[itchypickle]

Just watched a segment on MSNBC with Andrea Mitchell interviewing Dennis McDonough from Obama's staff. It was a preview of tonight's Oval Office address. She tried many times for a simple answer to the question "Should Obama give President Bush at least some credit for the Iraq success?" The response was "He will give credit where credit is due"....So Mitchell asked "The surge was a major reason why the withdrawl has occured on schedule so that means Bush deserves a mention"...His response "the troops are going to be thanked" She again said "But beyond the troops...doesn't the bold move on Bush's part that worked out deserve credit" McDonough: "Andrea, I'm not going to get into the politics of this" Yet he is a political employee. She then showed Robert Gibbs saying the 20k troop surge worked and then played Obama being "actively opposed to a surge because it will not work" yet now he claims credit for the results??
THIS type of infantile action by supposed leaders of a nation is exactly why people of all ideology are frustrated with Obama. Let's also not forget this withdrawl policy was agreed to and signed by who...? BUSH with the Iraqi president before he left office. So waht we have going on is like you and I arguing over betting our bankrolls on a huge dog play....I say bet...you say no way....then when it cashes....you punch the ticket and take the money leaving me with no payday...that simple. It's sad is what it is.

[Emily_Haines]

He said he was going to end both these wars in his campaign promises. Neither one of these clowns deserve any thanks for the millions of lost lives in this worthless war.

[Facepunch]

Emily,
He has not ended any wars, he has expanded them. Just because he is outsourcing the security jobs of soldiers to XE Mercenaries (formerly Blackwater), does not mean that he has ended the war.

Agree with you Itchy,
I was a surge troop, and have respect for those that pushed for it.

[Naz18]

Because Americans are dumb as fuk....can't make decisions first of all....

[rkelly110]

Boy Naz18, your avatar doesn't do that remark any justice.

[newguy]

Naz. Thanks for adding so much to the conversation!! On the topic, this is exactly why everyone is sick of both sides. Neither side has a candidate that can stand on his own so they have to kowtow to their party. It's pathetic!!

[iwant2lrn]

I do like that Obama has been Obama since day one. No one can deny that he has not changed his style of managing or tried to change just to make people happy. Most of the presidents did that too. I appreciate that more than the ones that change there minds every week or when the media barks louder.

[curious]

I do like that Obama has been Obama since day one. No one can deny that he has not changed his style of managing or tried to change just to make people happy. Most of the presidents did that too. I appreciate that more than the ones that change there minds every week or when the media barks louder.

"Managing"? You call what Obama has been doing since election day "managing"???

[mighty maron]

This represents Obama adminstration





http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bdoh...eature=related

[itchypickle]

"Managing"? You call what Obama has been doing since election day "managing"???

I agree...maybe he's a hands off guy...but definitely not a solid manager. His way is to sit back and let a story play out...then wades in when it's safe for him or as far as legislation goes...he hands it all of to Pelosi/Reid and takes the lead from them. Maybe that's his form of delegating?

[curious]

I agree...maybe he's a hands off guy...but definitely not a solid manager. His way is to sit back and let a story play out...then wades in when it's safe for him or as far as legislation goes...he hands it all of to Pelosi/Reid and takes the lead from them. Maybe that's his form of delegating?

It is nonsensical and shows that the guy has no experience actually doing anything. He takes on these grandiose visions but then supplies no guidance or structure for how to actually achieve it.

Then he goes to the most corrupt, inept, archaic, antiquated governing body on the planet and says "make it so" but doesn't really clarify what "it" is.

Then Congress use the "it" as an excuse to pay off supporters, curry favors, build influence and they throw everything including the kitchen sink into the bill which is basically just a huge pork barrel which doesn't actually address the vision that Obama set out.

Take Healthcare reform as an example. As it was first explained I was in favor of health care reform. President Obama showed a chart that showed how health care costs were rising exponentially as a % of GDP. And he explained how American companies are uniquely burdened with a huge % of that bill, and that this makes American companies less competitive because most other countries don't force (or allow) their companies to bear the burden of health care costs. Great stuff so far. So the goals were to 1) cut health care costs, and 2) relieve companies of carrying the health care cost burden. Two really good goals.

But there was never a cohesive plan put forward that would accomplish these goals. And then it was left up to the crooks in the Congress.

So, the bill that actually got passed, and no one in the administration actually read was written years ago by the health insurance industry. So, instead of getting a health care reform bill we got a health insurance industry Christmas present bill. It is a disaster.

I would have been a staunch supporter of a health care reform bill.

