[bigboydan]

Just thinking out loud here. Don't truckers usually sleep in there trucks? If so how does this book expect hotel records if thats the case.

So when he sends us hotel bills to prove he was traveling at the time he is shooting himself in the foot really.

[TruckerJoe]

Just thinking out loud here. Don't truckers usually sleep in there trucks? If so how does this book expect hotel records if thats the case.

Actually, i'm not a trucker! (truckerjoe was a poker name)

I sent them a hotel receipt of where I was staying the day before they closed my account, London, to prove that I was indeed there. I guess these '3 other account holders who always happen to be wherever he is…and use his unique IP as well' were also staying at my hotel??? !!!

Or, more likely, I was just having fun logging in and out of my 4 goldvictory accounts.

But seriously, this was the only night I have stayed in London since I deposited with them, so my IP address should be completely different to the other times I have logged in. I can't remember if I logged in with the free hotel broadband, or my mobile internet connection, but nevertheless that IP address should be totally different to the other IP addresses associated with my account.

I suppose it is possible that 3 other goldvictory users logged in from that area of London in this 24 hour period. But I guess if they did, then they would almost certainly have logged in from London at other times in June, which I didn't.

If anyone has any ideas about how I can prove myself innocent I would really be incredibly grateful

[bigboydan]

Sorry about the confusion sir.

If you sent in everything they asked for, then you shouldn't have any problems IMO. I mean that should be more than enough to prove your case I would think.

[TruckerJoe]

Josh, Dan.....Sorry to bother you guys with this, but any word from these fraudsters? They have sent me a laughable 125 Euros, my deposit minus a 25 Euro charge (I notice they didn't return my only other deposit with them of 200euros - which I lost to them).

Wheres's my other 500 Euros, Goldvictory?

You THIEVES

[bigboydan]

Josh, Dan.....Sorry to bother you guys with this, but any word from these fraudsters? They have sent me a laughable 125 Euros, my deposit minus a 25 Euro charge (I notice they didn't return my only other deposit with them of 200euros - which I lost to them).

Wheres's my other 500 Euros, Goldvictory?

You THIEVES

Hi Sir,

I don't know what the latest is on this one at this time, however let me contact Josh and see where we stand at this time.

[TruckerJoe]

Hi Sir,

I don't know what the latest is on this one at this time, however let me contact Josh and see where we stand at this time.

Thanks.

In the meantime, I'm going to contact the LGA in Malta. Although, judging by what is happening with betchance, they ain't much cop.

[TruckerJoe]

Any news from these maltese muppets, bigboydan?

[james240]

was just thinking the same myself as their running apromotion at the moment and wondered if it was worth taking the plunge with them?

[bigboydan]

Any news from these maltese muppets, bigboydan?

I haven't heard anything new involving your situation sir. Lets give it a little while longer because it does take GV time to respond to things.

[JoshW]

Trucker,

I am still emailing them, but without response. I am going to keep on them, but isn't looking very good.

JoshW

[TruckerJoe]

Trucker,

I am still emailing them, but without response. I am going to keep on them, but isn't looking very good.

JoshW

Thanks, I appreciate it. But man, this is crazy.

Goldvictory, show sportsbookreview some evidence.

If you want to be regarded as a legitimate book (and I believe you do, offering kickboxing odds that no other books offer) then robbing from innocent customers is not the way to go about it.

You've certainly made your point about not wanting bonus abusers, but you have made a mistake here, so please own up to it and return my winnings.

[TruckerJoe]

I used my mobile internet today in York, about 130km away from where I have been logging on from in Manchester, and the IP address was almost identical to Manchester. It appears to come from a very limited range of IP's that Three Mobile use.

***York
***currently Manchester. But every time I log out and then in again it just changes the last number.

Possible that all Three Mobile IP addresses in the North of England come from the same limited range: ***
I will investigate the South next time I'm down there.

Goldvictory, pay me my money please.

[TruckerJoe]

Found 2 emails to another goldvictory member on another forum, who also uses Three Mobile (apologies to the poster for carrying the emails across to here)

Dear Sir,

Kindly note that the Euro200 Bonus has been deducted from your account due to IP conflicts with other accounts. Another account using the same IP has already benefited for this offer therefore no other account using same IP address can benefit from this same offer.

Kindly note that your betting account is still open and is not restricted whatsoever, therefore you can still place your bets at your convenience. If you would like withdraw your deposit back, without placing any bets before, please note that a fee of Euro25 will be charged.

Dear Sir,

Thank you for your e-mail.

