[HedgeHog]

According to Bally's and Bellagio, the score is UCLA 53-49 for Saturday's BB game. Any offshore Book that went by the amended score a day later, basically stole your money (absent a stated rule to the contrary).

The Greek, ABC and others reversed the score (and profited in most cases) by the reversal--despite the clear violation of Vegas rules--rules they should go by in rare examples like this. If your teaser or 2nd Half UCLA bet was changed by this reversal, you have a legit complaint.

Hopefully, SBR will help in attempts to re-claim your money. If you're affected, submit a complaint.

[Red_Sux]

the only bet matters is the 2nd half spread. a&m win rather than a push?

the game spread was -7, so ucla lost no matter what.

or is that 2 pts effect the O/U as well? i didn't bet the O/U, so i didn't know.

[Red_Sux]

oh, you teased it, so that last 2pts matter to you big time. yeah, that sux. i donno if you can complain though.

[SBR_John]

Its a tough arguement to say a book should use the wrong score to grade all bets. The score was in fact not changed. It was 51-49 on the court by the officials. It was the media that reported it incorrectly. In reality, there was no change by the officials, it was always 51-49. At least thats how I understood it.

Vegas books trust the media to get the score correct and use a pay line service to double confirm. Of course many of the line services are simply watching it in either person or on TV.

I'd say it was the Vegas books that are screwing players. Any player who would have won at 51-49, the officaial score was given a loss. That's not right.

[MrX]

This really is a strange one. It's a good thing the score correction didn't affect the game spread or this would be a huge mess.

I agree with SBR_John. I'd rather see the correct score used even at the expense of some bettors having what they believed to be a win taken away.

Hopefully, books will make the effort to update their T&Cs to address the amount of time a score correction can occur within.

[HedgeHog]

This really is a strange one. It's a good thing the score correction didn't affect the game spread or this would be a huge mess.

I agree with SBR_John. I'd rather see the correct score used even at the expense of some bettors having what they believed to be a win taken away.

Hopefully, books will make the effort to update their T&Cs to address the amount of time a score correction can occur within.

Exactly. What's to stop Books from going a week back or longer to correct or amend a score?

Additionally, doesn't the "Official" Scorer play some role in reporting the score.

Finally, someone needs to explain to me why the "Vegas Rules Apply" clause isn't in effect here. Vegas is going by the original score of 53-49. And what rules are they going by? Offshore should follow their example here.

[purecarnagge]

I always thought once a wager was graded that was it...

They couldn't go back for a redo...

[INVEGA MAN]

I am glad i had Texas A&M + 7.5

[michael777]

my ucla -7 second half at wsex is graded as a push

[HedgeHog]

my ucla -7 second half at WSEX is graded as a push

You are very lucky. The amended score now makes it UCLA 25-20 for the 2nd Half (revised from 27-20 originally). If you made this bet at The Greek, ABC, or most any other Offshore Book , your push would have been re-graded as a loss.

So this begs the question...Why are Books left to decide which score is accepted? The Books obviously have a vested interest in this bizarre matter, thus the reason why Vegas Rules need to apply. WSEX did the right thing here.

[Justin7]

What did NCAA Sports' website say immediately after the game? Does anyone have a capture or link to this?

[HedgeHog]

What did NCAA Sports' website say immediately after the game? Does anyone have a capture or link to this?

I'm not sure what that site said originally, but I can re-produce an article that's there now. I do know that for about 20 hours, the score was accepted as 53-49 everywhere I checked. Correcting a score this late isn't acceptable to Vegas (considered an amended score), so they are sticking with it. Offshore books need to follow their lead.

From NCAA.com:

A day later, officials say score of UCLA victory over Texas A&M in NCAA tournament was 51-49
INDIANAPOLIS (AP) Texas A&M pulled within two of UCLA on Sunday. Too bad the game ended Saturday night.
March 23, 2008
Printer friendlyEmail this storyIncrease font sizeDecrease font sizePrevious ArticlesRSS

INDIANAPOLIS (AP) Texas A&M pulled within two of UCLA on Sunday. Too bad the game ended Saturday night.

