[siopow]

I spoke to Sarah(CS) and Andrew(Manager). I couldn't copy and paste the last 20 line of our conversation where Andrew was very rude because of my insufficient computer memory.

Please wait for a site operator to respond.
You are now chatting with 'Sarah'
Sarah: Thank you for contacting customer service. Before you go, don't forget to ask me how Referring a Friend can get you a trip for two to NCAA’s Final Four! What can I do for you today?
BM211979: i'm having a problem loggin on to my account
BM211979: can you check what the problem is
Sarah: May I have your password please?
BM211979:XXXXXX
Sarah: Let me check that for you, one moment please
Sarah: Sir, your account has been block due to suspicious plays on the poker. To unblock your account, we would require a official picture ID and a prove of your deposits, example: copy of your bank statement or so
BM211979: what are you guys talking about. I havent paly poker for a while
BM211979: why would you need a copy of my bank statement
BM211979: are you guys serious? suspicous play for what?
BM211979: I will report this to all the forums.
BM211979: tell me why swould you need a copy of my bank statement.
BM211979: this is invasion of privacy
Sarah: That would be just fine, we have enough reasons to believe you are attempting fraudulent transactions. In order to prove your self right, we will require this information.
Sarah:
BM211979: fraud for what?
BM211979: are u guys kidding me?
BM211979: can you be more specific. fraud of what?
BM211979: i havent been winning
BM211979: i'm freakin loosing and i'm being accused of fraud
Sarah: The bank statment is, as I mentioned before, to prove that your deposits into neteller are legitimate.
Sarah:
BM211979: any deposits from neteller is legitimate. Why don't you just ask me when did I make my deposit
BM211979: what does a bank statement has to do with neteller
BM211979: listen if you don't unlock my account and release my money. i will make sure this will hit the wire and you guys will loose a lot of customers. i have done nothing wrong
BM211979: show me a proof that I commited fraud
BM211979: this is just a tactic of a scam website who wants to steal private info
Sarah: Sir, if your require further information, you can call our toll free number: 1-800-644-6405 and request to talk to a supervisor, but just to let you know, until we don't have this information on file, your account WON'T BE UNBLOCKED
BM211979: fine... i will make sure u loose a lot of customers. I will post this to all the forums right now.
BM211979: and make complaints to all watchdgs
Sarah: May I help you with anything else?
BM211979: yes. tell me exactly why do u need my bank statment.
BM211979: i did my transaction with neteller
BM211979: the transaction wont show on my bank statement.
Sarah: Sir, you would like to call for further information
BM211979: i don't want to call. i want everyting to be recorded on this message. tell me why do u need my bank statement
Sarah: The bank statment is, as I mentioned before, to prove that your deposits into neteller are legitimate.
Sarah:
BM211979: I don't do my transactions on my bank statement. I do it on my neteller account. The transaction will not show on my bank statement.
BM211979: Do you have aneteller account
Sarah: Yes sir, but how did you make your deposit into your neteller account....
BM211979: Do you even know how neteller works
BM211979: I made a transfer 2 years ago
BM211979: I have a neteller debit card
BM211979: since two years i have not used my bank to transfer to neteller
BM211979: to do transaction with neteller. Let me ask you this. Do you have a neteller
BM211979: Do you know how neteller works
Sarah: Well, then send us a statement of Neteller...
Sarah: Yes sir, I do know how Neteller works
BM211979: ok.. so when you make a transaction wil it show on your bank statement
BM211979: ok can you hold. i will cut and paste my neteller statement right now
Sarah: I will transfer you to my supervisor, one moment
Please wait while I transfer the chat to 'Andrew'.

