[pico]

anyone spent time doing this. when i say spending tme, i mean actually practice for at least couple of thousand throws. does the 3-v and hardway set really decrease the frequency of 7?

i always thought dice setting and controlled throw are bunch of bullocks. my friend spent 2 months practicing still getting 7 about 1/6 of the time with 3-v and axis throw. i think he throwed 3000 times.

[heineken]

I think it works, you have to be extremely good to get by in casinos with everyone watching.

[bigboydan]

Controling dice can be done, but you have to have one extremely study hand to throw them just right.

Here something you might want to check out.

Call'um up Pico

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[isetcap]

A colleague of mine was interested enough to pursue a "professional training course" that was held in Mississippi concerning this topic. He went there feeling certain there was some merit to the concept but came home much more skeptical. I myself have always been a skeptic and still remain so even though I am more objective towards casino gaming techniques than just about anybody you will find. If it is legitimate, I know it requires a mechanic's grip and 100s of thousands of trials on a true surface.

[Doug]

I think it could be done... by maybe 1 in 10,000 people that try it long enough.

[isetcap]

So easy a 12-year old can learn it in 15 minutes...but only if your momma named you Dominator.

[bigboydan]

Lets say you did master the art of dice controlling. You then would have to find casino's that paid true odds, because a lot of the riverboat type casino's don't offer them.

[pico]

Originally Posted by heineken

I think it works, you have to be extremely good to get by in casinos with everyone watching.

i see jokers at the craps tables do it all the time. esepecially late at night when there are only 2-3 shooters at the table. they first place the dice on the table, then carefully pick it up, and slowly swing their arm back a little and toss it. they try to make it consistent, but i didn't notice they hit 7 more or less than other shooters.

what i usually do is take the dice and chuck it as hard as i can...i usually pretend i am roger clemens or kenny roger, usually it bounce really high in to the air and land on the opposite of the table. it is hella fun to do it when you're plastered, but the pit boss doesn't seem to like it. craps is fun, but i don't really expect to win money in it, my goal is to break even and shoot the dice at least round.

[pico]

i think the pit boss don't like people make overhead throws. i was gonna see if sinkers give me less 7s.

[Justin7]

"Dice control" is real.

Stanford Wong (one of the most famous blackjack authors ever) proclaimed he could roll '7's less than 1/6th of the time. Fezzik, a sports bettor and former actuary, called Bullshit.

They had a "crap-off". 500 throws, action points with a total of 79 - I think it was $500 per point.. 83.3 would be the "fair" price. Wong won, hitting the 7 about 73 times.

I've read Wong's book (and a few others on dice control). It might take you 3 months of practice, but it works... And Casinos are much slower to throw out craps-players than BJ. Lots of people try to "set" the dice, and casinos encourage it.

On the down-side, you could probably earn more money working an honest job than from the equity you gain trying to tackle this. Not everyone can do it, and it takes a long time to get proficient at it.

[pico]

Originally Posted by Justin7

"Dice control" is real.

Stanford Wong (one of the most famous blackjack authors ever) proclaimed he could roll '7's less than 1/6th of the time. Fezzik, a sports bettor and former actuary, called Bullshit.

They had a "crap-off". 500 throws, action points with a total of 79 - I think it was $500 per point.. 83.3 would be the "fair" price. Wong won, hitting the 7 about 73 times.

I've read Wong's book (and a few others on dice control). It might take you 3 months of practice, but it works... And Casinos are much slower to throw out craps-players than BJ. Lots of people try to "set" the dice, and casinos encourage it.

On the down-side, you could probably earn more money working an honest job than from the equity you gain trying to tackle this. Not everyone can do it, and it takes a long time to get proficient at it.

that is a very small sample size. i read about stanford wong's contest before. if you think about it, he only hit 10 less. if you toss the coin 500 times as one iteration, would you be suprised if you get tail only 219 times?

[pico]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illusion_of_control

[thebigguy]

Dice Control is nearly impossible when you are socially excited from beer consumption.

[Justin7]

Originally Posted by picoman

that is a very small sample size. i read about stanford wong's contest before. if you think about it, he only hit 10 less. if you toss the coin 500 times as one iteration, would you be suprised if you get tail only 219 times?

I agree, it is a small sample size.

There are other statistical tools you use when training... A key is how often the dice rotate "in sync". If each die rotates the same number of times, you can always avoid a 7 with the right set...

Crappers rate themselves on their long-term "7 ratio". If you're rolling a 7 every 6.4 throws, you can make a fortune. The best claim to have ratios around 7.

I actually know a couple other throwers who have trained for this. It takes constant practice to keep up your game, and a huge time commitment up front. It's easier to just beat sports and Blackjack.