I tried to figure out why Obama would do this. Either, Obama is:
1. A liar and he never wanted real health care reform in the first place and the talk about reducing costs and shifting the burden off of American business was just BS.
2. A naive idiot who thinks that Congress would actually do the right thing without having their feet held to the fire.
3. Completely incompetent

The thing that REALLY upsets me about all of this is that America DESPERATELY needs a real health care reform bill and we could have had one, but now the term "health care reform" has such a negative connotation for most people that we are never going to get a real health care reform bill.

UUUUUUUUUUGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HH

[itchypickle]

Exactly right on the over promise and under perform aspect. Think Hillary had it right when she said the remark about the heavens opening up as his expectations. As I've said from day one...the guy can give a speech...absolutely..but when it comes to hands on....miserable failure. Give me some speech classes and a marketing machine and I can go out there and say "vote for me and you will have everything you ever dreamed of because I can do it..don't ask me how...just trust me" and as we saw in 2008...he went unchallenged from most of the media and here we are. You know it's bad when people are running FROM him and Pelosi..all the leadership...this close to mid terms. Quote of the week to this point...last night on Hannity's show Alicia Menendez who is pretty far left if you've ever seen her on MSNBC and other Fox shows...and is the DAUGHTER of Senator Menendez...works at a liberal think tank (and has proudly stated how liberal they are in the past)...was introduced as a liberal last night...she said "well...I wouldn't go that far..." Hannity asked "are you not a contributor to the left"..Menendez responds "I've, from time to time, worked for Democrats in the past...but" Again...when you are fearful to admit your own ideology in fear of not being taken seriously....you have some bad times coming.

[Andy117]

I
I would have been a staunch supporter of a health care reform bill.



The thing that REALLY upsets me about all of this is that America DESPERATELY needs a real health care reform bill and we could have had one, but now the term "health care reform" has such a negative connotation for most people that we are never going to get a real health care reform bill.

UUUUUUUUUUGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HH

What would you have put in the bill?

[curious]

What would you have put in the bill?

1. Tort reform (serious tort reform, not eye wash), malpractice regulatory reform, malpractice insurance reform.

2. FDA reform (in FDA's philosophy if it isn't a drug it isn't a legal health treatment). The FDA needs to be split into several agencies, one for food, one for pharmaceutical research and approval, one for pharmaceutical usage, and one for regulating the pharmaceutical companies themselves. The FDA has become too buddy buddy with the pharmaceutical companies. The same agency should not be approving drugs and supervising the use/effectiveness/issues with the drugs that they approve. Those should be two totally separate agencies. A third agency should have anti-trust responsibility for the pharmaceutical companies themselves.

3. AMA reform. End the AMA monopoly. The AMA and FDA have made allopathy the only "approved" health care paradigm in the US. There are multiple other health care paradigms that are also beneficial. The AMA has a monopoly on what it means to be called a "Doctor" and only AMA approved. The AMA has become a defacto regulatory agency with no oversight. There are healing paradigms that are effective besides allopathy. To list a few: Korean Constitutional Medicine, Traditional Chinese Medicine, Tibetan Medicine, homeopathy, naturopathy, chiropractic, Ayurveda, there are others. I know some people view some of these as "quackery" but the AMA is behind a lot of the "quackery" scare headlines. I will give you an example of why I believe that Traditional Chinese Medicine has value to offer. Due to an old injury I have a problem with my left foot. A few years ago it became very swollen and then gangrene set in. My foot turned black. The AMA certified doctor wanted to amputate. I researched who the best doctor in the world was on gangrene treatment. I found the man who wrote the text book used in Traditional Chinese Medicine's most prestigious hospital/school. He had moved to Vienna VA. I went to his office. He used Chinese medicinal herbs, a hydrospa, massage, and acupuncture and healed my foot. Because of this man and TCM I did not have my foot cut off. I went back to the AMA doctor and showed him my foot (this was a week later) and he did not believe it and got angry and threw me out of his office. My foot had been so swollen that I could not even get sandals on. It was horrible. Then a week later it looked perfectly normal. And the AMA doctor wouldn't even look at it, I asked him "aren't you at least curious as to how this was healed?". Anyway.

4. Medical education reform. Interns work insane hours. Do you really want someone performing a medical procedure who has been on their feet for 24 hours? The entire education system has to be reformed. The FDA, drug companies and AMA control what constitutes medical education, which is either drug treatment or surgery. Also, health care practitioners graduate from medical school owing six figure student loans. Guess who pays those loans off, the patients do. Also, the education requirements for many procedures are overkill. Why does someone need four years of school to give a shot, or draw blood? Doctors are taught two things, how to pump you full of drugs and how to cut you open. They are not taught naturopathy, homeopathy, traditional chinese medicine, Korean constitutional medicine, Tibetan medicine, or any of a long list of other healing modalities. The control of medical education by the FDA, the AMA, and the drug companies has to be ended.

