[itchypickle]

Obama is hosting a Ramadan dinner at the White House and chooses that as his coming out in support for the mosque being built near the towers site Can't say I'm surprised.

[Hotdiggity11]

Good for Obama, supporting the 1st Amendment rights of everyone.

[itchypickle]

Odd that he tried to 'stay above it' last week and said it's a local issue...yet here he goes again...and once more he chooses the side opposite of the people. I'm just shocked that he chose this timing...approval is dropping like a rock and his own party is running away from him...so why not choose a muslim holiday to come out in support for a controversial issue on that side. He should have taken the time to write a check from his nobel peace prize award fund to reimburse the American people for the tax dollars spent flying his family to spain last week at a time when 'we all have to make sacrifices' in this economy according to him. Don't get me wrong...let them go wherever and whenever they want..just do it on their own dime...they can afford not to use our tax dollars for it.

[Data]

Odd that he tried to 'stay above it' last week and said it's a local issue...yet here he goes again...and once more he chooses the side opposite of the people.

You must have forgotten that he had "a teachable moment" not too long ago. Now he knows NOT to immediately throw his unquestionable support to the side he is deeply attached to.

[Hotdiggity11]

The Constitution has precedence above public opinion. Especially on something as basic as Freedom of Religion.

[itchypickle]

The Constitution has precedence above public opinion. Especially on something as basic as Freedom of Religion.

I agree that legally they have every right to build. But being that this center being proposed is 'meant to build bridges and repair relations'....it's doing the direct opposite. But I'm willing to bet it will never be built

[Andy117]

Itchy, there's a mosque four blocks away from Ground Zero. This issue is being hyped because we're in an election year.

**edit**

And it predates the construction of the Towers.

Where is it? Google search just got me links on the proposed center.

[itchypickle]

Itchy, there's a mosque four blocks away from Ground Zero. This issue is being hyped because we're in an election year.

**edit**

And it predates the construction of the Towers.

Yes I'm aware of that. Notice I agreed they have EVERY legal right to build this community center that houses a mosque...that's not an issue for me. My issue is that the leader of the group is said to be proactive in outreach....if that's the case...you don't start from a point of contention that is emotional to the other side....you take the funding and build elsewhere...as a show of understanding and sympathy...IF that is the intention.

[Hotdiggity11]

I don't understand the opposition's point of view on this. 9-11 was traumatic for the entire country, but it does not give us the right to perpetrate our revenge on the entire world and our own people indefinitely.

To build there is their constitutional right, and they believe, their cultural imperative. The importance of this cannot be overstated. They are not building a war memorial or a shrine to radical Islam, they're building a church and community center. Its presence will serve and enrich the community, provided that assholes don't take it upon themselves to destroy it. Even the mayor of New York City is in support of the organization building it.

The first amendment should trump all considerations here. It was explicitly added by our founding fathers because they know what nutjobs human beings can be about religion.

[itchypickle]

I don't understand the opposition's point of view on this, apart from fears of violence. 9-11 was traumatic for the entire country, but it does not give us the right to perpetrate our revenge on the entire world and our own people indefinitely.

To build there is their constitutional right, and they believe, their cultural imperative. The importance of this cannot be overstated. They are not building a war memorial or a shrine to radical Islam, they're building a church and community center. Its presence will serve and enrich the community, provided that assholes don't take it upon themselves to destroy it. Even the mayor of New York City is in support of the organization building it.

The first amendment should trump all considerations here. It was explicitly added by our founding fathers because they know what nutjobs human beings can be about religion.


----


Suffice it to say, I support this on a constitutional basis only. I still think it's a really bad idea.

I'll try this again...follow along with me man, I know you're a smart guy so this is getting frustrating...I BELIEVE THEY HAVE THE RIGHT UNDER THE LAW AND CONSTITUTION TO BUILD ...with me here?
But I DON'T believe it's the moral way to try and 'enrich the community' is what I said.

[DwightShrute]

if Obama had the balls to say "listen I know they have the right to build it but it's in bad taste, so I cannot support it and I hope all contractors and suppliers will do the same" he would get the American people behind him including myself.

Unfortunately he rather say idiotic things like that. Well, at least he's consistently anti-American. He should be primed for another world wide apology tour now.

[itchypickle]

if Obama had the balls to say "listen I know they have the right to build it but it's in bad taste, so I cannot support it and I hope all contractors and suppliers will do the same" he would get the American people behind him including myself.

Unfortunately he rather say idiotic things like that. Well, at least he's consistently anti-American. He should be primed for another world wide apology tour now.

That would be the way to go...shows logic and understanding for both sides.

[DwightShrute]

[The fiddler]

When the federal government bans Christian churches near the Murrah building in Oklahoma city...then I'll give a shit. Yes. McVeigh was a Christian.

[brooks85]

i had not realized McVeigh declared a jihad on anyone before his attack because he was catholic*

Mcveighs attack had nothing to do with religion.

[DwightShrute]

When the federal government bans Christian churches near the Murrah building in Oklahoma city...then I'll give a shit. Yes. McVeigh was a Christian.

very very weak

[brooks85]

It is disgusting they are building this mosque. And you know its wrong when the description has to be changed from "mosque" to "prayer center."

GTFO

[The fiddler]

i had not realized McVeigh declared a jihad on anyone before his attack because he was catholic*

Mcveighs attack had nothing to do with religion.

