[DrunkenLullaby]

I love when Christians try to say that radical muslims are savage and/or insane. Not to say that they aren't, but c'mon, look in your mirrors people!

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080420/...ing_christians

Christians clash at Jesus' tomb on Orthodox Palm Sunday

By SARAH EL DEEB, Associated Press Writer Sun Apr 20, 3:49 PM ET

JERUSALEM - Dozens of Greek and Armenian priests and worshippers exchanged blows at one of Christianity's holiest shrines on Orthodox Palm Sunday, and used palm fronds to pummel police who tried to break up the brawl.

The fight came amid growing rivalry over religious rights at the Church of the Holy Sepulcher, built over the site in Jerusalem where tradition says Jesus was buried and resurrected.

It erupted when Armenian clergy kicked out a Greek priest from their midst, pushed him to the ground and kicked him, according to witnesses.

When police intervened, some worshippers hit them with the palm fronds they were holding for the religious holiday. The Eastern Orthodox churches, including the Armenians and Greek Orthodox, follow a different calendar from Western Christians and celebrate Easter next Sunday.

Two Armenian worshippers who attacked the Greek Orthodox clergy were briefly detained by Israeli police. Scores of Armenian supporters then protested outside the police station during the questioning of the two, beating drums and chanting.

The Holy Sepulcher is shared by several Christian denominations according to a centuries-old arrangement known as the "status quo."

Each denomination jealously guards its share of the basilica, and fights over rights at the church have intensified in recent years, particularly between the Armenians and Greeks.

Father Pakrad, an Armenian priest, said the presence of the Greek priest during the Armenian observances violated the status quo. "Our priests entered the tomb. They kicked the Greek monk out of the Edicule," he said, referring to the tomb area.

Pakrad accused the Greek Orthodox Christians of trying to step on the Armenians' rights. "We are the weak ones, persecuted by them for many centuries."

The Greek Orthodox Patriarch in the Holy Land, Theofilos III, told The Associated Press that the Armenians are pushing to change the rules, challenging what he said was the dominance of the Greek church in the Holy Land.

"This behavior is criminal and unacceptable by all means," he said. "They wanted to trespass on the status quo concerning the order that regulates the services between the various communities."

The Church of the Nativity in nearby Bethlehem — where Jesus is said to have been born — also falls under the status quo arrangement. Last year, pre-Christmas cleaning in that church turned ugly when robed Greek Orthodox and Armenian priests went at each other with brooms and stones.

[Panic]

Don't see a case for atheism here.

[ShamsWoof10]

Originally Posted by DrunkenLullaby

I love when Christians try to say that radical muslims are savage and/or insane. Not to say that they aren't, but c'mon, look in your mirrors people!.

You're so GOOOFY!!!

NO THEY ARE NOT and Christains don't touch little boys either... that's goofy too...

Unreal how gooofy some of you are...

Athesim is a reality here in the US even though most 'CLAIM" they are Christians... What a laugh....

[DrunkenLullaby]

OK, maybe I should have said "And the case against any ORGANIZED religion gets stronger every day".

I suppose believing in God individually and worshiping on your own and never trying to impose your belief system on others has never done a lot of harm.

[DrunkenLullaby]

Originally Posted by ShamsWoof10

You're so GOOOFY!!!

NO THEY ARE NOT and Christains don't touch little boys either... that's goofy too...

Unreal how gooofy some of you are...

Shamsy, I'm not trying to fight with you, but I honestly don't understand your post - other than you think I'm goofy...which I can deal with.

[2Pac]

Originally Posted by DrunkenLullaby

I love when Christians try to say that radical muslims are savage and/or insane. Not to say that they aren't, but c'mon, look in your mirrors people!

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080420/...ing_christians

Christians clash at Jesus' tomb on Orthodox Palm Sunday

By SARAH EL DEEB, Associated Press Writer Sun Apr 20, 3:49 PM ET

JERUSALEM - Dozens of Greek and Armenian priests and worshippers exchanged blows at one of Christianity's holiest shrines on Orthodox Palm Sunday, and used palm fronds to pummel police who tried to break up the brawl.

The fight came amid growing rivalry over religious rights at the Church of the Holy Sepulcher, built over the site in Jerusalem where tradition says Jesus was buried and resurrected.

It erupted when Armenian clergy kicked out a Greek priest from their midst, pushed him to the ground and kicked him, according to witnesses.

When police intervened, some worshippers hit them with the palm fronds they were holding for the religious holiday. The Eastern Orthodox churches, including the Armenians and Greek Orthodox, follow a different calendar from Western Christians and celebrate Easter next Sunday.