5. Pharmaceutical industry reform including the use of anti trust laws. End the monopoly of the drug companies. I take a blood pressure medicine that costs $4 per pill. The exact same drug sells for .40 per pill in other countries. The FDA is a big part of this problem. They are supposed to be a watchdog but they fail miserably.

6. Insurance industry regulatory reform. Make the health insurance industry non profit as it is in France. Overhaul the insurance industry regulations (they were paid for by the insurance industry and they don't put the patient first, they put the insurance industry first). Every state has a different set of regulations on insurance. Many of these regulations were written by the insurance companies. Many of them require the insured to pay for insurance they don't want. For example, cosmetic procedures, abortion, drug and alcohol addiction treatment, etc. Insurance policies should be a Chinese menu, I shouldn't have to pay for coverage that I do not want or need.

7. Health care regulatory reform. Federal and state regulations add 20% to the cost for most healthcare providers. Many unnecessary procedures are done because of regulation or because the health care provider is concerned about repercussions, many of these regulations are contradictory and many of them just make no sense. The Mayo clinic did a study and said that health care costs could be reduced 20% if there was serious regulatory reform.

8. Health care administration reform. Every health care provider has to have staff members who do nothing but process paperwork so that the health care provider can get paid. These people have to be experts and they are expensive. They add 14% to the cost of health care. The reason for this is that the US has five different health care systems. We have patient paid, government paid, third party paid (insurance, HMO, employer), government (public) provided, and private provided. A health care provider won't even know how much they will be paid for a procedure until the third party payer processes the bill. France has a system where each citizen in France has a health care card which has a computer chip in it. All of their medical records are stored in the chip. Health care providers enter their medical records into the chip. All payments come from a central payment system regardless of who is ultimately paying. The cost for all procedures have to be published in the health care provider's office and they have to charge the same price regardless of who is actually paying. Health insurance in France has to be non-profit, there are over 200 health insurance companies (they make money selling their customers other kinds of insurance). Obama talked about digitizing health care records and he talked about the chip early on but he didn't explain it and the nut jobs went crazy and scared everyone into thinking that the digital records would be used against them. What Obama was really talking about was the French system.

9. Low cost walk in clinics. One reason that emergency rooms are overcrowded by people who lack insurance and/or the ability to pay is that they lack access to any other health care provider. Many neighborhoods have no walk in clinics and few family doctors. Medical care delivered in an emergency room costs an order of magnitude more than the same care delivered in a walk in clinic. When I first moved to Los Vegas I became extremely ill due to being totally dehydrated, I was walking through the lobby of the Stratosphere and collapsed. The Stratosphere staff called a clinic that was around the corner and they came and took me to the clinic. I was there for an entire day and was treated for extreme dehydration. The bill was $600. Now, if I had gone the hospital for the same treatment the bill would have been $6000. (I owe the staff of the Stratosphere a big THANK YOU). Anyway, the point is we need to build low cost walk in clinics in neighborhoods that don't have any and don't have many family doctors. This way people won't need to go to emergency rooms unless they have an emergency. This will save an enormous amount of money.

10. Reform medicare and medicaid. Enough said.

11. Create a health care board similar to the NTSB (national transportation safety board). The NTSB is an extremely effective agency. They don't write any regulations, they don't fine anyone, they don't have guns, they have no power. Yet, they have saved many lives and helped the avoidance of many air accidents. What they do is investigate accidents and make recommendations on how to avoid similar accidents in the future. In other words they tell what works and what doesn't work. We need a similar board for health care. I guess call it HCSB (health care safety board).

12. Fraud. We need a FBHCFI Federal Bureau of Health Care Fraud Investigation. The money wasted on fraudulent claims is enormous. Digitizing patient records would help, but the system is so broken that it will take serious reform across a number of areas plus skilled investigators who have no job except rooting out healthcare fraud.

13. Insuring the uninsured. I'm not sure how to resolve this one. I am opposed to forcing employers to provide health care insurance. I am opposed to forcing people to buy health care insurance. Medicare and medicaid are obvious failures. The cost of this is going to be enormous. To be honest I don't have an answer for this that I would vote for.

14. Put an end to "free" medical care. My health insurance only covers catastrophes. It does not cover office visits or minor procedures. It has a $20,000 deductable. I have never had to file a claim against this policy because I pay everything out of pocket. This means I really shop around for prices when I need to have something done. I go to a low cost walk in clinic at the University near my house for most things. One big problem that we have is that most people will go to the doctor (or emergency room) at the drop of a hat. If their brat coughs they run to the doctor. They do this because they don't have to pay anything. Co payments should be very high for routine office visits and get lower for major catastrophes. If your brat coughs and you want to go to the doctor then you should have to pay a large % of that office visit. Now, if your kid breaks her ankle that should have a low copay (or none). There is a commercial on TV where I live every day (many times a day) advertising a free motorized wheelchair. Anyone who has medicare/medicaid can get the motorized wheelchair for free. Why? Why is there no copay? When I could not walk I didn't have a freaking motorized wheelchair. When insurance pays 100% then everyone's premium is higher.

