[Naz18]

If you don't accept that a "mosque" might be build near ground zero then you better not be calling America the greatest country in the world....

[DwightShrute]

If you don't accept that a "mosque" might be build near ground zero then you better not be calling America the greatest country in the world....

one has nothing to do with the other

[Z_Wipf]

If America really is the greatest country in the world then they would have religious freedom. They have EVERYTHING to do with eachother

[jw]

I found it very interesting to read that the current building has been used by the same Muslims that will be using the "new" building .. for the past 12 months .... they have been praying there the whole time ... in exactly the same way that they will be praying there when the "new" facility is built ...

The political bullshit, fear-mongering and racial intolerance being spouted by anyone that thinks they can get a few voters "on side" by opposing this is laughable ...

[DwightShrute]

If America really is the greatest country in the world then they would have religious freedom. They have EVERYTHING to do with eachother

why do I bother

you take one example of how a group should show some respect to the families and loved ones, 2 blocks from where 3000 Americans were murdered and somehow in your twisted mind, you equate that with not having religious freedoms?

I really wonder if you lost your child or someone you loved on 9/11, if you would be this arrogant and thoughtless.

I doubt anyone will ever send in a crew to work on this mosque anyway. If anyone is foolish enough to try, they will deserve everything they have coming to them.

[Z_Wipf]

So because a very small group of people did something bad that literally BILLIONS of Muslims should be treated differently? That has to be the most ignorant thing I have ever heard. Let .000000000000000000000000000000000000000 0000000000001% of a religion make your mind about it. Smart

[DwightShrute]

So because a very small group of people did something bad that literally BILLIONS of Muslims should be treated differently? That has to be the most ignorant thing I have ever heard. Let .000000000000000000000000000000000000000 0000000000001% of a religion make your mind about it. Smart

Listen, if my best friend drove drunk and ran you over and killed you right in front your house while your parents and kids were watching from the yard. Then my other friend drove up, got out of his car and started spraying bullets at anything he saw, killing your folks are several other children and 40 other people before turning the gun on himself.

Now, many years later I decided to buy that house which has be vacant since that horrible day. I felt like erecting a statue in memory of my 2 dead murderer friends and put that statue in the front yard.

Ya, I suppose I have that right to do it but I'd be a real fukking asshole just like those fukers that want to build a mosque in a building where part of the landing gear fell through the roof, 2 blocks away from where 3000 were murdered . It's the EXACT same fukking thing man!

[The fiddler]

Listen, if my best friend drove drunk and ran you over and killed you right in front your house while your parents and kids were watching from the yard. Then my other friend drove up, got out of his car and started spraying bullets at anything he saw, killing your folks are several other children and 40 other people before turning the gun on himself.

Now, many years later I decided to buy that house which has be vacant since that horrible day. I felt like erecting a statue in memory of my 2 dead murderer friends and put that statue in the front yard.

Ya, I suppose I have that right to do it but I'd be a real fukking asshole just like those fukers that want to build a mosque in a building where part of the landing gear fell through the roof, 2 blocks away from where 3000 were murdered . It's the EXACT same fukking thing man!

99.99999999% of Muslims had nothing to do with 9-11. Your analogy blows ass.

[DwightShrute]

99.99999999% of Muslims had nothing to do with 9-11.

so what?

I have a few Muslim friends and not ONE says they should build it. Not one!

[jw]

It's the EXACT same fukking thing man!

It's nothing at all like it - there is no victory statue, there is no mosque, there is no gold roof and minarets .. its political scare tactics .. and you and the rest of the gullible will-buy-into-anything-they-tell-me right wing nut-jobs bought in to it ...

The center will pretty much stay exactly as it is right now ... its already being used by Muslims ... they are already praying inside there ... they have been for the past 12 months .... and hopefully they will be for the next 50 years .... the scare-tactics are getting old.

I say build it ... but not only build it - i say give them what they are saying will be built there rather than what is being planned right now ... build the fukking thing 20 stories high ... put a speaker system in there that will be heard 300 blocks away - build the gold roof and the minarets ... lets see how much they protest when they get what they are protesting against ... where do i donate ?

