[MadCapper]

If this guys was on a team that would score more than 3 runs a game he could win 25 games.

His stuff is nasty!

[austintx05]

you must hang out with ryan

[Richkas]

Originally Posted by MadCapper

If this guys was on a team that would score more than 3 runs a game he could win 25 games.

His stuff is nasty!

I watched my Cards today. He throws hard. But would be a better closer. His fastball dont move enough. Plus the kids tiny. Another Oswalt. But as a closer I think he would be awesome.

[rjt721]

Most potential? Maybe.

Best pitcher? No chance. Let's not get carried away - as talented as Lincecum is, they guy hasn't even surpassed 200 innings in his career. This is like calling Howie Kendrick the best hitter in baseball.

BTW, Lincecum might not be the best starter on his own team.

[donjuan]

I watched my Cards today. He throws hard. But would be a better closer. His fastball dont move enough. Plus the kids tiny. Another Oswalt. But as a closer I think he would be awesome.

This logic is absurd. Take your best pitcher, one of the best young prospects in the game, and put him in a position where he will pitch far less innings? You're kidding, I hope.

[austintx05]

Originally Posted by MadCapper

If this guys was on a team that would score more than 3 runs a game he could win 25 games.

His stuff is nasty!

if he was the best pitcher in baseball then he should be able to hold the opposition to 2 runs or less.

[donjuan]

I should also mention that the "position" of closer is so incredibly stupid. Rather than using your best relief pitcher in the situation that helps your team the most, managers stick the closer in only when it is a save situation. So, so, so dumb.

[austintx05]

the entire board of board of SBR should listen to rj and myself.

[NEP Dynasty]

Originally Posted by donjuan

This logic is absurd. Take your best pitcher, one of the best young prospects in the game, and put him in a position where he will pitch far less innings? You're kidding, I hope.

Do you think Joba should be moved into the starting rotation?

[donjuan]

Best pitcher? No chance. Let's not get carried away - as talented as Lincecum is, they guy hasn't even surpassed 200 innings in his career.

So you're ready to say no chance after already saying he hasn't pitched 200 innings, implying that the sample size is too small. Brilliant.

[donjuan]

Do you think Joba should be moved into the starting rotation?

Not necessarily. I'm saying he should be used in situations that give the Yankees the best chance to win, not in situations that pad his number of saves.

[LT Profits]

Originally Posted by donjuan

Not necessarily. I'm saying he should be used in situations that give the Yankees the best chance to win, not in situations that pad his number of saves.

Well, in Joba's case it would be Holds, although your point remains the same. Still, the move of turning great pitching prospects into closers is not unprecedented (Papelbon comes to mind).

[donjuan]

Well, in Joba's case it would be Holds, although your point remains the same. Still, the move of turning great pitching prospects into closers is not unprecedented (Papelbon comes to mind).

Indeed. Actually the Yankees still see Joba as a starter in the future. Anyway, Rivera is still probably the best reliever on the Yankees which makes it bizarre that anyone would bring up Joba when discussing closers.

[rjt721]

Originally Posted by donjuan

So you're ready to say no chance after already saying he hasn't pitched 200 innings, implying that the sample size is too small. Brilliant.

Do you go from thread to thread looking for the slightest imperfection in every statement? Annoying.

Couldn't the "no chance" comment be a direct reflection of the limited sample size? Or would a simple "too early to tell" have been more to your liking?

[donjuan]

Do you go from thread to thread looking for the slightest imperfection in every statement? Annoying.

Couldn't the "no chance" comment be a direct reflection of the limited sample size? Or would a simple "too early to tell" have been more to your liking?

Considering there is a huge difference between "no chance" and "too early to tell", I would say "too early to tell" would be much more to my liking.

[moneyline]

His career ERA is just under 4 and he averages 4 1/2 walks per game.

(put a hold on the Cooperstown bust just yet, if you don't mind)

[donjuan]

Do we really have to go over why ERA isn't a good stat again?

[NEP Dynasty]

ERA is a good stat.

[moneyline]

I love it. Wins are not a good stat. ERA is not a good stat.

How about his WHIP? That sucks too.

[donjuan]

It's a better stat than wins, but it still sucks overall because it relies on

a) other pitchers in the pitching staff

and

b) luck

[donjuan]

I love it. Wins are not a good stat. ERA is not a good stat.

Try dERA.

[moneyline]

Try using some (un)common sense.

[Richkas]

Batting average against with runners on base is what I look at when gauging a pitcher.

[thegreatdiatchi]

Lince is a good pitcher but he's not in the top tier yet because as with most young pitchers he's not consistent enough. Give him a year though.

[donjuan]

Try using some (un)common sense.

Common sense would indicate that using stats that are better at evaluating pitchers would be better than using stats that aren't as good at evaluating pitchers.

[donjuan]

Batting average against with runners on base is what I look at when gauging a pitcher.

Now you're just baiting me.

[MadCapper]

Lincecum does hold teams to 2 or less.

[moneyline]

Yes, he does hold them to 2 x 2 = 4 runs a game ...

(oh, that's right -- we judge pitchers by how many runs they give up a game -- they still last 9 innings, right?)

[moneyline]

And his WHIP still sucks ...

[MadCapper]

I didnt think lincecum gave up 4 runs today. maybe i cant read a boxscore or watch a game correctly.

[babaoriley]

Originally Posted by donjuan

Now you're just baiting me.

Baiting donjuan is fun. Someone please get into WARP3, OPS+ arguments with him. Please.

The thing is, he wins his side of the argument (we should only be using the most sophisticated stats around) while completely ignoring the other person's side... In this particular instance, words and phrases are thrown around with reckless abandon and shouldn't necessarily be taken 100% literally. It would be like me ordering Papa John's pizza then saying "This is the BEST pizza I've ever eaten!". In reality, I may have just been trying to emphasize that my pizza was better than I expected and employed a little harmless hyperbole to help make my statement... Donjuan would probably start an argument about the number of taste buds that were actually stimulated vis a vis my previous encounters with pizza... Or maybe he would go off on a tangent about how the actual quantity of pepperonis is far less important than the actual % of the surface that was covered in pepperoni... Don is a fine "argue for argument's sake" type of guy, he just prefers to overlook some elements of common sense when he feels like it.

[moneyline]

Cappy, look at your post. It doesn't say he held the team to two runs or less today. Perhaps spend more time learning to write what you want to say and less time making comments that make you look like a fool and life would be just a bit better for ya.

(just a suggestion)

[donjuan]

The thing is, he wins his side of the argument (we should only be using the most sophisticated stats around) while completely ignoring the other person's side... In this particular instance, words and phrases are thrown around with reckless abandon and shouldn't necessarily be taken 100% literally. It would be like me ordering Papa John's pizza then saying "This is the BEST pizza I've ever eaten!". In reality, I may have just been trying to emphasize that my pizza was better than I expected and employed a little harmless hyperbole to help make my statement... Donjuan would probably start an argument about the number of taste buds that were actually stimulated vis a vis my previous encounters with pizza... Or maybe he would go off on a tangent about how the actual quantity of pepperonis is far less important than the actual % of the surface that was covered in pepperoni... Don is a fine "argue for argument's sake" type of guy, he just prefers to overlook some elements of common sense when he feels like it.

I don't use the most sophisticated stats for the sake of them being sophisticated. I simply use the stats that best evaluate a player's value when discussing how valuable a player is. Please take specific issue with something I've posted in this thread (other than saves and Joba Chamberlain) rather than with me.

[donjuan]

And his WHIP still sucks ...

That isn't a good thing, but dERA is far more important.

[Roach23]

Cole Hamels is better