate was trading around 90 (90% chance that the republican wins Delaware's senate seat in the upcoming mid-term election).

Unfortunately for the republicans, the tea party candidate beat their candidate and now the democratic candidate has about an 85% chance to get the seat.

The existence of the tea party is helping the democrats tremendously as its siphoning off votes that would have otherwise gone to the republicans. The democrats should be embracing the tea party people or just remaining silent but instead they are doing everything in their power to discredit them.

I would like to hear the viewpoint of a liberal democrat on the following question:

What exactly about the tea party and their platform do you disagree with? I am interested in reading the answer to that question.

[jw]

What exactly about the tea party and their platform do you disagree with? I am interested in reading the answer to that question.

We've already had this question ... the tea party does not have a manifesto that you could run a country with ... their stated policies are pretty much all talking points and no substance ... and the nutjobs they put out there to "front" the party are ... for the most part ... laughable.

My guess is that Palin uses the same people to vet the candidates that they used to vet her when she was thrown into the spotlights.

[Hotdiggity11]

Seems like a pretty good strategy. Tea Party candidates have been taking major licks in the past few months. Rand Paul's comments about the oil spill and civil rights made him have to dodge the media for a while until things cooled off. Sharron Angle has essentially ran from the media every chance she has gotten in order to bolster her chances of winning. The candidate in Deleware might just lose when Mike Castle would have easily won re-election. Seems as if the only real success story in a highly contested race for the 2010 mid-terms is Rubio in Florida who has done a good campaigning job.

[andywend]

We've already had this question ... the tea party does not have a manifesto that you could run a country with ... their stated policies are pretty much all talking points and no substance ...

The same can be said about both the republican and democratic parties as both parties are running our country right into the ground.

Both parties allow special interest groups to influence all of their politicians via cash bribes.

JW, your answer to my question had no substance. Since you are clearly opposed to the Tea Party movement, I assumed you could come up with something a lot more specific.

[BigdaddyQH]

I think that the NAACP and othe Liberal organizations have just as many, if not MORE radicals as members than the Teap Party has. Delaware Republicans decided that they would rather have a Democrat to attack, then a Liberal Republican, who voted with the Democrats on many issues, to represent them. That is the right move. You may lose a Senate Race, but you keep your integrity.

I have said many times that party lables mean nothing. You are either a Liberal, Moderate, or Conservative. The Liberals, along with their flawed, failed policies, are in major trouble now. Their policies have failed, and the voters in this nation are showing their displeasure with them. The Conservatives are gaining in popularity every day. It is much more important for people to vote their conscience than it is for people to vote party line. I an a Republican, but I did not vote for McCain or Obama. Both were too Liberal for my likings. Independent voters are now leaving the Liberals in large numbers. They will decide the fate of the midterms, like they normally do.

[golfrulz]

I think that the NAACP and othe Liberal organizations have just as many, if not MORE radicals as members than the Teap Party has. Delaware Republicans decided that they would rather have a Democrat to attack, then a Liberal Republican, who voted with the Democrats on many issues, to represent them. That is the right move. You may lose a Senate Race, but you keep your integrity.

I have said many times that party lables mean nothing. You are either a Liberal, Moderate, or Conservative. The Liberals, along with their flawed, failed policies, are in major trouble now. Their policies have failed, and the voters in this nation are showing their displeasure with them. The Conservatives are gaining in popularity every day. It is much more important for people to vote their conscience than it is for people to vote party line. I an a Republican, but I did not vote for McCain or Obama. Both were too Liberal for my likings. Independent voters are now leaving the Liberals in large numbers. They will decide the fate of the midterms, like they normally do.

lol......too liberal not to even vote...well don't fucken bitch then....if you do not vote....you do not have the right to complain. geez.

[The Madcap]

Why is it that any mention of the Tea Party, regardless of the context, turns any conversation into a discussion of what the Tea Party is, or isn't? And whether or not they are whackos?