You are now chatting with 'Andrew'
Andrew: Mr. XXXXXXX
Andrew: My name is Andrew as you can see
BM211979: Yes. Why are you guys accusing me of fraud
BM211979: what did i do
Andrew: Your account is been blocked at the time as we believe you have been doing fraudulent transactions
BM211979: all i did is place a bet on sportsbook and play a little poker like 2 weeks ago
Andrew: if you do not send the information required your account will keep been closed!
BM211979: and I'm losing. i have not won. how can that be a fraud
Andrew: If you wish to go to the forums you are more than welcome
Andrew: but I strongly suggest that if you want your account to be re open the you should cooperate with us
BM211979: I will never play here again
Andrew: That is fine too
Andrew: But you will have to send this information
BM211979: This is the worst Ive ever encaountered. I'm losing and im being accused of fraud
Andrew: So you do not want to cooperate??
BM211979: I have experience with a scam book before. They ask for my id and bank statement and then they steal my money
Andrew: I apologize about that, but we are not that sportsbook you are claiming!
BM211979: there is no way I'm going to give my bank statement. I have more money on my bank than what I have with yours
BM211979: I will not risk my money on my bank account
Andrew: if you need further information about us, then I strongly suggest you go to the SBR or directly to the OSGA and ask about us or any other sportsbook
Andrew: That is fine.
Andrew: But your account will remain closed!
BM211979: You were just downgraded from SBR
Andrew: I understand this
BM211979: and you were on a newswire
Andrew: But this is not the issue over here
BM211979: about bad promotions
Andrew: but your account
BM211979: Thats why I dont trsut my personal info with your books
BM211979: I have done nothing wrong
BM211979: send me proof
Andrew: Mr. XXXXXX, apologies, but we are not discussing about betmaker over here but your account
BM211979: this is betmaker right
BM211979: well this one will hit another bad complaints about your company
BM211979: tell me what i have done wrong
---- End of conversion Andrew just terminated our conversation purposely ---

I don't trust this sportsbook with my personal info. I ask them for proof of fraud they don't even know what fraud I committed.

Withdraw your money here because you don't want to be the next victim. You don't want to wake up and experience.

[tacomax]

So they politely asked you to provide some ID (which is a perfectly normal request for sportsbooks) and you throw a hissy fit and run screaming to the forums?

Thanks for the information, siopow. Looks like Betmaker are a pretty legitimate company - I'll definately be opening an account there.

[presley177]

Originally Posted by tacomax

So they politely asked you to provide some ID (which is a perfectly normal request for sportsbooks) and you throw a hissy fit and run screaming to the forums?

Thanks for the information, siopow. Looks like Betmaker are a pretty legitimate company - I'll definately be opening an account there.

id is normal procedure but bank statement as well?

I'm reserving judgement.

[diamond]

Agree with taco, this is normal procedure, even bankstatement. I had to send it several times to bookies with good reputation.

To be fair I think siopow really jumped out aggressively against them. They just asked polite for some documents which is normal. Send them and you will be fine I guess. Its always a bad tendency to use forums for every minor case. Its always better to solve it with the sportsbook first. This post is a perfect example of overreaction when not knowing about procedures.

[siopow]

I have account with other sportsbook and I have been playing for two years online. I never been asked for my bank statement nor netller statement. I'm willing to send my Photo ID(that's normal). But I don't trust this scam site with my bank statement and netller statement. I can send them the date and time of my neteller transaction when I made my deposit. But I don't want them to know what my transactions are on my bank statement nor netller statement. That's invasion of PRIVACY.

[siopow]

I dealt with scam site before. And they asked the same info and I never recieved my money once they received that info. I have lots of money on my bank and I would never risk my bank with them. I have been hearing so many frauds going on in the internet where they can wipe out your funds with giving all that info.

[tacomax]

Originally Posted by presley177

id is normal procedure but bank statement as well?

I'm reserving judgement.

Of course I'm reseerving judgement as well. But it's a typical MO of a scammer to use phrases such as "I will report this to all the forums" and "make complaints to all watchdgs [sic]" in their correspondance with the book in question.

[siopow]

TACOMAX. Do you work for BETMAKER? How do you feel to be accused of fraud? If Betmaker doesn't even know what the fraud is? and how do you feel if someone accuse you of a fraud even if your losing money? I made my transactions using neteller. I believe that when you use neteller normally a sportsbook would never ask for ID nor bank statement.