True...and the attacks on 9-11 had nothing to do with religion either. Maybe you need to use your google button and type in bin ladin reason for 9-11...and he will tell you the exact reasons....by statement...and not one peep out of him regarding killing Americans over religion...Not one.

After you look it up, then get back to me.

[The fiddler]

OK Brooks85...I did your work for you. In 04, bin Ladin came clean on his reasons for hitting the towers. Not one word regarding religion. Not one.

The War Party members on these boards want to see the Muslims and the Christians go all 14th Century on us. Inquisitions, Crusades..it's all good....to you "I love war" crowd.

http://www.seattlepi.com/frontpage/s...x220041030.pdf

[brooks85]

ok let me help you out here since you did so much work already.


ready for this...


Who were flying the planes? and why?


assuming you get those right, risky on my part, you will realize the attack was influenced by religion.

[The fiddler]

ok let me help you out here since you did so much work already.


ready for this...


Who were flying the planes? and why?


assuming you get those right, risky on my part, you will realize the attack was influenced by religion.

You lazy ****...Try to find even one quote from bin Ladin or Al Quada generals stating that the attack was against our way of life, our freedoms, or for religious reasons. In the whole wide world of cyberspace...you won't find even one quote that backs up your erroneous misconceptions. go...I got all week.

Who flew the planes? 15 Saudis and 4 Jordanians if I remember correctly...

The reasons? There were 3 reasons given. Now listen carefully...

1. The US occupation in several Arab countries.
2. Sanctions against Iraq which starved 500,000 million kids under the age of 5
3. And the US backing of the expansionary Israeli forces in Gaza and the West bank.

That's it, The end. Sayanara.

It was as much about religion as was McVeigh's religion when he bombed the Murrah building.

One day...you neocons will get off your asses and read up on the facts. I have to correct you people time after time after time....a tiresome job indeed..but one that must be done.

[Carseller4]

As the first Muslim president why wouldn't Obama approve of this?

[brooks85]

You lazy ****...Try to find even one quote from bin Ladin or Al Quada generals stating that the attack was against our way of life, our freedoms, or for religious reasons. In the whole wide world of cyberspace...you won't find even one quote that backs up your erroneous misconceptions. go...I got all week.

Who flew the planes? 15 Saudis and 4 Jordanians if I remember correctly...

The reasons? There were 3 reasons given. Now listen carefully...

1. The US occupation in several Arab countries.
2. Sanctions against Iraq which starved 500,000 million kids under the age of 5
3. And the US backing of the expansionary Israeli forces in Gaza and the West bank.

That's it, The end. Sayanara.

It was as much about religion as was McVeigh's religion when he bombed the Murrah building.

One day...you neocons will get off your asses and read up on the facts. I have to correct you people time after time after time....a tiresome job indeed..but one that must be done.

you are ignorant if you think that is why THOSE MEN flew planes into towers. They did because they were brainwashed with religion. Mcveighs attack had ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with religion, so you are clearly an idiot for bringing it up. What looks even worse is the guy who said "good posting. " Religion is brainwashing, a good tool osama uses. You remind me a lot of the Emily Haines poster.

[lyon804]

Wow, I love how the libbies are giving homage to "Constitutional Right" when it appeases them. When the libbies don't agree with the "Constitution" then it is called 'OUTDATED'. Which is it? In this particular example I would like to plead the libby cause of being "outdated"

[itchypickle]

McVeigh didn't yell Allahu Jesus when he blew up the Murray building...his beef was political...NOT religious. 9/11 actors...Richard Reid's shoe bomb..underwear bomber...Ft Hood's Hassan....and the 'American Taliban' kid....are all motivated by religion...period. THAT is the difference.

[andywend]

Good for Obama, supporting the 1st Amendment rights of everyone.

The Constitution has precedence above public opinion. Especially on something as basic as Freedom of Religion.

Since left-wing liberals like Hotdiggity and Fiddler are hell bent on defending the rights of Muslims, I might as well defend their religious right and duty to exterminate all non-believers as long as they limit the exterminations to the same left-wing liberals who so vigorously support them.

It was explicitly added by our founding fathers because they know what nutjobs human beings can be about religion.

Our "founding fathers" also believed that only white, male, literate landowners should be allowed to vote and they also strongly believed in "poll taxes". You can't pick and choose the beliefs of our founding forefathers only when it agrees with your liberal views.

If you want to scrap all but the first 10 amendments of the constitution (the first 10 amendments were a part of the original constitution) then you have my 100% support since without those extra added amendments, no democratic candidate would ever win another election.

[lyon804]

Since left-wing liberals like Hotdiggity and Fiddler are hell bent on defending the rights of Muslims, I might as well defend their religious right and duty to exterminate all non-believers as long as they limit the exterminations to the same left-wing liberals who so vigorously support them.Our "founding fathers" also believed that only white, male, literate landowners should be allowed to vote and they also strongly believed in "poll taxes". You can't pick and choose the beliefs of our founding forefathers only when it agrees with your liberal views.

If you want to scrap all but the first 10 amendments of the constitution (the first 10 amendments were a part of the original constitution) then you have my 100% support since without those extra added amendments, no democratic candidate would ever win another election.

I find this very funny. Reading libbies talking about 'CONSTITUTION' 'FOUNDING FATHERS'. Those are 3 words that never come out of a liberals mouth except this scenario as it supports there views.


last i checked according to most libbies the constitution was outdated. Doesn't seem it is anymore.