Rather than the face-lift of the day center with a prayer room inside it they were planning - i say give them the Mosque that they fear most ....



At first I was against it - but the right wing nut-jobs have certainly changed my mind ... not only me - quite a few of my Republican friends are now on the "let them build it" side with me because of the racist ass-wipes that seem to be protesting just a little bit too much for their liking.

[DwightShrute]

At first I was against it - but the right wing nut-jobs have certainly changed my mind ... not only me - quite a few of my Republican friends are now on the "let them build it" side with me because of the racist ass-wipes that seem to be protesting just a little bit too much for their liking.

we can agree to disagree but right wing nut-jobs or left wing nut-jobs, or racist has nothing to do with it IMO.

[jw]

we can agree to disagree but right wing nut-jobs or left wing nut-jobs, or racist has nothing to do with it IMO.

You are right - it is a political fear-fest that is behind the "OH MY GOD THEY ARE ALL GOING TO KILL US" crap ...

I'm about done with trying to rationally explain to people (friends) that 1. It isn't a Mosque that they want to build and 2. Not all Muslims wear Bomb-filled vests and yell "death to the infidels" upon waking each morning.

You can't argue with crazy .. and i'm about done trying ... I'm now firmly on the side of "Build it ... but make it an actual Mosque - not a day center ... and make it BIG and opulent"



I LOVE to go against public opinion ... it's the wicked devil on my left shoulder that frequently beats the shit out the little angel on my right shoulder that makes me drink, gamble and cheer for the underdog.

[curious]

I found it very interesting to read that the current building has been used by the same Muslims that will be using the "new" building .. for the past 12 months .... they have been praying there the whole time ... in exactly the same way that they will be praying there when the "new" facility is built ...

The political bullshit, fear-mongering and racial intolerance being spouted by anyone that thinks they can get a few voters "on side" by opposing this is laughable ...

Imam Rauf would love for Americans to believe his propaganda that his Victory Memorial is a "mosque". What he tells Arabic speakers is a totally different thing.

Imam Rauf is giving speeches and interviews all over the Muslim world, Rauf speaks one way in English and a totally different way in Arabic. When speaking to Arabs Rauf makes it clear that this "mosque" is primarily a victory memorial and is an outpost of Jihad (not all Jihad is violent). All of these speeches start off "Upon the rubble of the World Trade Center we will build an outpost for Islam which will be a Taqiyya Center, an outpost of Dawa, and Aslim Tuslam".

Taqiyya literally means "to lie in defense of Islam".
Dawa is a call to return to the teachings of the prophet. Sometimes applied to non-Muslims but many modern Islamic scholars teach that it's primary intended audience is Muslims who have strayed from the "pure" form of Islam. Since Rauf is a Wahabi, this "pure" form of Islam is strict Sharia.
Aslim Tuslam means "submit to islam and you will be saved". it is the same expression that Muslim conquerors send to their victims to get them to surrender.

Rauf published a book in English with the title What’s Right with Islam Is What’s Right with America. The same book was published in Arabic with the title "A Call to Prayer from the World Trade Center Rubble: Islamic Dawa in the Heart of America Post-9/11".


A special non commercial version of this book was created with funding from two subsidiaries of the Muslim Brotherhood. The Muslim Brotherhood's most famous branch is Hamas.

[DwightShrute]

JW to me it's the unwritten rules in life.

like ...

• you tip toe at night. Sure it's your right to put on boots and jump down the stairs singing Rebel Yell at 3am with a house full of people who are fast asleep. Out of respect you be quiet.
• you don't build a mosque 2 blocks away from when several Muslims hi jacked a couple planes and kill 3000 people. Out of respect you build it elsewhere.

call me crazy

[jw]

J[*]you don't build a mosque 2 blocks away from when several Muslims hi jacked a couple planes and kill 3000 people.[/LIST]

They are not building a Mosque - the political and right wing media outlets will tell you whatever you want to believe if it means more ratings and more money in their campaign fund .... there is no Mosque ... am always amazed by how much fear can be built up in this country over something that has an almost zero percent chance of happening ...

[The fiddler]

so what?