Kindly note that the Bonus Terms & Conditions say that only one Bonus per Ip is granted. Therefore your Bonus had to be deducted.

If you change your IP, we can give you again the Bonus, so please ask your internet provider to change your IP else we will not be able to grant it back to you.

Please advise us when this is done, so we can credit your Bonus back again.

This is obviously a pain in the butt for him.

But, at least they told him about the IP conflict before he placed a bet with them. They told me over a week after I bet with them.

And strangely, they are allowing him to continue using his account (not that he will want to, I'm sure). Do they at last realise that different people in different areas can have the same IP address?

They also said

If you change your IP, we can give you again the Bonus, so please ask your internet provider to change your IP else we will not be able to grant it back to you

This strikes me as being slightly absurd.

[GVstaff2]

Dear bigboydan,

We have not received any requests from your end. Kindly use xxxxxx for any queries you may have. Once I receive your email I will provide you with my direct contact so that from now onwards we will be in direct contact. If you can give me a resume of any pending cases you may have I would be more than happy to assist you.

Rgs
GV

[GVstaff2]

Dear TruckerJoe,

With regards to your case, a report had been already submitted to the LGA. All conflicts are also listed in our report, you can contact them and query if we had the right to act on your account the way we did. If LGA refuses our report we will refund you back all wining.

Furthermore with regards to the email pasted.. I can’t give you out any information as the information submitted in this forums looks to be not legitimate as I don’t see the owner of this email participating in this chat.

What I can note as strange in here is that you call us thieves!

So how in your case we closed your account and reimbursed you back your deposit and with the other account we requested him to change his IP and grant him back the bonus? I believe that if we are thieves we would have closed the unknown account remove his winning and send him back his deposit and charge him 25Euro.

But there again I cannot state if this is true or not or what was the case of the unknown client as he is not present in this chat.

To conclude we did assist you promptly and we clearly explain why we took actions on your account. If you wish further clarification you are free to contact us back, I will give you all logins including times and IP of your activity. You can past them here and I can indicate to the moderator how many times you conflicted with other user and the gap of time between one login and another. I think the moderator will have a better view of your activitiy.

With regards to the email pasted I would like to ask the moderator, if the owner or that email “if it exists” gave permission for this publication?

Rgs
GV

[GVstaff2]

Dear james240,

We do run massive promotion every week, right now and next Sunday there will be another massive promotion. If you wish to avail yourself from this offer read carful the T&C if you don’t breach any of them you don’t have anything to worry about.

If you wish you can register an account query for your account check and we will be more than happy to tell you if there is anything to worry about before depositing.

Our current promotion is of 100% bonus up to 200Euros.

Rgs
GV

[tomcowley]

With regards to the email pasted I would like to ask the moderator, if the owner or that email “if it exists” gave permission for this publication?

Obviously the guy posted the email himself on another forum, otherwise how would TruckerJoe have quoted it? And you don't need anybody's permission to copy parts of a post from another forum.

Instead of dodging the questions, posting stupid crap like "if it exists", and crying to mommy about somebody exposing your shady business practices by showing your double standards, why don't you answer this simple question?

Even assuming that TruckerJoe is a multi-account bonus abuser as you claim, and you want to nullify his entire betting with you.. TruckerJoe has deposited E350 total, he's a net winner of E250, for a total balance of E600. You closed his account and refunded him E125. Why do you think you're entitled to steal the other E200? If you want to refund his deposit, minus E25 processing fee, you should have sent back E325.

Explain this.

[smallon]

What a pain in the ass - I'll never, ever place a bet with them and will recommend none of my friends do either!

[bigboydan]

Obviously the guy posted the email himself on another forum, otherwise how would TruckerJoe have quoted it? And you don't need anybody's permission to copy parts of a post from another forum.

Instead of dodging the questions, posting stupid crap like "if it exists", and crying to mommy about somebody exposing your shady business practices by showing your double standards, why don't you answer this simple question?

Even assuming that TruckerJoe is a multi-account bonus abuser as you claim, and you want to nullify his entire betting with you.. TruckerJoe has deposited E350 total, he's a net winner of E250, for a total balance of E600. You closed his account and refunded him E125. Why do you think you're entitled to steal the other E200? If you want to refund his deposit, minus E25 processing fee, you should have sent back E325.

Explain this.

I couldn't have said it better myself in regards to the questions you have asked GV. However, I think we both know he won't answer them, due the fact that his employer is 100% in the wrong in that particular case.

