[vanman]

can anyone enlighten me on the situation in the US,as i understand it you can still place wagers online with books in US but not with books that are in say the west indies.What is the reasoning behind this,will this have an indirect effect on the UK and european market or is that pretty safe for the time being.Will these books in the states be switching currencies from dollars to either gbp or euros?Or is this a case of they want to outlaw gambling completely.

[azkid]

what a dumb post.

[vanman]

it might be dumb to you wise ass,but for someone living in the UK like me who hasn`t read anything about it because it doesn`t affect me i thought someone might fill in the gaps.Thats obviously not going to be you.Until recently i had never been on a forum.

[Santo]

There are no books in the US.

[azkid]

Well before posting such a retarded question why don't you "read about it."

OK I'll enlighten you:

There are no books based in the US, stupid.

Americans can place bets wherever they want, assuming the sportsbook in question hasn't decided to shut out Americans.

Yes, the US government clearly wants to outlaw offshore online gambling.

The European market is perfectly safe, although the US situation has hurt the finances of some european books.

Does that answer your questions? Now that I've enlightened you, go read about the state of online gambling before posting more idiotic questions that can be easily answered by going to Google News and typing in "Online Gambling."

[trustbutverify]

Accepting a wager on sports is illegal in the US except in nevada, by Government approved casinos.

The USDOJ has decided to enforce past law and new regulation passed last year to eliminate all offshore service to US clients- by arresting book owners when they can and going after third party fund transfer companies as accessories to criminal activity.

The only reason US bettors still have offshore books available is because The USDOJ has not yet been able to apply the necessary pressure to force closure or withdrawl from the US market. It's probably just a matter of time.

The impact of all of this on the non-us sports gambler is really only on those who wager on american sports. Most of the liquidity is gone or at risk

[vanman]

Originally Posted by trustbutverify

Accepting a wager on sports is illegal in the US except in nevada, by Government approved casinos.

The USDOJ has decided to enforce past law and new regulation passed last year to eliminate all offshore service to US clients- by arresting book owners when they can and going after third party fund transfer companies as accessories to criminal activity.

The only reason US bettors still have offshore books available is because The USDOJ has not yet been able to apply the necessary pressure to force closure or withdrawl from the US market. It's probably just a matter of time.

The impact of all of this on the non-us sports gambler is really only on those who wager on american sports. Most of the liquidity is gone or at risk

I find this situation very puzzling,do you not have bookmakers on the high street like in the uk,surely if this situation continues then gambling will go underground like it used to be in the UK before it was made legal.Is it not an infringement of your human rights to say you can`t gamble.

[BigD]

We have bookies who operate illegal in the US and are for the most part underground, other than that the only place you can bet on sports is in Las Vegas

[noyb]

" do you not have bookmakers on the high street like in the uk "

in a majority of countries in the world there is no such thing as a high street bookmaker. the uk is one of the exceptions with regards to open-access legalized gambling shops, not the rest of the world.

[TLD]

Vanman, of course there is nothing wrong with your question. I would suggest simply ignoring the taunts of children and idiots who are an unavoidable nuisance on loosely moderated public message forums such as this. I’ll try to answer your question as best I can.

The only legal sportsbooks within the United States are in the state of Nevada. I don’t believe any of them yet have online betting. Some do, however, offer very limited phone betting, and I assume any online betting they institute would be similarly restricted, and thus largely useless for most players. (The phone betting is limited to customers located in Nevada itself. I have read that it is very low limits and that it can be a fairly cumbersome process—for instance, waiting for them to call you back to confirm your phone is inside Nevada.)

Of course people can and do bet with bookies located in the United States other than those Nevada sportsbooks, but those bookies—“Street bookies” or “locals”—are operating illegally.

So, as far as books that are operating legally in their jurisdiction and provide online betting, these are all located outside the United States. So the question is, can people in the U.S. bet at those books? The answer to this is a little complicated, so I’ll break it up into parts.

First, is it legal for someone in the United States to bet at those books located elsewhere?

Ambiguous, but mostly yes. There are laws at the federal—national—level against gambling, but they have consistently been interpreted to apply to the bookie and not the player. To my knowledge, no player has ever been convicted of violating federal gambling laws (though no doubt players have been convicted for things related to their gambling activity, such as money laundering or evading taxes).

Some believe the law passed in late 2006 changes that and now you are violating federal law if you are gambling with these offshore books from within the United States. In fact, some mainstream media outlets have casually stated or implied just that. However, consensus opinion of those who have actually read the law and have the background to understand such matters is that this is incorrect. Basically the law—more about which below—is a set of banking regulations telling banks to disallow certain types of transactions; it does not change the legal status of the gambling behavior of individuals.

Now, that’s not to say that that or other laws won’t be interpreted in the future in such a way as to go after players. For example, Jay Cohen and his legal team will tell you that based on the written law and prior court rulings, there was no justification to say that operating a sportsbook outside of the United States—in this case WSEX, operating legally in Antigua—and taking action from United States players was somehow violative of United States law, yet he was convicted. So it is certainly not impossible for the government to obtain convictions when it is arguably in the wrong based on the law. But, in any case, it hasn’t happened to a player yet, and without new laws it probably won’t.

