[ritehook]

TV interviews, the whole nine yards.

Gonna get not just his 15 minutes of fame, but 15 weeks. Or 30, till first Tues in November.

Then it'll be President McCain, and massive amnesty, and war without end.

[jjgold]

Hilliary is going to get the nod because she has best chance to win Popular vote

[Tchocky]

I saw Rev. Wright on Bill Moyers. I don't think he's a hate monger but I can understand why Obama is trying to distance himself. I hope Rev. Wright won't be a factor but he's definitely not helping Obama.

[ritehook]

To fultill his imperial ambitions, a Prez M will either have to re-instate the draft ---

OR, much more likely,

Offer full US citizenship to any young person, prefereably male, of Third World countries, if they be willing to act as US cannon fodder for 4 years.

Not a new idea. Rome in its last years did the same. The barbarian soldiers who got their military training for Rome later overran the empire, and ultimately Rome itself.

[ritehook]

I saw Rev. Wright on Bill Moyers. I don't think he's a hate monger but I can understand why Obama is trying to distance himself. I hope Rev. Wright won't be a factor but he's definitely not helping Obama.

In fact, as he said on Moyers, in reference to his most notorious statement (about 9-11 being "chickens coming home to roost") he says he was quoting the Iraqi ambassador.

In any case, the statement doen't fundamentally differ from Ron Paul's truthful statement that "They're [terrorists] over here because we're over there."

But the dumbed down public acts only on emotion, visceral images.

[jjgold]

Clinton's got to the Rev, they will do whatever it takes to get her the nod including murder that is why I like the Clintons so much as they play to win.

[daggerkobe]

CNN did a poll and found that Hillary would beat Mccain by 10%. Did a same poll between Obama and Mccain and it was basically a tie.

[ritehook]

How accurate a cnn poll would be, especially now, is problematic.

I did hear, what I didn't know when I made the original post, that Obama just today denounced the preacher, especially his appearance before the press convention, calling it a "spectacle."

The candidate had to do it, to put a big distance between himself and the Rev. He may lose a few percent of the black vote by so doing, but that's better than losing half of the projected white vote he might get.

[JBC77]

Stick a fork in that liberal democrat. After 20 years of listening to the guy, only now does reverend a$$holes words offend him. Laughable.

[ktorp18]

His words weren't really hateful. I don't understand why people are calling this guy a bigot. Also he would go away if the media stopped talking about him. Seems like he is the only thing that has been on the news the past few days after his press conference.

[Sportsgirl]

Stick a fork in that liberal democrat. After 20 years of listening to the guy, only now does reverend a$$holes words offend him. Laughable.

My sentiments exactly. After admittedly being longtime, close friends with the reverend and a member of longstanding of his church, he now decides to denounce him? What? after all this time, you didn't know the right reverend's thinking? his stand on things? and now Obama is shocked to learn the truth of his close friend. Sorry, I've gotta call BS on that.
It takes only to read to No. 4 on the 10-point vision of the church they both belong to, to figure out that Obama knew exactly who and what his friend stood for:

http://www.tucc.org/about.htm

[purecarnagge]

nah that big name superdelagate that deffected caused some uproar. He used to be the head of the DNC I think. He switched from Clinton to Obama. Basically, citing campaign tactics.

[Dark Horse]

Intrade has Obama clearly as the favorite to be the next president. Intrade has a history of being extremely accurate in political predictions. Elections still far away though.

[Thor4140]

who gives a shit about some freaking pastor? Is he running for office? All this is is sheep mulch for idiots. Its to divide the weak-minded
Like Yogi Berra said:

It's like deja vu all over again.

In 2004, we have a war that's starting to head south, a scandal ridden administration under attack ie: Wilson, DeLay, Libby, etc, economy heading down, yadda yadda yadda. Then what becomes the central theme in the press..................

gay marriage, swift boats, morality and God

Fast forward 2008, economy in the dumper, occupation in Iraq continuing with over 4k dead, no jobs, no houses, no gas, no affordable prescriptions, no retirement, no pension plans, no affordable airline tickets, no health insurance, no environment, no mom and pop stores, no lawsuits, , and what the fuk does the press focus on................................