I have a few Muslim friends and not ONE says they should build it. Not one!

So what? I have several Jewish friends that don't have a problem in them building it.

[Z_Wipf]

Listen, if my best friend drove drunk and ran you over and killed you right in front your house while your parents and kids were watching from the yard. Then my other friend drove up, got out of his car and started spraying bullets at anything he saw, killing your folks are several other children and 40 other people before turning the gun on himself.

Now, many years later I decided to buy that house which has be vacant since that horrible day. I felt like erecting a statue in memory of my 2 dead murderer friends and put that statue in the front yard.

Ya, I suppose I have that right to do it but I'd be a real fukking asshole just like those fukers that want to build a mosque in a building where part of the landing gear fell through the roof, 2 blocks away from where 3000 were murdered . It's the EXACT same fukking thing man!

The worst analogy I have ever seen. Where in this mosque does it praise what they did on 9/11. It makes me feel good inside when this is your best argument. Lets me know I'm on the right side in this argument.

[curious]

The worst analogy I have ever seen. Where in this mosque does it praise what they did on 9/11. It makes me feel good inside when this is your best argument. Lets me know I'm on the right side in this argument.

Rauf has been giving speeches all over the Muslim world praising 9/11. He speaks one way in English and a totally different way in Arabic. An Arabic speaking person views his project as a Victory Memorial because that is what Rauf claims it to be when speaking in Arabic.

[Z_Wipf]

I understand that but if a christian man killed every single person in my family I would understand that he is just one small percentage of that religion. I wouldn't protest a church being built down my street because that's just ridiculous.

[DwightShrute]

The worst analogy I have ever seen. Where in this mosque does it praise what they did on 9/11. It makes me feel good inside when this is your best argument. Lets me know I'm on the right side in this argument.

what I wrote earlier

• you tip toe at night. Sure it's your right to put on boots and jump down the stairs singing Rebel Yell at 3am with a house full of people who are fast asleep. Out of respect you be quiet.
• you don't build a mosque 2 blocks away from when several Muslims hi jacked a couple planes and kill 3000 people. Out of respect you build it elsewhere.

call me crazy

[curious]

I understand that but if a christian man killed every single person in my family I would understand that he is just one small percentage of that religion. I wouldn't protest a church being built down my street because that's just ridiculous.

And if the pastor who was raising the money and running the project to build the church was speaking all over the world telling Christians that the church was a Victory Memorial to the murder of your family? And those Christians were holding celebrations in the street in honor of the Victory? Then how would you feel?

[jw]

... when the building /refurb is complete ... you don't think that 90% of the "Muslims" in attendance each day will be undercover agents ?

Rauf has NOT been giving speeches "All over the Muslim world" please provide video evidence that he has claimed the "victory memorial" on more than one occasion ...

I'll have a buddy translate for me instead of a far-right website with an agenda.

[lyon804]

And if the pastor who was raising the money and running the project to build the church was speaking all over the world telling Christians that the church was a Victory Memorial to the murder of your family? And those Christians were holding celebrations in the street in honor of the Victory? Then how would you feel?

excellent point made here. You won't get a response though. The gay liberals of this country are the downtrodden of society that have always been the underdog and they will argue just for the sake of arguing. Almost like arguing with a woman. A woman will argue with you even if she has not point just for the sake of arguing. In all honestly if I had things my way I would ship off all the gay,white liberals of society before i did the illegals alliens and thugs of the world. I can understand the latters issues and motivations much better than I can the white people.

[jw]

excellent point made here.

Nope - not an excellent point - its a made-up "fear" talking point from some right wing nut-job who wants a bigger campaign donation.
Using your same arguments against you ... wasn't religious intolerance one of the cornerstones of the late-great Nazi party ... that turned out well didn't it ?

[Z_Wipf]

excellent point made here. You won't get a response though. The gay liberals of this country are the downtrodden of society that have always been the underdog and they will argue just for the sake of arguing. Almost like arguing with a woman. A woman will argue with you even if she has not point just for the sake of arguing. In all honestly if I had things my way I would ship off all the gay,white liberals of society before i did the illegals alliens and thugs of the world. I can understand the latters issues and motivations much better than I can the white people.