The NCAA clarified the score of the top-seeded Bruins' second-round victory over the Aggies, saying the officials waved off Russell Westbrook's dunk as time expired and the final was 51-49 instead of 53-49.

UCLA's Josh Shipp blocked Donald Sloan's drive in the final seconds and Westbrook rushed upcourt for an emphatic dunk as the Bruins celebrated.

It turns out Westbrook didn't make it to the basket in time, and officials disallowed the hoop.

``Amidst the activity courtside, there was a misinterpretation of the signal,'' Hank Nichols, national coordinator of men's basketball officiating, said in a release Sunday. ``But the ruling on the court was that the basket should not have counted, making the final score 51-49, not 53-49.''

The Bruins (33-3) will face Western Kentucky in the West Regional semifinals Thursday in Phoenix.

[michael777]

03/22/2008 22:30:37 Wagered $1250.00 to win $1000.00 on UCLA -7.0 Pushed Straight Wager
CB2 37 3/22 (2ND HALF) TEXAS A&M VS UCLA

[Justin7]

Rule 18 at ABC Islands:


Concerning suspended games, continued games and overturned decisions, ABC Islands Casino & Sportsbook follows the generally accepted Las Vegas gaming rules.

If ABC changed the grading, they are in violation of their own rules.

[Justin7]

I just spoke with ABC Islands. We're trying to figure out what source they used for the initial grading.

If NCAA Sports reported it at 51-49 initially, that is the official score. It doesn't matter what was shown on TV, Don Best, or even Bally's Casino

[HedgeHog]

They mentioned Don Best to me. But they also lied about calling Harrrah's of LV to confirm how Vegas was treating it. I called numerous LV Books, and none are adjusting the score. My winning ticket turned loser (ties win on teasers at ABC) is shown below:

Mar 22, 2008 10:25 AM (10:30:01 AM) Writer:INETUSER Confirmation #:080322102552-2 LOST 2 Teams TEASER B 1 65/50 $-65
538. UCLA PS -4 -110 ** Col Bsktbll ** (49-51)
724. LOUISVILLE PS -1 -110 ** Col Bsktbll ** (48-78)

[HedgeHog]

Here's an email response from WSEX explaining how they graded all tickets, including that of Michael777. They are going by vegas rules:


RE: UCLA score: 53-49 or 51-49?
From: WSE Support (support@wsex.com)
Sent:Thu 3/27/08 3:46 PM
To: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx




Dear Sir,



Thank you for contacting us. The score that was used for the UCLA/ Texas A&M game was 53-49, which was the official score at the end of the game. We do not recognize overturned decisions as stated in our rules and regulations on the website "For betting purposes, the winner of an event or game will be determined on the date of the event or game's conclusion according to house wagering rules and regulations. World Sports Exchange does not recognize suspended games, protests, or overturned decisions for wagering purposes".


Regards,

Mil

Wagering Department



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2008 10:06 AM
To: wagering@wsex.com
Subject: UCLA score: 53-49 or 51-49?



Dear WSEX Wagering Dept:

Which score are you using for Saturday's UCLA/ Texas A&M game? Is it 53-49 as reported Saturday night, or the corrected score of 51-49 on Sunday? Could you briefly explain your reasoning for the score you're using for official grading purposes.

Thank You,

xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

[Dark Horse]

Is it possible that this thread be moved to the 'state of the industry'?

It's still a current issue, but it gets drowned out by all the interesting personal stuff discussed in 'player's talk'.

[hoopster42]

un freaking real

[Mason]

Seems like a lose/lose for the books. If they change the scoring they piss of a lot of customers, if they don;t they piss off a lot of customers.

I'm not certain how you can state as fact that books profited by changing the score?

In the end going with the actual score is the most logical decision IMO.

[yanksrule80]

I dont like how the Greek went out and made its own rule to suit its best interst in this matter just messed up

[HedgeHog]

2nd half Betting was predominantly on UCLA. Books profited by going with the amended score the next day. In most cases, this went against their stated rules.