Two Armenian worshippers who attacked the Greek Orthodox clergy were briefly detained by Israeli police. Scores of Armenian supporters then protested outside the police station during the questioning of the two, beating drums and chanting.

The Holy Sepulcher is shared by several Christian denominations according to a centuries-old arrangement known as the "status quo."

Each denomination jealously guards its share of the basilica, and fights over rights at the church have intensified in recent years, particularly between the Armenians and Greeks.

Father Pakrad, an Armenian priest, said the presence of the Greek priest during the Armenian observances violated the status quo. "Our priests entered the tomb. They kicked the Greek monk out of the Edicule," he said, referring to the tomb area.

Pakrad accused the Greek Orthodox Christians of trying to step on the Armenians' rights. "We are the weak ones, persecuted by them for many centuries."

The Greek Orthodox Patriarch in the Holy Land, Theofilos III, told The Associated Press that the Armenians are pushing to change the rules, challenging what he said was the dominance of the Greek church in the Holy Land.

"This behavior is criminal and unacceptable by all means," he said. "They wanted to trespass on the status quo concerning the order that regulates the services between the various communities."

The Church of the Nativity in nearby Bethlehem — where Jesus is said to have been born — also falls under the status quo arrangement. Last year, pre-Christmas cleaning in that church turned ugly when robed Greek Orthodox and Armenian priests went at each other with brooms and stones.

The fact that radical followers who interpret the holy books literally would push you toward atheism is laughable.

[ShamsWoof10]

Originally Posted by DrunkenLullaby

I love when Christians try to say that radical muslims are savage and/or insane. Not to say that they aren't, but c'mon, look in your mirrors people!

I didn't make it clear enough...?????

Let me try again...

Originally Posted by DrunkenLullaby

I love when Christians try to say that radical muslims are savage and/or insane. Not to say that they aren't, but c'mon, look in your mirrors people!.

Do you get it now..?

[2Pac]

So just because a cop is guilty of excessive force, does that mean we shouldn't have police officers.

Don't let the actions of fundamentalists taint your judgment. These people are much more visible, unfortunately, but they do not speak for the masses of either religion.

[2Pac]

Originally Posted by ShamsWoof10

I didn't make it clear enough...?????

Let me try again...



Do you get it now..?

[DrunkenLullaby]

Originally Posted by ShamsWoof10

Do you get it now..?

Nope. It seems like you're saying that radical muslims are neither savage nor insane, an opinion which you are certainly entitled to. But then you follow it up with the statement about Christians touching boys which seems to indicate that you DO think organized religions are a mess. So that's where my confusion lies.

[DrunkenLullaby]

Originally Posted by 2Pac

So just because a cop is guilty of excessive force, does that mean we shouldn't have police officers.

Don't let the actions of fundamentalists taint your judgment. These people are much more visible, unfortunately, but they do not speak for the masses of either religion.

No, it just means that I won't blindly trust a cop until I get to know him.

Nor will I follow an organized religion that attempts to tell me what is right or wrong or how I should think. Again, as the first reply pointed out, I should have said "the case against organized religion" as opposed to "the case for atheism".

[BrentCrude]

Wow,de ja vu all over again.I listen to Coast to Coast when I sleep and Ian Punditt the weekend minister talk host talked alot about atheism last night.He's a cool guy and not a real bible belter and can relate well to just about any person from any sect of religion or non religion.

A devout former Christian old geezer called in saying he was now an atheist because his beloved wife just died.The guy was really biblically versed and now was on a crusade to debunk Christianity as a total myth.He even claimed there was no such a person as Jesus.

I can see why people turn against religion when so much goes wrong in their life and you see so much termoil and injustice in society.But why not have an insurance policy in the form of at least being an agnostic instead of an atheist where you are just uncertain if there is life after death.I wouldn't want to piss off the big guy upstairs just in case there is a big guy upstairs by bashing Christianity.

[ShamsWoof10]

Originally Posted by 2Pac

You think it's ok not to pay after volunteeringly playing so it's not like your opinion on ANYTHING counts.. ESPECIALLLLY religion...

Now go get a job and pay CWager...

[DrunkenLullaby]

Originally Posted by ShamsWoof10

You think it's ok not to pay after volunteeringly playing so it's not like your opinion on ANYTHING counts.. ESPECIALLLLY religion...

Now go get a job and pay CWager...

I hear ya Shamsy. Seemingly ironically, some of the most religious people I've met in my life were some of the least ethical people I've met. Never understood how they made peace with that inside their heads, never will.