The pastor from hell.


The media does direct our attention to the topic du jour. But we allow them to do it. Why isn't Hagge a story? His condemnation of the Catholics (I think 1 billion strong worldwide) should have garnered more attention than it has. Shouldn't it. Any of you even know who Hagge is?

[ritehook]

Any of you even know who Hagge is?

You talkin' about McCain's de facto pastor?

The one whose support McCain wants, while distancing himself from the pastor's crazier statements? (Which is about 80% of his statements.)

That the one? Gee, sounds familiar.

[ritehook]

The pastor of Johnny Boots on the Ground (Worldwide and Forever) is the Right Reverend John Hagee, founder and maximum leader of Christians United For Israel.

Israelis look upon this porcine Billy Sunday-type with contempt, but the nationalists and rightists among them will use him like the sh-tpaper he is.

They know full well that his (heretical by Christian standards) theology states that until all the lands of Old Israel are owned by the Jews, JC will not return.

But, and here's the zinger, when JC does return he will require all Jews to convets to JCism, and those tht don't - which accoding the Hagee's theology will be most of them - will be cast into everlasting fire and brimstone.

Yes, my friends, only in perpetually adolescent America can a simpleton con-man like Hagee make presidential candidates sit up and take notice, and pay their respects.

When is Bootsie gonna say he doesn't want the support of this Right Reverend?

[ritehook]

The crude theology and antics of Hagee has even a lot of American Jews cringing, and ashamed that Israel cozies up to swine like that.

And, they also likely fear the backlash that even the world's most propangandized mob may wake up and smell the manure.

Because quite recently, a number of liberal US Jews, resentful that AIPAC always pretends to speak for them, have formed a counterweight to that potent lobby.

It deserves a separate thread, tho.

[BuddyBear]

The reality is that nobody cares about this Jerimiah Wright except the news media and conservatives who aren't going to vote for Obama anyway.

This whole story shows how stupid the American public is and what a farce these presidential campaigns have become. To honestly think that someone would change their vote b/c of a candidate's preacher beliefs is absurd. Just another example of how the news media deliberately avoids issues/policy proposals in favor of celebrity gossip stories. The whole system is a sham.

IMO Obama is still in all likelihood going to be the next president of the United States and I make him a very strong favorite to do so.

[ritehook]

The reality is that nobody cares about this Jerimiah Wright except the news media and conservatives who aren't going to vote for Obama anyway.

This whole story shows how stupid the American public is and what a farce these presidential campaigns have become. To honestly think that someone would change their vote b/c of a candidate's preacher beliefs is absurd. Just another example of how the news media deliberately avoids issues/policy proposals in favor of celebrity gossip stories. The whole system is a sham.

IMO Obama is still in all likelihood going to be the next president of the United States and I make him a very strong favorite to do so.

You overestimate the intelligence, even in the service of self-interest, of the American electorate. Because of our high technology and communications, we are the world's most effectively propagandized people.

Remember how the media played up the Kerry/Swift Boat Veterans thing? Taking off against a guy who did volunteer for Vietnam and saw combat. To benefit a clown who was in fact a Sharpie Conscientous Objector (join the National Guard - stay at homes at that time - and then not even go to camp).

The Founders had no idea of the mass media that was coming, and how it would be used, not to educate, but to spread a coating of lies over almost every issue.

I have found that the less educated in the US are often the least propagandized. Or it may be that the better educated are the better off, and prosperity creates more cowards than the business end of a shotgun.

[WileOut]

Buddy anybody with half a brain cares about Wright and his long time friendship with Obama. Wright hates white people. Its that simple. Wright was not just Obamas preacher. He was his close friend and ADVISOR. Why would any white person with any kind of pride for your own race vote for Obama the obvious racist? Sure obama says he now denounces Wright but we all know they share the same belief system. "Blue eyed devil killer".

Also you guys go back and read JJ's post #6 in this thread. Take it seriously he knows what he is talking about.

