[natrass]

Just from reading zulu's posts about his nive 3-4 week wait for a foreign currency cheque had me reflecting ...

Personally, I find the "US branded" books often appaling when it comes to paying out .... whether its stunts like zulu had, charging for you to get your own money out, the 'boundless generosity' of having a no withdrawal fee on, say, any Friday in a month with a B in it, the bonuses all being tied to WRs, etc etc.

It makes me appreciate the more European books which never charge for withdrawals, who offer bonuses without any attention-sapping t & cs (often as complicated as a matched bet or cashback), etc.

Of course the payout isnt the only factor but the sooner the US governement gets the history books down and reads how succesful the prohibition was the sooner they can make life a lot easier for all concerned. Until then, can anyone give me any reason why a European bettor would consider going with a "US branded" book? There must be reasons (presumably vig) as loads do but, for now at least, they remain safe from my predatory skills.

[JoshW]

I will take US bonus culture and maybe more importantly low juice over UK books any day. UK books just don't offer much of a bonus for 1k+ deposits. Yes with the bonuses come a number of restrictions, but I would rather work with those and have a lot better chance of coming out ahead then just getting paid fast or having "free" withdrawals all the time.

Also I think it depends on where you are. I rarely wait weeks for a check. Usually three days as most places will deliever to your door from central america via FedEx or UPS.

[Bill Dozer]

It's an apples & oranges type of comparison. If you wager seriously on US sports you have to use the shops near the Caribbean. The fact that some US-focused books list soccer as prop bets says it all.

[Mudcat]

Vig and bonuses pretty much sums it up for me. I've tried many UK books but I don't find a reason to stay.

Learning and factoring in things like payout/bonus terms are just part of the job and, to me, the US books still come out ahead in the big picture. Way ahead in fact.

It's on my back burner to do research on straight soccer betting - and maybe if I ever get around to it and start comparing those lines closely, I'll find more use for the UK books.

I have had a close look at a couple of arbing groups where UK books are a must. So I know that, reduced juice or not, the best line on a variety of things is often found at UK books.

But, given that I can't do absolutely everything all the time, I have settled into my current methods which are primarily centered on US books.

[ZuluWarrior]

First off, well said natrass!

To answer your overlying question, I took advantage of American bookies because they offered much better lines on a few selections (for me it was global novelty markets, and basketball), now I think of it this is probably where most 'arbitary' betting situations come from too.

Being resident in the UK, I offer my own experiances.

From what I can see, European bookmakers (Stan James, Sean Graham, William Hill, Bet365, Labrokes, Blue Square are the ones I use/have used)
Pros

• Often high grade customer service
• Often regulated by gambling countries that have a certain amount of legislation protecting the punter and bookmaker
• High quality sites
• Ofter service is offered from long standing bookmakers (like Stan James or William Hill) and so these books have a higher liability should they get it wrong.

Cons

• Fixed odds, from my own research you'll be lucky to find more than 5% difference in different books prices, they all seem to be well in touch with each other

And, US bookmakers (or US serving bookies should I say), (I have used SportingBetUSA, Bodog)
Pros

• Better covourage and lines on less global sports, like collage basketball
• better odds, they may set their book higher than most euro-bookies

Cons

• Often sites are shabby
• Ofter there are regulations, terms or conditions that favour the bookmaker explicitly (eg "We reserve the right to change any price, any time, without notification, even on pending bets")
• Like you said, their "bonus culture"
• Poor Customer service (please note I found Bodog the exception)
• Payout issues

I'd like to stress that these are all IMHO, from my experiences. And I'd assume the difference comes from the culture in which these different bookies emerged.

The european ones, especially the UK ones, where set up either by existing legal bookmakers from europe or by people who understand the legal betting culture within europe

Whereas inversly, as America has laws against gambling online (The Federal Wire Gambling Act, I think its called), so consiquentally, the people trying to set them up are people looking to circumvent or flout the US law, and as such set up in a country with enough 'liberty' for them to get away with it. As there already into something 'dodgy', what's to stop that 'dodgy' attitude re-sufacing in the way the bookies operate?

Hope you find this useful!

ZuluWarrior

[Santo]

I've been waiting 3 days for a Neteller Withdrawal from William Hill now, so not all hassles are confined to the carribean

[natrass]

First off, well said natrass!

To answer your overlying question, I took advantage of American bookies because they offered much better lines on a few selections (for me it was global novelty markets, and basketball), now I think of it this is probably where most 'arbitary' betting situations come from too.

Being resident in the UK, I offer my own experiances.

From what I can see, European bookmakers (Stan James, Sean Graham, William Hill, Bet365, Labrokes, Blue Square are the ones I use/have used)
Pros

• Often high grade customer service
• Often regulated by gambling countries that have a certain amount of legislation protecting the punter and bookmaker
• High quality sites
• Ofter service is offered from long standing bookmakers (like Stan James or William Hill) and so these books have a higher liability should they get it wrong.

Cons

• Fixed odds, from my own research you'll be lucky to find more than 5% difference in different books prices, they all seem to be well in touch with each other

And, US bookmakers (or US serving bookies should I say), (I have used SportingBetUSA, Bodog)
Pros

• Better covourage and lines on less global sports, like collage basketball
• better odds, they may set their book higher than most euro-bookies

Cons

• Often sites are shabby
• Ofter there are regulations, terms or conditions that favour the bookmaker explicitly (eg "We reserve the right to change any price, any time, without notification, even on pending bets")
• Like you said, their "bonus culture"
• Poor Customer service (please note I found Bodog the exception)
• Payout issues

I'd like to stress that these are all IMHO, from my experiences. And I'd assume the difference comes from the culture in which these different bookies emerged.

The european ones, especially the UK ones, where set up either by existing legal bookmakers from europe or by people who understand the legal betting culture within europe

Whereas inversly, as America has laws against gambling online (The Federal Wire Gambling Act, I think its called), so consiquentally, the people trying to set them up are people looking to circumvent or flout the US law, and as such set up in a country with enough 'liberty' for them to get away with it. As there already into something 'dodgy', what's to stop that 'dodgy' attitude re-sufacing in the way the bookies operate?

Hope you find this useful!

ZuluWarrior

Yes, that pretty much sums it up. They are like two completely different betting cultures in a way. The "US" ones can have you flying a bit closer to the wire than you would maybe like in return for higher EV bonuses and vig whereas the "UK" ones offer less generous vig and variety but do compensate with more consistent and customer-friendly operations.

santo, I have to say, over maybe hundreds of bets with WillHill I have never waited more than a few hours to be paid out. But, maybe, it was on an unusual line or something. Certainly not its modus openadi to keep folk waiting.

[Santo]

They just paid me at midnight British time..

Wasn't anything particuarly strange, a $1.4k bet on evens Syracuse ML vs Cincy Wednesday