You fellas are welcomed to take this thread wherever you want, but I would like to say that the reason I posted it was to examine possible motivations behind Obama's apparent upcoming election strategy, and what this says about his qualities as a leader. Is this a wise move? Why or Why not? I wanted to keep this about tactics and analysis of Obama and his administration's ability to "politic." It was not intended to devolve into another he said she said about what the Tea Party movement is or isn't. Don't we have enough of these already?

Curious- I know where you are coming from. Please understand that not everybody that writes the words extremist and Tea Party in the same sentence sees them as such. You don't need to spell out the reality for me. I was simply framing this thread from a liberal's conception so as to approach them rationally.

JW-I take it that you must be an Obama voter. Otherwise you might understand why your "fight fire with fire" metaphor is mismatched. This post isn't about the general idea of negative attack ads. It's about the forsight (or lack thereof) in choosing who to attack with one's negativity. Anti-Obama ads at least serve some semblance of a consistent purpose: to rile up people already angry with Obama, and get them to the polls to vote against him and the Democrats. This sentiment already exists, and is widespread, the ads simply drum up his detractors to actually do something.

Anti-Tea Party ads from the White House are not dispensed with the same reason. The Tea Party isn't in power. They haven't made any laws. They can't be held accountable or responsible for anything the government has done. Not even during the Bush Administration. (Unless you want to argue that the previous reticence of Tea Party people is what led to the take over of the GOP by the neo-cons, but that is another story.)

So back to the point: In recent weeks Democrats have been distancing themselves from Obama. The public statements calling for tax cuts being the latest example. They are distancing themselves because they realize if they don't, they won't get re-elected. And they won't get re-elected because the country is pissed at Obama right now. Democrats in congress get this. They can see the writing on the wall. So the question is: WHY DOESN'T OBAMA? Why would Obama lash out at the Tea Party when members of his own party have began a public shift away from his administration and closer to the objectives of the Tea Party? I'm interested to know what you think. Whatever side of the aisle you're on.

[jw]

JW, your answer to my question had no substance. Since you are clearly opposed to the Tea Party movement, I assumed you could come up with something a lot more specific.

Why don't you link me to a place where I can find out what the Tea party stands for .. If i were to vote for them .. what would their stance be on education? Environmental issues? Foreign policy?

Anyone can call themselves a "movement" and promise an ideal ....

as I said .. "the JW party will give out free ice-cream to everyone, lower taxes and also give free healthcare to all ... Nobody will have to work ever again, we will also give everyone a free car .. after-all the government owns the car companies .. so why not spread the wealth ... businesses will never have to pay any tax ... and you can have all the guns you want .... everyone will get 10 acres of land ... and you can also gamble what you want whenever you want"

See ... easy isn't it ... ?

That should get me a few seats

[itchypickle]

Why don't you link me to a place where I can find out what the Tea party stands for .. If i were to vote for them .. what would their stance be on y?education? Environmental issues? Foreign polic

Anyone can call themselves a "movement" and promise an ideal ....

as I said .. "the JW party will give out free ice-cream to everyone, lower taxes and also give free healthcare to all ... Nobody will have to work ever again, we will also give everyone a free car .. after-all the government owns the car companies .. so why not spread the wealth ... businesses will never have to pay any tax ... and you can have all the guns you want .... everyone will get 10 acres of land ... and you can also gamble what you want whenever you want"

See ... easy isn't it ... ?

That should get me a few seats

We could ask the same of the Democrats as well. nothing more than generalities...Education? = blank check to the teachers union....Environment?= anything we can overcharge and call it 'green' as well as tax your home energy bill in the name of 'going green'.....Foreign Policy?= Maintain the Bush strategy mixed with a little apology to Iran and N Korea.

[jw]

waffle waffle waffle ...

So there isn't one then .. is that what you are telling me ... ?

[itchypickle]

No I'm saying that all 3 parties are all over the place this political season. The Tea party platform is less government....lower taxes...focus on individual responsibility...basically traditional Republican platforms that have been abandoned by the party over the last decade. I'm not here to toe any party line....dem...rep...tea...libertarian. I'm simply saying the Tea Party is more of a collective of people who are just tired of the pendulum of politics. I don't think any reasonable person ever has an ideal candidate for office. If they do....let me know?
I think that's the appeal of the Tea Party more than most these days...no need to subscribe to specific talking points. Once you start defining things and holding them to certain robotic views...that's what the average American is sick of...the branding of ideas. Just keep it simple...provide a national defense....medical and emergency response...a public avenue for education...etc. But don't punish success and expect to keep asking for more and more revenue to support career special interests and a dictation of how to live our lives. Provide this..and I think everyone would be happy...except for those who depend on govt to guide them through life..but THAT is not what it's intended to do.