[Thor4140]

Buddy anybody with half a brain cares about Wright and his long time friendship with Obama. Wright hates white people. Its that simple. Wright was not just Obamas preacher. He was his close friend and ADVISOR. Why would any white person with any kind of pride for your own race vote for Obama the obvious racist? Sure obama says he now denounces Wright but we all know they share the same belief system. "Blue eyed devil killer".

Also you guys go back and read JJ's post #6 in this thread. Take it seriously he knows what he is talking about.

http://www.plasticbag.org/archives/2...le_be_so_dumb/

[daggerkobe]

According to CNN poll, Hillary would soundly beat McCain by 10pts while Obama would tie so I wouldn't mind if he bowed out.

This country is not ready for a black president, no matter how much Oprah wants it to be.

I don't know why any gambler would want McCain.... he wants to outlaw gambling on college sports. Another "do as we say and not as we do" hypocrite.

[BuddyBear]

Buddy anybody with half a brain cares about Wright and his long time friendship with Obama. Wright hates white people. Its that simple. Wright was not just Obamas preacher. He was his close friend and ADVISOR. Why would any white person with any kind of pride for your own race vote for Obama the obvious racist? Sure obama says he now denounces Wright but we all know they share the same belief system. "Blue eyed devil killer".

Also you guys go back and read JJ's post #6 in this thread. Take it seriously he knows what he is talking about.

What are you talking about? You sound like a racist yourself? White person with "pride"...you have to be kidding me.

JJ does not know what he is talking about in most everything...he is basically the forum clown and I certainly would not be turning to him for any sort of political insight. In any event, BC and HC called on the Rev Wright during their own marriage crisis to help guide them through it so HC has a very strong connection to Rev. Wright and it's not like they weren't aware of his views either. Moreover, the things that Wright have said are pretty much true.....I think that is the fact that is lost among all this nonsense. His preaching is done with a religious point of view and most everything he is saying is supported by government document. Didn't the 9/11 commission arrive at the conclusion that U.S. foreign policy in the Middle East was one of the main reasons for the attacks? Didn't they also discuss Palestinian suffering in the 9/11 commission? Why is everything that Rev. Wright said taken so out of context? What exactly is it that Rev. Wright is saying that is so offensive...or is it just stuff you prefer not to hear.

That's the problem with conservatives they are so unbelievabley close-minded it is astonishing and sad. Let me guess, critcizing the federal government is treasonous...blah blah blah. Standard conservative rhetoric.

Now go off and run to your clan meeting or local white pride rally

[BuddyBear]

According to CNN poll, Hillary would soundly beat McCain by 10pts while Obama would tie so I wouldn't mind if he bowed out.

This country is not ready for a black president, no matter how much Oprah wants it to be.

I don't know why any gambler would want McCain.... he wants to outlaw gambling on college sports. Another "do as we say and not as we do" hypocrite.

Again...these polls are inherently flawed. I've gone over the reason on several occassions. Don't waste your time listening to a poll.

[daggerkobe]

Again...these polls are inherently flawed. I've gone over the reason on several occassions. Don't waste your time listening to a poll.

It is what it is.

[BuddyBear]

You overestimate the intelligence, even in the service of self-interest, of the American electorate. Because of our high technology and communications, we are the world's most effectively propagandized people.

Remember how the media played up the Kerry/Swift Boat Veterans thing? Taking off against a guy who did volunteer for Vietnam and saw combat. To benefit a clown who was in fact a Sharpie Conscientous Objector (join the National Guard - stay at homes at that time - and then not even go to camp).

The Founders had no idea of the mass media that was coming, and how it would be used, not to educate, but to spread a coating of lies over almost every issue.

Unfortunately the news media these days are so unbelievably conservative and weak that the news has become 24 hours worth of propoaganda. I was stuck watching CNN the other day and it was absolute torture. I can't believe the stuff that masquerades for news...and I guess CNN is the best of bunch. I can only imagine how bad FOX news is.