[pokernut9999]

Travel channel had a show about the gang that mastered dice throwing and it worked. It was a small group that won a ton of money. It was about a guy they let in that did not follow their rules and left after a few years to go alone. It took almost a year of practice I believe before he was let on the team. And yes they did get banned from some casinos.

[Ditaln1]

Originally Posted by pokernut9999

Travel channel had a show about the gang that mastered dice throwing and it worked. It was a small group that won a ton of money. It was about a guy they let in that did not follow their rules and left after a few years to go alone. It took almost a year of practice I believe before he was let on the team. And yes they did get banned from some casinos.

Ya, his name was Dom “Dice Dominator” LoRiggio . He is supposedly the best dice thrower in the world. They did a story about him on A&E I believe. He teamed up with Frank Scoblete , which is a sports author.

[Hellx]

Why would people need to sell courses or training seminars if they really know how to do this?

[pokernut9999]

Originally Posted by Hellx

Why would people need to sell courses or training seminars if they really know how to do this?

It takes more than one person to make it work.

[curious]

Originally Posted by Hellx

Why would people need to sell courses or training seminars if they really know how to do this?

<sigh> I get so sick of this idiotic question.

Variance my man. The expected value of selling a seminar is the price of the seminar - the expenses. The variance is the amount of expense you have to invest before you get any customers.

The variance in craps is astronomical. Even if you had true odds you could lose your entire bankroll really fast. You could also be up 6 figures really fast.

The key to bankroll growth is smoothing out variance while playing a positive expectation game.

One way to smooth out variance is to play enough trials that you have reached the law of large numbers. That means having a team where the team members play at different tables. Assuming that these team members can "control" the dice enough that they are playing a positive expectation game.

Teaching a seminar is a good way to find people who are skilled enough in what you are teaching that you find good prospects for your team.

[bigboydan]

FYI

Tonight on the Biography channel at 9pm est they have a show called Breaking Vegas, and tonights episode is on "The dice dominator".

[pico]

thanks dan

[bbyhill]

Originally Posted by Ditaln1

Ya, his name was Dom “Dice Dominator” LoRiggio . He is supposedly the best dice thrower in the world. They did a story about him on A&E I believe. He teamed up with Frank Scoblete , which is a sports author.

yes I saw that to and he was booked out of Vegas and Atlantic City and Now I believe he can only play over seas somewhere

[BrentCrude]

The most famous case of mastering throwing dice in craps is on BIOgraphy right now as I write this.The series is called Breaking Vegas and it's a true story that took place a few years back where a software engineer named Dominick from New Jersey did a number on Atlantic City &Vegas casinos.

[SHAWN GOTTI]

SOMETIMES....WHEN IM REALLY DRUNK....ILL GOTO THE TABLE, GET THE DICE....AND JUST PHUCKING CHUCK THEM AS FAR ACROSS THE CASINO AS POSSIBLLE!

I DONT MAKE ANY MONEY DOING! BUT, ITS FUNNY AS PHUCK!!

[donjuan]

The key to bankroll growth is smoothing out variance while playing a positive expectation game.

The key to bankroll growth is called the Kelly criterion.

[bbyhill]

the one were they built a regulation size table and practiced for hours everyday until they had an edge?He holds the record and I think he hit over 10 7's in a row

[alangrus]

While I do believe the stories, I am just so annoyed at shooters who take 3 minutes to set up each throw, then either bounce the dice off the table or Seven Out.

I will load up on the Dont Pass if I see a guy trying Dice Control.

[rake922]

Originally Posted by alangrus

While I do believe the stories, I am just so annoyed at shooters who take 3 minutes to set up each throw, then either bounce the dice off the table or Seven Out.

I will load up on the Dont Pass if I see a guy trying Dice Control.

lol I think

[LVHerbie]

Originally Posted by Justin7

"Dice control" is real.

Stanford Wong (one of the most famous blackjack authors ever) proclaimed he could roll '7's less than 1/6th of the time. Fezzik, a sports bettor and former actuary, called Bullshit.

They had a "crap-off". 500 throws, action points with a total of 79 - I think it was $500 per point.. 83.3 would be the "fair" price. Wong won, hitting the 7 about 73 times.

I've read Wong's book (and a few others on dice control). It might take you 3 months of practice, but it works... And Casinos are much slower to throw out craps-players than BJ. Lots of people try to "set" the dice, and casinos encourage it.

On the down-side, you could probably earn more money working an honest job than from the equity you gain trying to tackle this. Not everyone can do it, and it takes a long time to get proficient at it.

Anyone work the math / standard deviations involved with this? Seems like a damn small sample size especially considering the variance in craps....