[sammyb]

All you do is complain

I think its about time that we come up with some suggestions on how neteller could get you your money

Lets start up a list of things that neteller could do to pay you guys and get Bill to contact them with the best ones

And please this is a no bitching post so keep your complaining for another post only helpfull sugeations please

[Dark Horse]

I think we're all out of suggestions, bud.

They're thieves. That's not a complaint. That's a fact.

[David]

Move to Canada!

If there are any Canadians on here that can help me out please shoot me a pm.

[ShamsWoof10]

I wonder if you can transfer from one american neteller account to a NON american neteller account and get it out that way... Just a thought....

[TLD]

There is no way.

One by one, everything that was available has been eliminated by Neteller.

And no, not because each of those methods became impossible or difficult due to actions of the United States government or American banks. Some did (e.g., EFTs, checks identifiably from Neteller, ATM card withdrawals), and some did not (e.g., checks not identifiably from Neteller, transfers to other Neteller members, purchases of non-gambling items, and transfers to oneself after relocating to another country). Hell, people have even offered to fly to Neteller and pick up their money in person. They were turned down.

And it’s certainly not because all that money has been seized. The amounts kicked around in the press—even assuming they are accurate—are a minute fraction of the money Americans have on account with Neteller.

So no matter how many times you want to repeat, “Don’t blame Neteller; they would pay you if they could, but your own government is preventing them from doing so,” it is pure and simply false.

Neteller is a stiff, same as BOS, same as any of the others who have stolen from we who gamble offshore. Whether it’s because they simply prefer to keep the money, or it’s because they’re trying to encourage leniency for their former owners by sucking up to the United States government by showing a willingness to punish Americans who engage in behavior the government is trying to prevent, or it’s for some other reason entirely, Neteller is a stiff operation.

Too much complaining? There has been entirely too little complaining about these crooks.

[Santo]

If they're stiff, why pay the rest of the world? Why do companies like Betfair happily continue to use them, presumably exposing themselves to risk when they have little to gain (most people who use NT would still use BF, just with another funding method)..

[TLD]

Originally Posted by Santo

If they're stiff, why pay the rest of the world?

Because the circumstances differ.

Neteller has decided that as things stand now, when they calculate the money they get to keep, the impact what they are doing will have on the fate of their two former owners, the impact what they are doing will have on their reputation amongst the individuals and businesses they intend to continue to service, plus whatever else they are factoring in, on balance they will gain more than they will lose by stiffing their American customers. If and when the circumstance change to where the calculations come out otherwise, they will presumably change their present course of action.

When they calculate their self-interest on the question of stiffing their non-American customers, they have concluded that at present they are better off not doing so.

Thus they are crooks like ESB rather than crooks like Aces Gold. They choose to stiff some of their customers but remain in business and continue to service others.

Originally Posted by Santo

Why do companies like Betfair happily continue to use them, presumably exposing themselves to risk when they have little to gain (most people who use NT would still use BF, just with another funding method)..

The individuals and companies that continue to use Neteller have presumably done their own risk/reward analysis and decided that the circumstances are such that the risk of their being treated by Neteller the way Neteller’s American customers have been is low enough that it is surpassed by the reward of continuing to use Neteller. I don’t know enough about Betfair, its customers preferences in funding methods, etc. to know if the cost/benefit analysis they’ve done to continue doing business with thieves is a wise one relative to their self-interest.

It may well be. Just as if I move to another country it’s possible I’ll decide to use Neteller (very, very carefully, leaving as small as possible balances there for as short a period of time as possible).

That doesn’t change the fact that they’re able to pay some or all of their American customers and, for now at least, have wrongfully chosen not to.

[Dark Horse]

Couple of questions.

- How much money does Neteller owe Americans?

- And what are the chances of a successful lawsuit against Neteller?

I wouldn't expect a precise answer to the second question. It is more a question why such a lawsuit is not being organized by Americans.

[Dark Horse]

Originally Posted by Santo

If they're stiff, why pay the rest of the world?

Have you not heard of books that selectively pay gamblers and stiff others? Same thing.

Neteller is in the business of transferring funds from A to B. I can ask the same service from UPS or Fedex. If for some reason Fedex decides they no longer want to deliver my packages, I have no real problem with that. I'll just take my business elsewhere. The problem arises when they refuse to return the mail I had already entrusted them with! That is completely beyond belief. And it is illegal in any business I have ever come across.

There is no excuse. And for this type of breach of trust any financial service deserves to be taken down. All the way to the ground.