It's not that the American people are stupid per se, they aren't, but look at the information they are consistently exposed to? 24 hours of celebirty gossip on the main news stations, campaign coverage that is sorely lacking emphasis on the issues/policy proposals in favor or character issues and "electability" chances, 24 hour poll reports, scandals, etc... The Rev. Wright issue is such a non-story and yet it has dominated the headlines the past month. My advice is to check out Democracy Now as a reliable news source. It's available on podcast and check your local listings to find it on television

I have found that the less educated in the US are often the least propagandized. Or it may be that the better educated are the better off, and prosperity creates more cowards than the business end of a shotgun.

Well, this is an empirical question so there is probalby an answer to this question. I guess, theoretically, less educated people are the least likely segment of the U.S. population to have high levels of political interest and therefore the chances of them coming into contact with political messages is the lowest so in that respect it's unlikely that they would be propagandized the most whereas the most politically engaged would come accross constant propoganda.

On the other hand, the better educated tend to be more liberal (i.e. education and liberalism are positively assocated with one another) but given the current state of the news media I am not so sure even the most educated can avoid the never ending propaganda on corporate media. But lower educated tend to already hold stronger conservative views and are more likely to accept conservative positions. I would say better educated would be able to guard against propaganda...but then again, we are sitting in Iraq now and for the next 50 years b/c of a massive propaganda campaign which fooled most of the nation (not the world though as we could treat that as our control condition I guess) and still fools enough to make you really wonder.

Would be an interesting question to consider though.....

[BuddyBear]

It is what it is.

If you want to believe what a poll tells you on April 30th about what is going to happen on Nov 5th then be my guest.

It's a lot like going over a college football preview magazine in August and trying to predict the winner b/c the magazine made a prediction. More times than not they are wrong.

In addition, political campaigns especially presidential campaigns, are ongoing and dynamic events and are routinely evolving and changing. You can't take a snapshot of public opinion 6 months before and generalize it to a future date when so much has yet to happen.


Hmmm...is America ready for a black president? This is a pretty cliche question and something that Obama detractors routinely raise. It's kind of a dumb criticism. Why wouldn't America be ready for a black president? I would prefer to have a hen in office right now than the current president. I can't believe anyone after almost 8 years of the worst presidency in the history of this country (a religious protestant white man I might add) would somehow express reservations about electing a black man/woman. Put it this way, there is no way that Obama could in any way be worse than GWB. GWB is an absolute disaster. The reality is that Obama has just about wrapped the Democratic nomination like it or not. He's going to be a big favorite against McCain. Most likely Barak Obama will be our next president.

[ritehook]

He's going to be a big favorite against McCain. Most likely Barak Obama will be our next president.

This is not by any means even close to a lock.

Dems shoulda went for Edwards, that would have made more sense.

I hope Obama can pull it off, but he's going to have a hard journey to November.

People in America have consistently voted and acted against their own best interests.

[BuddyBear]

He's going to be a big favorite against McCain. Most likely Barak Obama will be our next president.

This is not by any means even close to a lock.

Dems shoulda went for Edwards, that would have made more sense.

I hope Obama can pull it off, but he's going to have a hard journey to November.

People in America have consistently voted and acted against their own best interests.

Yeah, it's not a lock but most poltical science models will have Obama winning handly but having a black presidnetial candidate has never really happened so we'll see.

Edwards was good....would have liked to see him get the nomination personally.

There is going to be a massive propoganda campaign against Obama about his race and the suitability of a black man as presidnet of the U.S. Of course, you won't here conservatives say things like "black man" or anything like that...instead, you'll here more emphasis on issues like welfare, affirmative action, crime, etc...issues that are constantly associated with African-Americans and have negative conontations among conservatives. The RNC and propaganada political consultants for McCain are already at work I am sure....

[WileOut]

buddybear I'm not conservative and the part about Wright I don't like is when he called white people "devils". I'm white and I dont like that. Call me crazy. Also how does pride in my race make me a racist? The media and clowns like Sharpton and Jessie Jackson have you so brainwashed its pitiful. Damn right I'm proud of my race.

I also didn't like it when he said "GD America". I don't like anything that fukin idiot says. He has the IQ of a billygoat.

