[willyback]

[buztah]

I think most degenerates here would kill to break even. As far as professionals go, let's hear from JJ, LT and MJF.

[willyback]

[20Four7]

I know of several on this forum that make between 60K and 100K a year. I'll leave it to them to make themselves known if they wish. That is a completely realistic income to hit.

[Shark79]

I know of several on this forum that make between 60K and 100K a year. I'll leave it to them to make themselves known if they wish. That is a completely realistic income to hit.

Wow .. I would've never thought that would be possible ... that is amazing!

[Deuce]

JJGold makes 6 figures.

[donjuan]

Wow .. I would've never thought that would be possible ... that is amazing!

How is that amazing? You can make almost that much a year from just arbing and bonus whoring.

[Shark79]

How is that amazing? You can make almost that much a year from just arbing and bonus whoring.

Amazing to me it is (I dont wager big amounts) ... I would've never thought it possible for someone to have that type of earnings in a year just by gambling on sports.

Unfortunately I am not into arbing or bonus whoring ... therefore I could careless bout it.

[donjuan]

Amazing to me it is (I dont wager big amounts) ... I would've never thought it possible for someone to have that type of earnings in a year just by gambling on sports.

Unfortunately I am not into arbing or bonus whoring ... therefore I could careless bout it.

Great way to grow a smallish bankroll.

[Shark79]

I started small ... now my account is pretty decent (at least for me) ... I have Cashed Out ... but leave enuff to keep increasing the balance

[durito]

Amazing to me it is (I dont wager big amounts) ... I would've never thought it possible for someone to have that type of earnings in a year just by gambling on sports.

$ is fairly meaningless. If your bankroll is $5,000,000 and you make $60,000 a year, you aren't doing so well.

[Salcas]

I would kill to break even

[TLD]

Kind of like asking “How much does the average successful businessman make?” Way too vague. Basically unanswerable.

As far as the 60K to 100K figure, I would say up until the hugely impactful events starting a little over a year ago (UIGEA, Neteller, Pinnacle dropping its U.S. customers, and on and on), for a person who had average to above average skill as a middler/scalper/bonus hunter, and worked it like a full time job—say, averaging forty hours or so per week all year—that range is probably about right, or even a little low.

If the person was handicapping successfully and could actually make money on the merit of his picks rather than just doing the arbing and bonuses and such, then add in more for that.

If the person also had a way of bearding and getting into books he had previously been booted from, getting sign-up bonuses multiple times, circumventing wager maximums, etc., then not only would he have made more, he would have made many times more. (Here I’m talking about either blatantly fraudulent things like creating entirely fictitious identities, or things that some people would regard as fraudulent and some wouldn’t, like teaming up with multiple real people who let you use their identities and more or less control their accounts for maybe a cut of the profits.) Full time work of this kind was certainly in the six figures, and probably way into the six figures.

Then the question is how much has the ugliness of the last year or so affected that? I’d really be guessing here, but if you put a gun to my head and made me give a figure, I’ll say for the identical skill level, identical effort, identical hours, etc., a person today would make 40% of the income levels I estimated above. Maybe it’s really 20%, maybe it’s really 70%; I just know a lot of stuff has happened to make it much harder to make money.

I think most people who were doing this successfully have either gotten out of it and moved on to other things, or they’ve had to get a lot more skilled at it, or they’re working much harder and longer, or they’ve had to loosen up about how far they’ll go with the “gray area” stuff of having multiple accounts and such, or they’re just settling for a significantly reduced income.

Caveat: The evidence I have only allows educated guesses. In no way are any of the above estimates to be taken as any more than that. Other more knowledgeable posters, if they choose, could give you more accurate estimates.

[Shark79]

$ is fairly meaningless. If your bankroll is $5,000,000 and you make $60,000 a year, you aren't doing so well.

I thought about that ... so .. how would one get to 100,000 a year? they had to start with a 10-20 0000 bankroll? For it to be considered a good year??

[Red_Sux]

$ is fairly meaningless. If your bankroll is $5,000,000 and you make $60,000 a year, you aren't doing so well.

so what is a good year durito? 15% profit? that beat the stock market.