[Dark Horse]

Googled this.

SBC to Write Off $11 Billion as NETeller Customers Contemplate Suit

EUROPE’s biggest bank, HSBC, is to write off $11 billion to cover mounting losses in its troubled American offshoot, HSBC Finance Corporation. This according to a report featured in Sunday's Times of London.

HSBC’s US business has faced escalating losses from thousands of low-income families who have been unable to repay loans. But the scale of its write-off, largely linked to the US business, will surprise many investors, the report says.

HSBC is also taking some heat for conducting business with third party online payment processor, NETeller, which catered exclusively to the internet gambling industry. Two co-founders in that company were arrested and face trial on various charges ranging from racketeering to money laundering. Even worse, NETeller refuses to pay some millions of dollars owed to US gamblers.

Affected customers have joined forces to consider legal remedies against NETeller.

"On the lawsuit front there are players with deposits totaling 130K willing to join the suit after one week," a representative for those owed money by NETeller told Gambling911.com Monday.

Affected NETeller customers have not ruled out naming HSBC in any potential lawsuit, though the chances of this happening are probably less likely.

"No longer should NETeller be aloud to hide behind A governmental inquiry and allegations that HSBC has refused to do business with them. Why is no one talking class action lawsuit? these people have de-frauding innocent Americans. I think US account holders could potentially maintain several causes of action against both of these companies. HSBC has numerous assets in the United States and is publicly traded.

"The pressure from a large public lawsuit has the potential to get their attention, at the very least. We are talking about tens of millions of dollars here. Have these people lost their minds? I am sick of waiting and reading about what may happen in the future, I want to pursue suing these people in Federal Court. They cannot be allowed to skate like this."

Shares in HSBC closed the week at 886p — 10p off their low for the past 12 months— valuing the company at £102 billion.

----

Christopher Costigan, Gambling911.com

Originally published March 5, 2007 11:33 am ET

[sammyb]

Are you Americans deaf

I said No bitching JUST HELPFUL SUGESTIONS

If you have nothing constructive to say please dont post

[Dark Horse]

Oh, that's right. Helpful suggestions only.

Here's one.

Class action lawsuit against Neteller.

[sammyb]

Not helping anyone esspecially yourself

[Dark Horse]

If you want to discuss Neteller, fine. But if you only want to hear what you want to hear, without looking at the facts, why come to a forum? A monologue in the mirror will do just fine.

As already explained, Neteller has cut off all alternative routes for Americans to take their money out. The only decision left is whether to wait it out and hope for the best, or take legal action.

If you prefer to discuss it with Neteller's board of directors, here you go:
http://www.neteller-group.com/conten..._directors.htm


Board of Directors
* Gordon Herman, Executive Chairman
* Ron Martin, Group President & Chief Executive Officer
* Dale Johnson, President of Asia Pacific Operations
* Don Lindsay, Non-Executive Director
* John Hamilton Webster, Non-Executive Director

[sammyb]

whinge whinge whinge

neteller has had all options to pay you guys taken away by BUSH do stop bitching about neteller and start bitching about your own government

I dont think that you want to face the facts that if it wasnt for BUSH you would have had axess to your money all along

Like I was trying to say in my post what do you sugest neteller do

Please enlighten me

[Dark Horse]

If it wasn't for Bush...
I could open up an entire parallel universe if we start out from that point, but that is not the reality. So why even go there?

Neteller is accused of money laundering, and that accusation may well stick. Do you understand that accusation? Or do you prefer to hide behind some empty political statement that has nothing to do with the accusation?

To answer your question. Neteller can pay all of us. What they should do? Pay.

I understand there is political backlash against America, but don't direct it towards me buddy. I have been one of the most vocal opponents of the Bush regime from the outset, and I certainly don't appreciate Europeans getting on their high horses telling Americans it's their own fault. This is not Europe against America. This is about a company cheating fellow gamblers out of their money.

[Dark Horse]

By the way, I have no money in Neteller. Took it out immediately after the arrests. But it p*sses me off that my friends still have money there.

You can learn a lot about somebody when you put him under pressure. When the chips are down the true character comes out. The same goes for a company.

Neteller's character is out on the table now for all to see. It takes many years to build a reputation of trust and integrity. Only a few minutes to destroy it. The writing is on the wall.

As to the political climate, sammyb, you never know where fascism will rear its ugly head. Along with my good friends I did my part in fighting it tooth and nail here (not all will agree that America is very close to full-blown fascism, but that's another matter). All I can say is, I hope you too will one day have this chance where you live. Or would it be nicer to say that I wish this opportunity will pass you by?