BETMAKER is abusing the players right because they have our money. They can do whatever they want with our money if we don't follow what they say. The only thing a player can do is asked help from other players or ask help from watchdog.

[gamblingman]

Betmaker was giving free $10 bet alittle while ago, I was able to test the book and they seemed straight up, as with all books you never know until you make a withdrawal but they seemed alright to me.

[Winston Smith]

If Betmaker doesn't even know what the fraud is? and how do you feel if someone accuse you of a fraud even if your losing money?

You said this several times in you conversation with them, too. They're accusing you of fraudulent transactions, not bets. Winning and losing has nothing at all to do with how you're funding your account.

[tacomax]

Originally Posted by siopow

TACOMAX. Do you work for BETMAKER? How do you feel to be accused of fraud? If Betmaker doesn't even know what the fraud is? and how do you feel if someone accuse you of a fraud even if your losing money? I made my transactions using neteller. I believe that when you use neteller normally a sportsbook would never ask for ID nor bank statement.

I don't work for Betmaker. Neither I have I been accused of fraud. But if they asked me for some ID as they did with you then I'd be more than happy to provide it without threatening them and then running to the forums and accusing them of running a scam.

Originally Posted by siopow

BETMAKER is abusing the players right because they have our money. They can do whatever they want with our money if we don't follow what they say. The only thing a player can do is asked help from other players or ask help from watchdog.

They're not abusing you. They've asked for ID and you've refused to provide it. I can only think of one reason why you don't want to provide your ID.

[siopow]

TACOMAX.Are you reading all my post? I posted before I'm willing to provide my PHOTO ID if they tell me what they are accusing me of. But I will definetely not send my bank statement and neteller statement(I will only provide neteller deposit confirmation). My bank has nothing to do with my gambling.

THIS IS AN INVASION OF PRIVACY...

[siopow]

ONLINE GAMBLING IS ILLEGAL IN THE U.S. Now these bookmakers are asking for bank statement. That's so rediculious.

[tacomax]

Originally Posted by siopow

TACOMAX.Are you reading all my post? I posted before I'm willing to provide my PHOTO ID if they tell me what they are accusing me of.

Yes, I can read thankyou. I use ID in the context of any requested information required by the sportsbook to provide your identity and the identity of your originating deposits. And it also enables me to write "ID" instead of "bank statement and neteller statement" to save time.

But since I've had waste time to explain myself in detail then it was a fruitless abbreviation.

Originally Posted by siopow

THIS IS AN INVASION OF PRIVACY...

It's an invasion of privacy to provide them with your passport, but you're willing to do that. Why is there a problem with your bank account details? Unless you're trying to scam the sportsbook, I can't think of a single reason why you won't provide the information. Personally, I'd be more than happy to provide them with it to clarify the situation.

[siopow]

I wouldn't want to send my bank statement nor neteller statement to any other party because I was instructed by my bank. Bank statement info are your activity and any theif can steal your money when you provide that info.

TACOMAX I think you need to should consult your bank . But if you dont have money in your bank then you could send all your info to any party.

[tacomax]

Tell, you what, contact Bill Dozer at assistance@sportsbookreview.com and see what he can do. You are really wasting your time calling this book a scam on gambling forums - to me (and I'm sure others here) you're displaying all the hallmarks of a scammer yourself.

[Mudcat]

Originally Posted by tacomax

Tell, you what, contact Bill Dozer at assistance@sportsbookreview.com and see what he can do. You are really wasting your time calling this book a scam on gambling forums - to me (and I'm sure others here) you're displaying all the hallmarks of a scammer yourself.

Taco is right. I sure don't see how posting that transcript is going to help you. There's nothing of substance there. The only impressions I get are that you seem panicky, desperate and cornered while Betmaker seems very professional, direct and patient.

But none of that proves anything. I'm just saying.

My suggestion: act professional in return. Be calm, phone them, work with them.