[betbetter]

Disagree.
This situation did'nt apply. The basket never counted. It was waived off on the spot. The score was reported wrong.
Vegas rule does not apply. Believe me there was not enough money anywhere on that half that a decision was made pertaining to liabilities. In fact I'd go so far to say as the Greek graded this one the way they did and took a small hit, to satisfy clients. 2nd half score was 25-20 at the buzzer that's indisputable. There'd be a HUGE outcry if it was any different.

[Dark Horse]

Vegas rule does not apply.

Who decides that?

Believe me there was not enough money anywhere on that half that a decision was made pertaining to liabilities. In fact I'd go so far to say as the Greek graded this one the way they did and took a small hit, to satisfy clients.

How would you know? Not that it matters. The amount of money is irrelevant. It is the potential amount that matters, coupled with the willingness to create one's own rule.

2nd half score was 25-20 at the buzzer that's indisputable. There'd be a HUGE outcry if it was any different.

There is an outcry, and it is gaining momentum.

[HedgeHog]

How can anyone say Vegas rules don't apply? Vegas Books paid out on the initial score, not the corrected one...and what rules do they use? WSEX followed the Vegas ruling as well.

There is no dispute that the last basket was late, but the correction was way too late. Vegas won't recognize a next day change and neither should the Offshore Books.

[Dark Horse]

I think what we're seeing is that the Greek places itself above Vegas rules.

So they should change their rules to something like:
"For anything not mentioned here Vegas rules apply. Unless we know it better than Vegas.."

Do we want a book that thinks so highly of itself that it places itself above Vegas rules? Or is that just a little too arrogant?

[betbetter]

Who decides that?


I don't work at the Greek but their Line Management made a judgement call on a unique situation that has'nt come up before that I've seen in the last 6 years.




How would you know? Not that it matters. The amount of money is irrelevant. It is the potential amount that matters, coupled with the willingness to create one's own rule.



Well you did say the amount was relevant, and quoted figures that were ludicrous. You are right, it does'nt matter how I know. I know that I know.



There is an outcry, and it is gaining momentum.

If there is, then theGreek and anybody else who graded it as 25-20 will do what it takes to satisfy valued clients.

[betbetter]

bah my html sukks here sorry! u get my drift though.

[Santo]

I frankly can understand both perspectives, and wouldn't criticise a book for grading it either way in this case. Given that it has now happened once, I would advise them to add a specific rule that addresses score corrections (vs protests and other such changes)

[betbetter]

I frankly can understand both perspectives, and wouldn't criticise a book for grading it either way in this case. Given that it has now happened once, I would advise them to add a specific rule that addresses score corrections (vs protests and other such changes)

Agreed.

[Mason]

2nd half Betting was predominantly on UCLA. Books profited by going with the amended score the next day. In most cases, this went against their stated rules.

Which books and how big were their decisions?

I find it hard to believe the Greek switched this score to squeeze out a profit.

How do you suggest they explain to their customers who actually had winners that they lose?

[Reload]

I am surprised not one book has even offered to honor both final scores somehow. This type of situation would happen so rarely, and the marketing a book would get for doing it would easily win them back money paid out from it. Most money won on a Saturday night during March Madness would just get lost back the next day anyway. Let's see a book out there do the right thing and honor both scores.

[yanksrule80]

Correct me if I am wrong but, I rember reading on one of the websites scores are official as of nba.com espn.com ect. Media outlets that listed as being the scores they go by. So if the score they went by is wrong shouldnt the casino due as it states in its terms and go by that wrong score of 53-49?

[HedgeHog]

Which books and how big were their decisions?

I find it hard to believe the Greek switched this score to squeeze out a profit.

How do you suggest they explain to their customers who actually had winners that they lose?

According to Chris at ABC, this reversal created a 10k profit (probably more than double that in swing as they would have lost at least that much had the original score held).

Other Books like the Greek, I don't know the exact amount. But given that UCLA was trailing at half, a comeback was expected. I believe the half line opened at 6.5 went quickly to 7 and eventually 7.5 in some cases. This indicates much UCLA action for the 2nd Half. No doubt in my mind that any Book would want the amended 2nd half score of 25-20 (instead of 27-20).