[Santo]

I think they may be in the wrong, but unknowingly, from what the poster TJ put above.

If GV are not familiar with the IP addresses allocated to UK mobile phone operators (and really, there's no reason they should be until something like this came up), then it would look like all players using the 3 Mobile service are logged in from the same network (or subnet).

They probably should review this case and institute a rule that you are not allowed to access their service using mobile broadband.

[GVstaff2]

I couldn't have said it better myself in regards to the questions you have asked GV. However, I think we both know he won't answer them, due the fact that his employer is 100% in the wrong in that particular case.

Thanks for the info.. can you please quote me the link to this post so I can check the authentication of the email? Regards to the rest of your statement please clarify

Rgs
GV

[GVstaff2]

Dear [FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']tomcowley[/FONT]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif'] [/FONT]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']Unfortunately I wish to answer your question but I can not release any information related to any of our customers. [/FONT]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif'] [/FONT]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']Customers can request for their history and place it online also customers can also query why we released that amount and not the mentioned amount. As you can understand we cannot publish any customers persons details or history as this will be breach in customer privacy act. [/FONT]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif'] [/FONT]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']Rgs[/FONT]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']GV[/FONT]

[tomcowley]

Fine. If some hypothetical person deposited E200 at your book, lost it, then deposited E150 and ran it up to E600 total (total deposit E350, net winnings E250), and you found out he was a multi-accounting bonus abuser and you decided to terminate the account for that reason, would you refund E125 or E325? Are there any hypothetical circumstances (other than chargebacks) that you would consider justification for only returning E125?

[simmmy]

A book with this many offers is in trouble and paying debtors with new funds created by bonus offers.

Don't go there...!

[bigboydan]

Thanks for the info.. can you please quote me the link to this post so I can check the authentication of the email? Regards to the rest of your statement please clarify

Rgs
GV

If you referring to the post above it's post #83 sir.

I feel Santo said it best in his post.

[GVstaff2]

Hi Tomcowley,
It 100% correct what you stated, if you make two deposits one of 100euro and another one of 100Euro and your account is locked you will be reimbursed for both deposits.
But if an account deposits on November 2007 and plays legitimate without any breach his account will stay open without any limits as there is no breach.
Now if the same account after 7 months requests a new bonus with a new deposit and starts conflicting regularly with the same user on the same date at the same time. Then the action will be taken on the last bonus and the last deposit.
Only if the account has pending winning he will be refunded for both deposits but when the initial deposit was lost 6 months ago without any breach the first bonus is treated as over with no breach.
Take another example.
Say 6 months ago you made a deposit of 100 euros and you won 1000euros you made a withdrawal and left the account inactive with 0 balance for 6 month. After 6 months you make a new deposit of 100Euros and request a new bonus. Say that during the second bonus you breached the rules so what shall we do? Do I tell you that on your first bonus you withdraw 1000Euro and you now have to give back the company 800Euso cause you only deposited 200Euros?
Same is with the other case if you lose 100Euro 6 months ago we can’t count that 100euros with the second bonus.
Try to see it from our point of view and see the full history of each case then you will understand that we don’t close account for fun. The rules are clear and we have quite a number of account with 3Mobile which are active and bet regularly. But it is impossible that account1 and account2 has the same IP for more than 5 days in a row within a gap of few seconds between one logon and another.
It is normal that you have conflicting IP’s with some operators but every day with the same specific user at the same time that is not a coincidence. Moreover you are roaming on a different location and the other users is also logged in with your same IP with gaps of seconds. So or it is the same user from the same pc or else there is someone using your pc without knowing.
Try to imagine you conflict with my account every day and then you go abroad or in another city and you still conflict with my account can you give me a plausible reason for that?
I have account that conflict with other users but as the IP change the conflict users changes regularly and usually the dates and the time are completely different.
I m sorry for my long post but I hope that I answered your questions with the above example. If you require further clarification let me know I assume I answered all your questions indirectly. Sorry that I don’t give specific dates and info but appreciate the fact that we cannot release any personal information.
My last point is that during the 250Euro bonus we gave out over 500bonus, during the last bonus 200Euro we gave over 200 bonus all in 24hours, what I can assure you of is out of 700account we had approx 20 cases where the account where locked due to breach of bonuses all the rest are still playing, just this morning I approved 16,467Euros to a customers that made a deposit of 100Euro. I noted this so that you will understand that you can make money legitimate. While others try to abuse cause the bonus it to catch to resist and that is why these issues start showing up.
If you also wish me to contact you by phone you are welcome to email support and provide me with your details.
Rgs
GV

[GVstaff2]

Sorry forgot to include. To confirm our double standard I need to see the full email and the account holder and I will be more than happy to answer you why different actions were taken. I cannot commit if that is really a GV email or not as I don’t have enough info to check for you. For the time being I don’t have any connection to that email.