[natrass]

You didnt remember to ask about how you could get a trip for two to the NCAA's final four !!

I do have sympathy though. Basically, the book has YOUR money and they are talking to you along the lines of "do what we say, we are not going to bother explaining. If you dont we keep your money". This is extremely poor.

I can fully understand how annoying it must be ... I also regard requesting MULTIPLE forms of ID and documents to be a very gross invasion of privacy and something in which they have the duty to explain clearly why this is necessary.

That said, you did fly at them a little and threatening them with the forums so early ... well you kind of used up all your leverage in the first ten sentences.

Also, I always reserve judgement on collusion claims as I dont know enough about the scams, etc.

I think if you had asked more clearly exactly what you were being accused of then we would all be a little wiser.

Still, appaling attitude from the CS .. they know they can talk to you like this because they have your money, etc. And that is ALWAYS wrong .. you are the customer.

And, finally, I wouldnt hold your breath about the tickets for two to the NCAAs final four. But thats just gut instinct.

[isetcap]

siopow = edc0218

[Ganchrow]

Originally Posted by tacomax

Yes, I can read thankyou. I use ID in the context of any requested information required by the sportsbook to provide your identity and the identity of your originating deposits. And it also enables me to write "ID" instead of "bank statement and neteller statement" to save time.

But since I've had waste time to explain myself in detail then it was a fruitless abbreviation.

It's an invasion of privacy to provide them with your passport, but you're willing to do that. Why is there a problem with your bank account details? Unless you're trying to scam the sportsbook, I can't think of a single reason why you won't provide the information. Personally, I'd be more than happy to provide them with it to clarify the situation.

Without speaking to either the veracity or tone of the OP's transcript, I strongly believe that without either a stated policy to that effect made clear at signup or considerable evidence of wrongdoing, Betmaker has absolutely no right to require a player to divulge personal banking information.

[isetcap]

Originally Posted by ganchrow

Without speaking to either the veracity or tone of the OP's transcript, I strongly believe that without either a stated policy to that effect made clear at signup or considerable evidence of wrongdoing, Betmaker has absolutely no right to require a player to divulge personal banking information.

I agree.

BUT

In this specific case, it is likely there is considerable evidence of wrongdoing and I would be surprised if their Terms and Conditions have not been written in such a manner to allow them to make such a request.

[siopow]

TACOMAZ, ISETCAP. you mean to say you have no problem sending your bank statement and neteller statement to a scam book. Even though they don't know what they are accusing of.
That's obvious that you guys work for a sportsbook.

[Bill Dozer]

I haven't received any information outside of what is in this thread but my guess is this can be resolved without the bank statement.

Betmaker probably wants to see how the Neteller account was funded. If it was a peer-to-peer transfer they would be able to see if the email addresses match any of the other poker accounts. If there aren't any recent new-money deposits and the player supplied an ID, there may not be any need for the checking history.

siopow,
Is there a reason why you do not want to supply the Neteller information? BetMaker already has the account details. Feel free to email me at assistance@sportsbookreview.com.

If this comes down to an audit on your poker play, you may want to contact PokerRoomReview.com.

[siopow]

ISETCAP. What considerable evidence of wrong doing? Is there something that you know that we don't know. Or you are also accusing me of wrong doing even though you don't even know what they are accusing me off.

[isetcap]

Originally Posted by siopow

TACOMAZ, ISETCAP. you mean to say you have no problem sending your bank statement and neteller statement to a scam book. Even though they don't know what they are accusing of.
That's obvious that you guys work for a sportsbook.

Yes, I work for a sportsbook and I'm accusing you of grave wrongdoing. Now send me all your banking information and your social security number and your mother's maiden name and an original birth certificate and all of your credit cards and a detailed spreadsheet that lists all your usernames and passwords.

[tacomax]

Originally Posted by siopow

TACOMAZ, ISETCAP. you mean to say you have no problem sending your bank statement and neteller statement to a scam book. Even though they don't know what they are accusing of.