Also I wouldnt vote for McCain with a gun to my head. I aint voting for the Clintons either. I'm not supporting any of those 3 lunatics in any way.

[BuddyBear]

Well, okay, you aren't conservative, but still racist. If you have so called "pride" in your race then your elevating your race above others hence the preference of your race as superior to others. In addition, what exactly would make you "proud" of being white? black? brown? Did you choose to be white? If you were black would you be as proud? Anyway, race is a social construct, it doesn't really exist. If you are "proud" of your race then you are wasting your time immensely I am sorry to say.


Are you that irritated by a guy who criticized the U.S. federal government and says god damn America? Does that really offend you that much...geez.

If you were black, you might realize that blacks have a long history of distrust with the federal goverment. Perhaps he is overzealous and might have misstated some things in his sermons, but certainly his long record of charity and giving and community service should give him the benefit of the doubt IMO.

[WileOut]

I dont think of pride as meaning superior. I dont think any race is superior to another, they are all equal. If I was black I would also be proud of my race. Every race has done things to be proud of. Every person should be proud of their race. All races have contributed great things to society. Being proud of your race does not make you a racist.

As for the GD America quote. When Wright said that I thought of how many people have died in war for his right to make a living and be free. Saying GD America is spitting in the face of all those people who have voluntarily died for his own rights.

[daggerkobe]

If you want to believe what a poll tells you on April 30th about what is going to happen on Nov 5th then be my guest.

It's a lot like going over a college football preview magazine in August and trying to predict the winner b/c the magazine made a prediction. More times than not they are wrong.

In addition, political campaigns especially presidential campaigns, are ongoing and dynamic events and are routinely evolving and changing. You can't take a snapshot of public opinion 6 months before and generalize it to a future date when so much has yet to happen.


Hmmm...is America ready for a black president? This is a pretty cliche question and something that Obama detractors routinely raise. It's kind of a dumb criticism. Why wouldn't America be ready for a black president? I would prefer to have a hen in office right now than the current president. I can't believe anyone after almost 8 years of the worst presidency in the history of this country (a religious protestant white man I might add) would somehow express reservations about electing a black man/woman. Put it this way, there is no way that Obama could in any way be worse than GWB. GWB is an absolute disaster. The reality is that Obama has just about wrapped the Democratic nomination like it or not. He's going to be a big favorite against McCain. Most likely Barak Obama will be our next president.

Polls aren't an exact science, but they have been pretty darn reliable, which is why they still exist. A week prior to the Pennsylvania primary, polls showed that Hillary would defeat Obama handidly, and guess what, she did.

The Gallup Poll has also been pretty accurate in predicting presidential winners since the 1930s.

Why do I think America isn't ready for a black president? Because polls consistently show he and McCain are in virtual dead heat while Hillary would trounce him by double digits. You can discount polls all you want, but I'll take the the public opinion of thousands of voters over 1 anonymous know-it-all on a bulletin board who may or may not have his own agenda.

Would I vote Obama over McCain? Hell yeah, anyone is better than McCain. McCain is everything that I do not want in a President: a racist, opposes gambling and a war-mongerer. Basically, a Bush clone. So in my best interest, I want someone that has the best chance to defeat him come November and that's Hillary.

As for Edwards..... I'm glad he came in distant third. Why any Democrat would want him is beyond me. He was the weakest link in 2004 and was soundly humiliated by Cheney in the VP debates which I believe cost Kerry the presidency.

[THE HITMAN]

My sentiments exactly. After admittedly being longtime, close friends with the reverend and a member of longstanding of his church, he now decides to denounce him? What? after all this time, you didn't know the right reverend's thinking? his stand on things? and now Obama is shocked to learn the truth of his close friend. Sorry, I've gotta call BS on that.
It takes only to read to No. 4 on the 10-point vision of the church they both belong to, to figure out that Obama knew exactly who and what his friend stood for:

http://www.tucc.org/about.htm

Ditto to all of that

[BuddyBear]

Polls are accurate the few days before, not 6 months ahead of time. Remember polls showed that Kerry would beat GWB at his peak. Things change, they'll change again. McCain has little chance to win this election IMO.....