[HedgeHog]

I definitely see the irony in the story. As for fanatics, they're in every religion.

[Panic]

Originally Posted by BrentCrude

Wow,de ja vu all over again.I listen to Coast to Coast when I sleep and Ian Punditt the weekend minister talk host talked alot about atheism last night.He's a cool guy and not a real bible belter and can relate well to just about any person from any sect of religion or non religion.

A devout former Christian old geezer called in saying he was now an atheist because his beloved wife just died.The guy was really biblically versed and now was on a crusade to debunk Christianity as a total myth.He even claimed there was no such a person as Jesus.

I can see why people turn against religion when so much goes wrong in their life and you see so much termoil and injustice in society.But why not have an insurance policy in the form of at least being an agnostic instead of an atheist where you are just uncertain if there is life after death.I wouldn't want to piss off the big guy upstairs just in case there is a big guy upstairs by bashing Christianity.

I like your post Brent. Everyone has an opinion. The one thing the "old geezer" should know is, there is NO doubt that Jesus existed, the doubt lies in the fact whether he was the son of God or not. The reason they say "Jesus OF NAZARETH" is because there were so many Jesus'(by name) in that time from different parts that proclaimed they were the holy one, they had to tell them apart by city(region)..hence, of Nazareth. Make no mistake, he existed, but was he the TRUE Messiah? That's the question.

[TexansFan]

Yeah, I can see how hitting somebody with a palm fronds or kicking them is exactly equal to cutting off someone's head or killing 3000 people in the WTC's.

[DrunkenLullaby]

Originally Posted by TexansFan

Yeah, I can see how hitting somebody with a palm fronds or kicking them is exactly equal to cutting off someone's head or killing 3000 people in the WTC's.

No one said they were equal.

But fisticuffs with another priest at the site of your savior's (a savior who was supposedly fond of forgiveness and turning the other cheek) grave on the anniversary of his death is the mark of a religious wack job. No one was arguing which wack jobs were wackier - just that ALL organized religions seem to have them.

[moneyline]

Humans are flawed. The Lord Jesus Christ and his Father, God, are not.

Humans take the word of the Bible and do damage with it every day. The message of the Bible is truly pure and, if followed, is the epitome of love and forgiveness.

(however, many of you get very confused when confronted with the saying "love the sinner, HATE THE SIN.")

[Sportsgirl]

Originally Posted by moneyline

Humans are flawed. The Lord Jesus Christ and his Father, God, are not.

Humans take the word of the Bible and do damage with it every day. The message of the Bible is truly pure and, if followed, is the epitome of love and forgiveness.

***thud****
I agree with Moneyline - completely.

[BrentCrude]

Anyone hear Alex Jones today when he exposed the vast majority of the leading religious authorities as new world order politicians.I grew up Catholic and when I listen to the pope scolding the people of the USA for everything including not wanting illegals here it makes me cringe.Then you have Pat Robertson on tv with racist Al Sharpton trying to raise global environmental taxes.What about Billy Graham being a big supporter of the leftist Clintons.How about Rudy Guillianni being pro abortion and getting 3 divorces and showing up at the pope's mass for communion.

Then you look at all your neighborhood preachers preaching about gun control or the black churches being in bed with the leftist democrats.

You have Oprah wanting to form a new age spirituality church so she can run a tax free non profit leftist political organization.

How can you trust a church or minister these days????Have your own faith and practice it alone and be a good person.

[DrunkenLullaby]

Originally Posted by BrentCrude

Have your own faith and practice it alone and be a good person.

Amen!

[moneyline]

Part of Christianity is sharing the word with others. Both with your words and your deeds. People here think it is admirable to share winning picks with others so they can make money. How much more valuable to share the word of the Lord with others so that they can be given the gift of eternal salvation?

(I don't think you can compare the value of the two, do you?)

[DrunkenLullaby]

Sharing the word is fine.

Jamming it down someone's throat and trying to convince them they're a heathen for believing anything other than the word is nor what MY savior had in mind.

[moneyline]

Nope, I just advocate sharing the word. Not jamming it down somebody's throat. Whether or not they choose to believe is ultimately their decision and, like with every decision people make in this world, it has consequences.

But nobody can force another to believe in something. Like the adage goes about the horse and that darned water, you know?

[Arnold]

Originally Posted by 2Pac

So just because a cop is guilty of excessive force, does that mean we shouldn't have police officers.

Don't let the actions of fundamentalists taint your judgment. These people are much more visible, unfortunately, but they do not speak for the masses of either religion.