I wouldn't play at a scam book. And Betmaker isn't a scam book.

Originally Posted by siopow

That's obvious that you guys work for a sportsbook.

Cool - which one do I work for? And why do they never pay me my wages? I hope Bill can sort that one out.

[MrX]

Originally Posted by natrass

You didnt remember to ask about how you could get a trip for two to the NCAA's final four !!

Comedy gold, natrass!

[siopow]

Yes. There is a problem about sending them my statement bank and neteller statement. My neteller and my bank told me not to provide any statement or activty history to any party for security and fraud purpose. My bank saids once a third party have your activty information they can steal your money.
When you call your bank and they ask you for your last activity so you can access your account. It's like you are giving them full acces to your account. I wouldn't want any sportsbook to have full access to my bank account nor neteller account. Because I don't trust any book at all. I will provide them what is apporpriate. PHOTO ID and a neteller deposit confirmation Is apporpriate. Not statements.

[Winston Smith]

Why don't you contact Bill and have it resolved peacably?


Isetcap and Tacomax are just making observations based on the common traits you continue to exude throughout this thread. If they're wrong, great for you, but instead of restating your point a hundred times, why not send the info to Bill and let him contact the book and get it resolved?

[Lucas]

I did not send any bank statements to any bookie and if they want it I will probably not be able to do it. I funded my account at one bookie via Moneybookers and then withdrew to Neteller. So than must I show to the bookie all my transaktions form funding Moneybookers and rolling my cash through other bookies and withdrawals to Neteller or what?

[MetraDynamix]

I think that I somewhat agree with {siopow} in terms that it seems to simple for a company to accuse someone of fraud and then withold your money. I am very particular about my personal information. At the same time I do think that the reaction you had perhaps did not help your case very well. In terms of a photo ID, I do not see any problems with that. When signing up with these places they already have your Full Name, Date of Birth, etc... I would never send them my SIN for example. In terms of bank statement, I would definitely never send ANY company such thing. A Net Teller activity statement why not? I consider my bank statement very personal business; it is not anyone's business but my own on what goes in and out of my bank.

Net Teller Accounts would be a different story. I would recommend that you simply send them a Photo ID; and Net Teller Acitivity Statement.

You must set your boundaries with logic

That's my 2cent Canadian.

[natrass]

Even if Bill sorts this I would be very interested to know if he feels asking for such much personal info is appropriate.

When you have money in a bookies ... it is not their money and this bookie very clearly implied blackmail. This must always be wrong and (for me) that places a big black mark against them.

If they genuinely feel their may be wrongdoing they are quite right to investigate. I would be very intereste dto know why a bank statement was absolutely necessary.

[MetraDynamix]

I agree with you {natrass}. It seems that bookies will never ask for such things when taking your money. Then again it seems that a lot of problems are coming from Poker. I have read some posts regarding sports betting also. It seems like bookies on-line sometimes utilize Policies to attempt to capitalize on individual's money, or delay payments of such money. I still do not understand this factor to this day.

At this point and have not had any payments problem from bookies, I am new to the scene. I have not won big either

In Canada we have something called Pro-Line. You go to the corner store or lotto stands and you can play tickets. It's basically Parlays (Must pick 3 events correctly as a minimum). You would never be asked to provide ID, or anything that is. It is purely anonymous gambling. As I believe it should be for sports. If I send my Girlfriend, Mother, Mother-in-Law to get 100 tickets @ 20$ each; What is the difference really? The bottom line is that they presented odds, I placed a wager on them before the event started. The future presented me the result. I believe that it should be the exact same thing for Sports Betting On-Line the least.

[freebie]

Why would you want to send your bank statement and ID to a book?

Do you guys send them out to all books that ask for it?

[tacomax]

Sending a book an old bank statement wouldn't bother me. There's a lot more downside if a book knows my Neteller details (i.e. account number and secure ID - which I assume is accessable) should they wish to try and shaft me. There's a heck of a lot more in my Neteller account than my bank account.