[curious]

We've already had this question ... the tea party does not have a manifesto that you could run a country with ... their stated policies are pretty much all talking points and no substance ... and the nutjobs they put out there to "front" the party are ... for the most part ... laughable.

My guess is that Palin uses the same people to vet the candidates that they used to vet her when she was thrown into the spotlights.

The tea party movement is not a political party. It is a grass roots movement of citizens who are fed up with business as usual. Why would we have a manifesto? We hold rallies, we have meetings, we confront our elected officials when they appear in public. The people that the media puts in front of the camera don't speak for us. You obviously have no idea what the tea party movement is about.

[curious]

No I'm saying that all 3 parties are all over the place this political season. The Tea party platform is less government....lower taxes...focus on individual responsibility...basically traditional Republican platforms that have been abandoned by the party over the last decade. I'm not here to toe any party line....dem...rep...tea...libertarian. I'm simply saying the Tea Party is more of a collective of people who are just tired of the pendulum of politics. I don't think any reasonable person ever has an ideal candidate for office. If they do....let me know?
I think that's the appeal of the Tea Party more than most these days...no need to subscribe to specific talking points. Once you start defining things and holding them to certain robotic views...that's what the average American is sick of...the branding of ideas. Just keep it simple...provide a national defense....medical and emergency response...a public avenue for education...etc. But don't punish success and expect to keep asking for more and more revenue to support career special interests and a dictation of how to live our lives. Provide this..and I think everyone would be happy...except for those who depend on govt to guide them through life..but THAT is not what it's intended to do.

The lame stream media has it totally wrong. The word 'party' in tea party stands for the boston tea party, not political party. The tea party movement is not a political party nor does it want to be. We meet to hold to account elected offiicals and those who wish to be elected.

[Andy117]

I have said many times that party lables mean nothing. You are either a Liberal, Moderate, or Conservative.

So what are you if you're a fiscal conservative and a social liberal?

[itchypickle]

So what are you if you're a fiscal conservative and a social liberal?

Libertarian? Or again...let's not label anyone. Just find a candidate who represents what you like..and go with them.

[curious]

Why don't you link me to a place where I can find out what the Tea party stands for ..

There is no such link. The tea party movement is a grass roots movement where citizens express their views. There is no centralized management, so no platform.

If i were to vote for them ..

The tea party movement is not a political party and has no candidates, so you cannot vote for them. Now, you could see which candidates are getting support from people who attend tea party rallies, and you could easily look up that candidate's positions on issues.

Anyone can call themselves a "movement" and promise an ideal ....

We don't call ourselves a movement, we show up to rallies and any place where our elected officials dare show their faces in public to hold them accountable for their actions. People who attend tea party rallies are not promising an ideal, we are telling elected officials and those who desire to become elected that they better be fiscally responsible or they are out. Not sure what ideal you think it is that we are promising.

as I said .. "the JW party will give out free ice-cream to everyone, lower taxes and also give free healthcare to all ... Nobody will have to work ever again, we will also give everyone a free car .. after-all the government owns the car companies .. so why not spread the wealth ... businesses will never have to pay any tax ... and you can have all the guns you want .... everyone will get 10 acres of land ... and you can also gamble what you want whenever you want"

You won't be able to find the same type of things being said at tea parties. So, this is a false argument.
Again, you are confusing the word "party" in tea party with a political party, it isn't and isn't trying to be. What we are doing is holding political candidates accountable for their actions and insisting that they be fiscally responsible.

[itchypickle]

Anyone looked at Congressman Ryan's "Road Map for America"? Some really great ideas in it. Especially liking the business consumption tax rates of less than 10%

http://www.roadmap.republicans.budget.house.gov/