Thanks
GV

[bigboydan]

GVstaff2,

SBR poster TruckerJoe sent you everything you asked for along with receipts to prove his case as per your request mind you. I don't see what more he can possibly do if he has sent you exactly what you asked for. I feel it's pretty clear to everyone here what your establishment is doing to him sir. Otherwise the SBR posters would be taking the books side on this position sir.

I hope your company reconsiders your stance in regards to his matter.

[Santo]

Moreover you are roaming on a different location and the other users is also logged in with your same IP with gaps of seconds.

This is interesting, and if true I'd be siding with GV. Have SBR got a copy of the logs that show this? If it's the same series of accounts, within seconds each time, then the poster has a case to answer imo.

I could understand multiple people / a series of accounts using the same IP address within a period of a week, or even the same day / few hours, but seconds indicates to me something's up, even allowing for the roaming IP address issue.

[tomcowley]

Hi Tomcowley,
It 100% correct what you stated, if you make two deposits one of 100euro and another one of 100Euro and your account is locked you will be reimbursed for both deposits.

Fair enough.

But if an account deposits on November 2007 and plays legitimate without any breach his account will stay open without any limits as there is no breach. Now if the same account after 7 months requests a new bonus with a new deposit and starts conflicting regularly with the same user on the same date at the same time. Then the action will be taken on the last bonus and the last deposit.

Only if the account has pending winning he will be refunded for both deposits but when the initial deposit was lost 6 months ago without any breach the first bonus is treated as over with no breach.

This is where your logic breaks down. What you're suggesting is that:

Account 1 was opened, bet, and went bust.

Account 2 was opened from a different IP and won (or at least kept a balance).

Account 1 redeposited, bet, won, and was found to now be using the same IP account 2 has been using for some time (or keeps sharing IP with account 2, whatever)

You only refunded Account 1's second deposit.

Now, if account 1 had won money, but simply been inactive, instead of bust, and then redposited for the same scenario, you would have confiscated all of account 1's winnings and refunded both deposits, even though the original winning play was not "fraudulent" because he only had one account at that time. Don't even try to tell me that you would have honored the winnings from before the time account 2 signed up (and paid out the initial deposit, early winnings, and second deposit). Your T&C explicitly state otherwise.

So instead of treating ALL early play on account 1 as fraudulent no matter what, you only treat it as fraudulent if it's winning play. The player could not get paid (now) if he had won early, but he can't get refunded since he lost early. That's an absolutely unfair position to take.

Take another example. Say 6 months ago you made a deposit of 100 euros and you won 1000euros you made a withdrawal and left the account inactive with 0 balance for 6 month. After 6 months you make a new deposit of 100Euros and request a new bonus. Say that during the second bonus you breached the rules so what shall we do? Do I tell you that on your first bonus you withdraw 1000Euro and you now have to give back the company 800Euso cause you only deposited 200Euros?

And this is why your policy isn't just unfair, it's flat out stupid. You assert that you can confiscate any winnings, even from years ago, as long as they're in the account when the account later becomes fraudulent. So yes, applying your logic to this scenario, the player would "owe" 900 profit that he'd withdrawn, get his new E100 deposit confiscated, and "owe" 800- a "debt" that could obviously never be collected.

Same is with the other case if you lose 100Euro 6 months ago we can’t count that 100euros with the second bonus.

Apples and oranges. Having no way to collect it in one case has no impact on whether or not you count it in another case. You know damn well you'd take that money if the player hadn't withdrawn, even if the account had been inactive for years with that E1000 balance.

This is why every single variation of "confiscating winnings for bonus abuse" is categorically absurd. You reserve the right to go back YEARS and void perfectly legitimate bets because of later problems, which is just nonsense- the two have nothing to do with each other. Once a bet is legitimately placed and properly graded, it should always stand. Nothing a player does in the future, or has done in the past, has the slightest thing to do with the outcome of that settled wager.

For wagering purposes, it's completely irrelevant if a player is multiaccounting you unless he's doing it to place over-the-limit bets, which is an entirely different scenario (that I'll assume doesn't apply here with E200 deposits).