Hah see conservatives? This is what you look like to the rest of the world.

[pronk]

So because a very small group of people did something bad that literally BILLIONS of Muslims should be treated differently? That has to be the most ignorant thing I have ever heard. Let .000000000000000000000000000000000000000 0000000000001% of a religion make your mind about it. Smart

Our constitution was written by a FREE men and it was intended to be used by a FREE society and every muslim country is against any kind of democracy because they're enslaved to their demonic beliefs. And if you hate freedom- you're not entitled to use it for your evil masterplan.



That's how close muslim bastards want to bring this "cordoba mosque" in NYC.

[jw]

every muslim country is against any kind of democracy

You want to justify this outlandish statement Mr fear-monger ?

[Z_Wipf]

No he can't because he doesn't know shit about Islam but he chooses to rant about it. Some people did a bad thing so now we rebuild and continue on as a free country. If you are against that then you are against our constitution. If you are against our constitution then you are against America and you are free to get your ******* ass out of my country.

[Naz18]

Already a "mosque" 4 blocks from ground zero....this wouldn't even be barely any news if it wasn't for the elections coming up....

Pronk what does it have to do with muslim countries....you can be American...born in America and choose Islam as your faith..

[curious]

Nope - not an excellent point - its a made-up "fear" talking point from some right wing nut-job who wants a bigger campaign donation.
Using your same arguments against you ... wasn't religious intolerance one of the cornerstones of the late-great Nazi party ... that turned out well didn't it ?

This has nothing to do with religion. Islam is a fascist political ideology. Rauf is giving speeches all over the world promoting sharia, which is the domination of a country's legal system by the Islam legal system. Rauf wants to commemorate the Jihadist victory, he says so himself.

His speeches are easy to find, google for them yourself. I already posted a book cover that in Arabic says "A Call to Prayer from the World Trade Center Rubble: Islamic Dawa in the Heart of America Post-9/11". In English the book title reads: "What’s Right with Islam Is What’s Right with America".

I'm not sure what right wing nut job you are talking about. I didn't get this information from a blog, I listened to the speeches, read transcripts of them, and read pamphlets and books that Rauf is promoting or has written.

The information is easily accessible. But since I am sure you won't try to educate yourself on the true facts of Imam Rauf, but will instead hide behind the "this information came from a right wing nutjob therefore I can ignore it" shield of the purposefully ignorant, I will give you an excerpt of an article written by Rauf that was published in the Jordanian newspaper that your Arabic speaking buddy can verify for you.

Imam Rauf of Ground Zero Mosque.

“People asked me right after the 9/11 attack as to why do movements with political agendas carry [Islamic] religious names? Why call it ‘Muslim Brotherhood’ or ‘Hezbollah (Party of Allah)’ or ‘Hamas’ or ‘Islamic Resistance Movement’? I answer them this—that the trend towards Islamic law and justice begins in religious movements, because secularism had failed to deliver what the Muslim wants, which is life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

He said “ The only law that the Muslim needs exists already in the Koran and the Hadith.”

From an article titled “Sharing The Essence Of Our Beliefs” by Feisal Abdul Rauf, Al-Ghad Newspaper in Jordan, 5/9/2009

In this article Rauf admits that Islam is a political ideology and that their true agenda is worldwide sharia.

There are many more articles, interviews, and speeches of Rauf available on the net, find them yourself. But, get the Arabic version, because the English versions are extremely dishonest.

[curious]

Nope - not an excellent point - its a made-up "fear" talking point from some right wing nut-job who wants a bigger campaign donation.
Using your same arguments against you ... wasn't religious intolerance one of the cornerstones of the late-great Nazi party ... that turned out well didn't it ?

I made the point, I am not a politician, not running for any office, do not have a blog and don't want money (or anything else) from anyone.

[jw]

... so you can't point me to more than one example of the phrase " Victory Memorial" in any of his speeches?
If not - i will assume that you are just making this shit up as you go along.

[curious]

... so you can't point me to more than one example of the phrase " Victory Memorial" in any of his speeches?
If not - i will assume that you are just making this shit up as you go along.

Assume whatever you want.