The problem that I see is not the fighting of these particular groups of Christians, but the overall situation with Christianity: lack of spirituality or anything supernatural. I see this news article as just one of many examples of the big Christian BS.

Originally Posted by moneyline

Part of Christianity is sharing the word with others. Both with your words and your deeds. People here think it is admirable to share winning picks with others so they can make money. How much more valuable to share the word of the Lord with others so that they can be given the gift of eternal salvation?

(I don't think you can compare the value of the two, do you?)

You need to distinguish between hard, physical cash, and words of faith about some eternal life after death, that no one witnessed or received. I'd take winning picks any day over brainwashing "word of the Lord". In fact, if you're really stubborn, I might even pay you to stop annoying me with the "word of the Lord".

[moneyline]

It's sad you have a lack of faith in anything you can't see/touch/feel. Is your real name Thomas?

[Arnold]

Originally Posted by moneyline

It's sad you have a lack of faith in anything you can't see/touch/feel.

It's sad that people blindly believe and waste their whole life on something like this.

Is your real name Thomas?

No. Why?

[moneyline]

Your life is but a blink of an eye. That you believe this is all there is without having the faith to believe in more is quite depressing. But God will not give up on you until your dying breath -- always time for you to open your heart to Him.

Doubting Thomas of Biblical fame. Your attitude mimics his.

[moneyline]

Oh, and one more thing. I believe in the Lord, His father God and the word of the Bible. But wasting my life on this?

I've traveled to over 70 countries, worked with people at Mother Theresa's Home for the Dying, taught Riy Hibbert Jr. and many, many others as an elementary school teacher and am now an attorney for the indigent. If that is wasting one's life in its first 38 years, then I guess I am guilty as charged

[compaqDikk]

what does this thread have to do with creditwagering.com? wtf

[Arnold]

Originally Posted by moneyline

Your life is but a blink of an eye. That you believe this is all there is without having the faith to believe in more is quite depressing.

Believing in something just for the sake of protecting yourself from fear of death is not my cup of tea. I don't like to live in an imaginary world.

But God will not give up on you until your dying breath -- always time for you to open your heart to Him.

See, this is totally imaginary - God not giving up.

Doubting Thomas of Biblical fame. Your attitude mimics his.

Thomas was actually better than other apostles, because he turned out to be wiser and critical. If you accept something without knowing what you're accepting, then you're risking accepting the devil who comes in the image of Jesus. Thomas is just an unfortunate character who became preachers' ass.

Originally Posted by moneyline

Oh, and one more thing. I believe in the Lord, His father God and the word of the Bible. But wasting my life on this?

I've traveled to over 70 countries, worked with people at Mother Theresa's Home for the Dying, taught Riy Hibbert Jr. and many, many others as an elementary school teacher and am now an attorney for the indigent. If that is wasting one's life in its first 38 years, then I guess I am guilty as charged

If you do something good for others, then that's not a waste. It's not what I'm talking about at all. But going to church, living in an imaginary world, and especially praying, that's a waste.

[moneyline]

Funny how people like yourself turn to prayer when you are extremely sick or in need. I guess you believe the world came from nothing because either you believe something was ALWAYS there or that it came from something else.

In other words, you have faith. Faith that something always existed, like matter (which you don't understand), or faith that something was create from something else.

You just reserve your faith for worldly things. A bit misguided, but certainly your choice -- consequences not optional, though ...

[Arnold]

Originally Posted by moneyline

Funny how people like yourself turn to prayer when you are extremely sick or in need.

You're thinking of someone else, because I never turn to prayer. Heck, I can pray to Santa Claus and get equal results.

I guess you believe the world came from nothing because either you believe something was ALWAYS there or that it came from something else.

I don't believe anything. I just don't know where the world came from. Is it that hard to admit? I may have some ideas that seem logical to me, but I won't say that this is definitely how it happened.

In other words, you have faith. Faith that something always existed, like matter (which you don't understand), or faith that something was create from something else.

You just reserve your faith for worldly things. A bit misguided, but certainly your choice -- consequences not optional, though ...

You won't get anywhere if you will try to compare me to Christians. I'm far away from what these guys are doing.

[moneyline]

"I don't believe anything."

That about sums it up. There is a right answer, but since you choose not to choose any answer, you have no chance of being right. It'd be like taking a multiple choice test and choosing not to fill in any of the blanks. Good luck with that strategy. Seems a bit hopeless, but what do I know? I believe this world was created by someone much greater than me. All one has to do is look at the Himalayan mountains to see that ...