[suzysuzy]

my average is around negative 115k

[katstale]

lolol But if you started with 5 Mil Suzy--you didn't do too bad.

[Shark79]

lolol But if you started with 5 Mil Suzy--you didn't do too bad.

or $10 ...

[suzysuzy]

the sad thing is that im not joking.

[bigboydan]

my average is around negative 115k

What would that figure be if you included poker in this equation Suzy?

[durito]

so what is a good year durito? 15% profit? that beat the stock market.

That depends on the person, their betting preferences, etc.

I know what I would like to make on my money, and what level of risk is acceptable to me, but that's not the same for everyone.

I thought about that ... so .. how would one get to 100,000 a year? they had to start with a 10-20 0000 bankroll? For it to be considered a good year??

Assuming one does actually have an edge, growing a small bankroll into a big one does not take that long.

A 1/2 kelly bettor, betting at -110 odds and with a win % of 55% and a $10,000 starting bankroll will have an expected bankroll of $156,967 and a median bankroll of $79,080 after 2,000 bets.

Use Ganch's kelly calculator http://www.sbrforum.com/Betting+Tool...alculator.aspx

if you want to change the #'s around.

[durito]

the sad thing is that im not joking.

why not drop the sportsbetting entirely and just do poker

[Red_Sux]

the sad thing is that im not joking.

i lost more than you in sportsbetting. not joking either.

[suzysuzy]

What would that figure be if you included poker in this equation Suzy?

eh not gonna give a number, ive been bragging about my poker winnings too much here lately.

[Shark79]

Assuming one does actually have an edge, growing a small bankroll into a big one does not take that long.

A 1/2 kelly bettor, betting at -110 odds and with a win % of 55% and a $10,000 starting bankroll will have an expected bankroll of $156,967 and a median bankroll of $79,080 after 2,000 bets.

Use Ganch;s kelly calculator http://www.sbrforum.com/Betting+Tool...alculator.aspx

if you want to change the #'s around.

I have yet to learn on how to use the Kelly Calculator ... but it seems all the real pros use this method ... will study it a bit and see how it goes ... thanks.

[suzysuzy]

why not drop the sportsbetting entirely and just do poker

cuz im due to win in sports of course! things will turn around for me eventually! im not a quitter!

[katstale]

Suzy, didn't you mention earlier you are an "action junkie"?

If that is true, I can offer little advice. If you just like to "be in the game" you could turn it around--course you have to stear clear of Lenny!!! lol

[Willie Bee]

My income last year from gambling was a negative-$780. Oh, Im sorry, you said sharp. Never mind, carry on.

[bigboydan]

eh not gonna give a number, ive been bragging about my poker winnings too much here lately.

Understood and can/will respect your answer based on what you have posted previously on this subject.

[69882000]

It's kinda like Ari Gold in "Entourage".

"Expectations beat em by a dollar and life is great.
Under by a dollar and put a gun to your head and make sure I'm standing behind you" I would like to break even and escape with good memories of those games I won or those games I coulda won but didn't.

As for money I have a day job that let's me surf the internet and chat with people all day until I go home and the boss has no problem with it because he is never here.

[Shark79]

It's kinda like Ari Gold in "Entourage".

"Expectations beat em by a dollar and life is great.
Under by a dollar and put a gun to your head and make sure I'm standing behind you" I would like to break even and escape with good memories of those games I won or those games I coulda won but didn't.

As for money I have a day job that let's me surf the internet and chat with people all day until I go home and the boss has no problem with it because he is never here.

Thats why he doesnt have a problem with it ...

[moonbeam]

what is a "sharp" player?

What does he/she do?

[Shark79]

what is a "sharp" player?

What does he/she do?

Intelligent wagers

[willyback]

i'm puzzled. I thought this forum was loaded with professional gamblers raping sportsbooks for six figures (or better) each year. I don't understand the mathematical probability aspects of handicapping very well (kelly, scalp, etc.). My strategy is basically to make winning picks based on extensively researched knowledge of the sport. I thought that's what everybody did?