[slash]

You wouldn't complain if you had thousands of your hard earned money stolen?

[raiders72002]

If you want to discuss Neteller, fine. But if you only want to hear what you want to hear, without looking at the facts, why come to a forum? A monologue in the mirror will do just fine.

[capitalist pig]

I have no suggestions how to get the money, but do have one on the neteller topic.

My suggestion would be not to start threads about neteller if you dont want to hear the bitching.

later

[SBR_John]

My bitching hasn't even started yet. Well, it has a little.

I think there is about a 25% chance we will get paid by the end of the year.

[Willie Bee]

Originally Posted by sammyb

Are you Americans deaf

Nope, hear just fine, thank you. Started off hearing you bitch about the USA whining, then you made a rule that there wasn't any bitching as soon as you were done bitching. Blow your own hypocrisy out your ear. If you want a thread full of something constructive, then don't start it off in a destructive manner.

[marc]

Originally Posted by sammyb

Are you Americans deaf

I said No bitching JUST HELPFUL SUGESTIONS

If you have nothing constructive to say please dont post

The real question is are you deaf or do you just not understand english. Posters have already told you simple ways Neteller could pay if they wanted to, but they for all practical purposes froze our funds.

In case you were to lazy to read, here is how they could pay without interference from the US

1) peer to peer. but neteller shut this down
2) let us use our funds with non-gambling merchant - neteller shut this down
3) simply wire our funds to a non-US bank account. Neteller refused.
4) pay us with a bank check - neteller refused

Once again this has nothing to do with inability or ability to pay, its about Neteller's refulsal to pay.

The reason no legal action has occured yet, is siply becuase before player want to incur legal fees, we want to see if Neteller will pay on thier own.. But i would say time is running out for neteller.

[durito]

The facts are that players have offereed Neteller many different ways to get them their money and the company has refused and even blocked what had previously been sucessful methods.

No matter what country I'm living in, there is no chance I would ever use Neteller again. I can't believe people sitll do.

[increasedodds]

Here's a suggestion.

supposedly about 4 years ago, Bank of America had special teller windows where you could deposit cash directly to Neteller. I've been told citibank offered the same, but do not know for sure.

Unfortunately, I never used the teller because there was a cap of like $500 or $1000 cash instantly deposited to neteller.

Clearly BOA (ANd maybe Citi) were directly aiding a criminal enterprise and money laundering for a profit if the DOJ's contention that neteller was illegal stands.

Someone who deposited through one of these tellers and now has money stuck should file suit in federal court in the S. district of NY against BOA or Citi for promoting a "criminal enterprise" and for return of your funds.

If this gets into the mainstream news, the S. district of NY will have a very big nightmare - either drop charges or possibly have to charge 2 of America's largest corporations with the exact same thing. If I filed the suit, I'd send releases about it via fax to every major gambling/leisure/sports editor in the country.

Anyone here use one of these tellers and now stiffed?


-Sean

[chris tonkin]

Just got a bankwire from neteller for 4k thanks neteller.

[ShamsWoof10]

Originally Posted by sammyb

whinge whinge whinge

neteller has had all options to pay you guys taken away by BUSH do stop bitching about neteller and start bitching about your own government

I dont think that you want to face the facts that if it wasnt for BUSH you would have had axess to your money all along

Like I was trying to say in my post what do you sugest neteller do

Please enlighten me

First off before you are enlightened about what Neteller should do I am going to rip your as* about your stupidity... I used to think Europeans were smarter then Amercians which is really not true at all and a few UK people on here really illustrate this... Bush can barely read a teleprompter do you honestly think he makes decisions of any kind.? I wouldn't be suprised if he spelled his name wrong when he signed the bill... I am gong to rip anyone who mentions Bush and how we voted for him as the reason why Neteller should just freeze assests or why Americans can't gamble online... THEY STILL ARE and THEY ARE STILL ALLOWED IN MOST STATES!!!

Now to point out the obvious for you idiots... NETELLER SHOULD GIVE THE CUSTOMERS ACCESS TO GETTING THEIR MONEY BACK... Is that too hard for you to undertand..? They won't even allow Neteller account to Neteller account transfers and that has nothing to do with Bush you idiot.... I think that was a good suggestion by Incrodds and what you may be looking for SAM but don't be stupid and not expect someone to come on here and bi*ch about it because I for one will.... If you suck Neteller so much then tell us.. what do you think Neteller should to do..?