That’s on the federal level. Things are different on the state level. Every or almost every of the fifty states has something on their books about gambling that would or might make it illegal to bet with these online books outside the United States. However, these laws are typically archaic and forgotten, or function merely as symbolic disapproval to satisfy some political constituency, and thus far at least have never been enforced. I believe at most there was one case in South Dakota a couple years ago where someone paid a $500 fine or something for online gambling, but that’s about it.

So to summarize, playing at these online sportsbooks is probably legal at the federal level, and probably illegal but no one cares at the state level.

Second, do the online books themselves accept players from the United States?

Some do and some don’t. European, Australian, etc. books have always been hit or miss for that, with more disallowing United States players than allowing them. Caribbean and Latin American books have more typically accepted United States players; in fact almost all of them are basically American bookies catering to an American market who went offshore in the last decade or two rather than continue to operate illegally in the United States.

Following the passage of the aforementioned law in late 2006, things have gotten notably worse for United States players on this score. Quite a few books that previously accepted United States customers have voluntarily ceased doing so, including such useful books as Pinnacle and the Mansion exchange.

However, there are still many, many books that accept players from the United States. As mentioned, most of the Caribbean and Latin American books were set up specifically to cater to the American market; to cut off those customers would basically mean to go out of business.

Third, is it still possible—logistically—for players in the United States to bet at these online books?

This is where the recent law, and the actions various parties have taken in response to it, have dealt the most serious blow to American bettors. If you are in the United States, you probably won’t get in legal trouble betting online, and you probably won’t have any difficulty finding online sportsbooks willing to take your action, but that won’t do you much good if you can’t get your money to and from them, and that’s where the problem lies today.

Neteller and several others that used to process payments to and from United States players to online sportsbooks have either gone out of business or cut off Americans from using their service.

So far there has been no wholesale, systemic change in the American banking system to refuse paper checks coming or going directly or indirectly from sportsbooks or to block bank wires coming or going directly or indirectly to sportsbooks, however there have been reports of scattered, individual cases posted in the forums which are certainly worrisome. (Even before all this, it was already difficult to use credit cards with online sportsbooks, and Paypal and certain other possibilities were gone.)

In short, it is much, much more difficult today for someone in the United States to get money to and from an online sportsbook than it was six months ago, and the situation is very fluid. Whatever works today might not work in a week or a month. Or it might work only for smaller amounts, or with greater risks or delays. Or something might work in a week or a month that doesn’t work today, or perhaps doesn’t even exist today. At this point, we—or I and most of us anyway; I suppose some “insiders” might claim to know otherwise—are very much in the dark about the future. Have we seen only the beginning of the implementation of these recent banking regulations and soon they’ll be cracking down even more harshly on our transactions? Have we seen the worst, and the relevant laws will eventually be repealed or ignored? Will Neteller-type alternatives arise that actually work and can remain in operation?

So I would say the answer to your question about whether players in the United States can bet online is: Not with United States (Nevada) books. Yes, or at least sort of, with books outside the United States (it is probably legal, some such books will and some won’t take United States players, and it is getting increasingly difficult—though by no means yet impossible—to get money to and from these books).

As for “What is the reasoning behind this?” there is no simple answer to that. The motivations of individual voters, government officials, banking personnel, lobbyists, media commentators, etc. is no doubt a mish mash of religious/moral considerations, financial and other self-interest, etc. Gambling is an activity that almost all countries either prohibit outright or restrict significantly. The United States has gone in a more restrictive direction recently, but it ebbs and flows.

As for “Will this have an indirect effect on the UK and European market?” mostly no. I would say the indirect effect would be if a UK or European customer is playing at a book that caters primarily to the American market, that book might find itself in financial difficulty due to losing a good portion of its customer base, and if that causes it to go under, then of course the UK or European customer’s funds are gone as well. The same would apply to using money transfer companies and such that have a primarily United States customer base.

The other thing to watch closely in this regard is if there are any further reports like Big Loser’s claim that a gambling transaction between a non-United States entity and a non-United States bank was seized by the United States due to the currency being U.S. dollars. If that starts happening, then the reach of these laws is a lot greater and more alarming than anticipated. One would certainly, in that case, want to do all one’s online gambling transactions in a different currency, even if one is located in the UK or Europe or otherwise outside the United States.

[ShamsWoof10]

That was a great explanation.. I have to give it credit.. I will add that (in my opinion) the reason for this is NOT to eliminate online gaming but to REGULATE IT!!! This way you will HAVE to pay taxes because they will know where not only this money, but all money will came from.. Global Police State if you will... The beginning of eliminating cash and tracking ALL funds.. By the way just thinking out loud but has anyone tried having a trusting person (relative or good friend) who lives outside the US to open an account for you (let's say Mansion) ? You will have to rely on them to handle your funds but at least you may be able to play there.. Any thoughts on that..?

[acw]

Originally Posted by vanman

will this have an indirect effect on the UK and european market

There is some incorrectness in this sentence!

[vanman]

TLD

[louis]

The boats that sail to nowhere, go out a few miles and throw down an anchor, then come back after a few hours located in Florida and a few other states have sportsbooks.

I also don't think vanman's post should be called dumb. Those who are not knowledgable at all should be able to come here and learn.

[devilonline]

how come there are so many stupid rules, if we have the age to do it why can 't we spend money in whatever we want? but its legal to have an arsenal of weapons in my house?????

Now are the germans that are making their rules and limitations also