Its like this. Imagine if all car repairs on your car were paid for by your automobile insurance company. You wouldn't worry about changing the oil or keeping the engine tuned properly. You would get a new paint job everytime you got a scratch on your paint. You get the picture. The patient should have to pay a % of their health care.

15. Shortage of health care practitioners. Courses needed for health care fields could start in high school. We have to do something to encourage more people to go into the health care field. But, without burdening them with 6 and 7 figure student loans, malpractice insurance, liability insurance, etc., etc., etc.

16. Relieve employers of the health care burden. Health care costs are killing many of our best industries. Our competitors don't bare these burdens. Insurance industry reform will help with this. Why are insurance companies allowed to charge one price if you belong to an employer "group" but a totally different price if you walk in off the street? There should be one group, American citizens. This would eliminate the benefit of buying insurance through an employer. It would cost the same either way. I know a lot of people will scream if they lose their employer provided health insurance but right now there is really no option. Health insurance companies should be forced to change this business practice. Again, I don't have all the answers here but our businesses need relief from this expense so that they can compete in the global arena with competitors who don't have this burden.

Anyway, I could go on and on but I think we could start with this.

[Andy117]

Anyway, I could go on and on but I think we could start with this.

Damn, I think you said enough. You've definitely put a lot of thought into this. Thanks for the response.

[guitarjosh]

Just to add to #14, we could save hundreds, possibly thousands a year for each person if they had to buy their own heath insurance. They could shop around and get a plan that best suits their needs, as opposed to have their employer pay for whatever plan they want.

[curious]

Just to add to #14, we could save hundreds, possibly thousands a year for each person if they had to buy their own heath insurance. They could shop around and get a plan that best suits their needs, as opposed to have their employer pay for whatever plan they want.

That was a point that I was trying to bring out. One of the reasons that our health care costs (and health insurance costs) are so high is that for a lot of people it is "free". The employer pays for it (or a major portion of it) or the government pays for it. So, if someone else is paying for the health insurance then I am going to make more and more demands for things that are covered, and I am going to make more and more demands for the co pay to be lower and lower until it is finally 0. Since I'm not paying the premiums what do I care if my demands are making the premiums higher and higher? Whereas if I have to pay the premiums I am not going to want the policy to cover things that I don't actually need and I am going to do a cost benefit on the deductible vs the premium and get the highest deductible I can handle.

Of course this will only work if all health insurance companies are forced to offer a basic policy with a set of rates that are offered to everyone where all American citizens are in one big "group". But for that to be feasible all the other health care cost cutting recommendations I list have to be done so that the cost of health care comes down to a more reasonable level, so that health insurance can be made affordable (right now most health insurance is not affordable, it only looks affordable because someone, employer or government, is subsidizing it).

[andywend]

Medical insurance plans should NOT pay for routine office visits as that responsibility should be borne by the individual using the service.

If EVERY SINGLE PERSON had to pay for 100% of the cost of regular routine office visits (including annual physicals), that all by itself could solve the health care problem in the United States.

Even the very poor can afford to pay $50-$100 to see a Doctor if they feel the need. If they can't afford it or don't want to pay, then either they find a physician willing to see them for free or they do without the service.

If Obamacare becomes a reality, you will see the bottom 10% going to the Doctor 20X per year. There will be long lines and rationing of health care and the middle class is going to get absolutely squeezed out. I have seen this phenomenon first hand in poorer areas and the problem will be much, much worse under ObamaCare.

IF MEDICAL CARE IS FREE, ITS GOING TO BE ABUSED!!!! Its just that simple.

[curious]

Medical insurance plans should NOT pay for routine office visits as that responsibility should be borne by the individual using the service.

If EVERY SINGLE PERSON had to pay for 100% of the cost of regular routine office visits (including annual physicals), that all by itself could solve the health care problem in the United States.

Even the very poor can afford to pay $50-$100 to see a Doctor if they feel the need. If they can't afford it or don't want to pay, then either they find a physician willing to see them for free or they do without the service.

If Obamacare becomes a reality, you will see the bottom 10% going to the Doctor 20X per year. There will be long lines and rationing of health care and the middle class is going to get absolutely squeezed out. I have seen this phenomenon first hand in poorer areas and the problem will be much, much worse under ObamaCare.

IF MEDICAL CARE IS FREE, ITS GOING TO BE ABUSED!!!! Its just that simple.

Amen brother Andy. We see this now in emergency rooms. Parents are in there with their brat because the brat has a cough.