The only activity that can cause you harm is the player taking multiple bonuses. It's completely irrelevant that the player is betting with two accounts, since he could just as easily have the money in one account and be making the same bets. Every bet he makes, by itself, is perfectly valid. You have no logical reason to void these bets (you wouldn't void them if anybody else had made them). The player's winnings from wagers have absolutely nothing to do with the second bonus- confiscating one because of a problem with the other is simply nonsense.

Your only valid concern is with the second bonus, so confiscate the BONUS. Not the winnings, which are perfectly valid (unless over-the-limit bets were made), only the bonus. Then close both accounts and charge them processing fees.

You avoid all these ridiculous disputes over confiscation of old winnings, and the players know that when they place a legitimate bet, they'll always get paid. I hear that's a much better reputation to have than to be known as some random crapbook that thinks it has the right to steal winnings from legitimate bets placed years ago.

If you'd actually think about it logically, and not take a position based on sheer greed (ZOMG, stealing balances is like printing free money, that has to be the right solution to any player being bad..) which is pretty much what your T&C says

The Account Holders of GoldVictory agree to abide by these Terms and Conditions at all times ... In the event of an Account Holder not respecting one or more of the rules as mentioned, GoldVictory will close the account and confiscate the available funds.

and then defend that position with self-inconsistent nonsense, you might get some respect and more business in the long run.

[TruckerJoe]

Cheers for the support guys. And great post Tom, nice one.

If you wish further clarification you are free to contact us back, I will give you all logins including times and IP of your activity. You can past them here and I can indicate to the moderator how many times you conflicted with other user and the gap of time between one login and another. I think the moderator will have a better view of your activitiy.

Lets get this straight. You will give me every log in IP address and time from every one of the 4 accounts that you claim I have been using?

If you are so sure that I have been operating these accounts, I take it you won't mind reminding me of every bet and amount I have supposedly placed. And how much you have confiscated from each account?

And if you really are sure, then you wouldn't mind telling me the 3 other usernames, their actual names and their email addresses?

[GVstaff2]

GVstaff2,

SBR poster TruckerJoe sent you everything you asked for along with receipts to prove his case as per your request mind you. I don't see what more he can possibly do if he has sent you exactly what you asked for. I feel it's pretty clear to everyone here what your establishment is doing to him sir. Otherwise the SBR posters would be taking the books side on this position sir.

I hope your company reconsiders your stance in regards to his matter.

Dear Moderator,

Kindly note that the evidence submitted give us more specific evidence that he is conflicting directly with the same other user. This case is clear and we cannot reopen the account if not instructed by the LGA. As mentioned before there is a pending report with LGA, all evidence had been submitted to them as per their request and if not instructed by the LGA we cannot reinstate his account.

I believe you are aware how strict LGA are and if my company is proven by LGA that we will be directly instructed by them to reveres all.

Once more you can contact me or submit your phone number and I will personally call you and explain to you the case step by step.

Rgs
GV

[woodg8]

Dear Moderator,

Kindly note that the evidence submitted give us more specific evidence that he is conflicting directly with the same other user. This case is clear and we cannot reopen the account if not instructed by the LGA. As mentioned before there is a pending report with LGA, all evidence had been submitted to them as per their request and if not instructed by the LGA we cannot reinstate his account.

I believe you are aware how strict LGA are and if my company is proven by LGA that we will be directly instructed by them to reveres all.

Once more you can contact me or submit your phone number and I will personally call you and explain to you the case step by step.

Rgs
GV

You completely avoided tomcowley's post.

[GVstaff2]

Dear Tomcowley,

My last post explained clear our operates. With regards to your question, if you are inactive for 5 years and you breach the rules and you are still in play YES!!! You will be refunded in full for all deposits in conjunction with the bonus. If you are still with money in your account it means you are still within the bonus T and C so there is no further way to go rather then submitting back all his deposits.

With regards to bonus and winning again… if you satisfied the T and C you can enjoy your winnings, but if on your second bonus you breach the T and C we don’t ask for money back as it simple logic that what had been obtained in the past in a legitimate way had nothing to do with the breach in the second one.

Moreover Note that the stupid way we operate is strictly licensed and regulated by the LGA Malta. Where over 150 other registered companies are licensed the same way we do.

My question here is why this case is so at heart to you? Do you have any issues with your account so far?

As I don’t recon any complaints from you at this stage!!

Once more if you wish me to get in touch with you, please submit an email and I will contact you back. Over the phone I can explin to you step by step how we do operate and why.

Rgs
GV

[GVstaff2]

woodg8 give me some time i will reply to all the post one by one dont worry