[Andrey111]

At night, from 2nd to 3rd of December (GMT+2) 2007, i found, that i
can not login neither to my account at pinnacle, nor to my primary
email. Someone has stolen my passwords and changed security questions.

I wrote to pinnaclesports immediately, from my e-mail
and asking to block my account, of course, i send
documents which proof my identity. After my IDs were verificated, i
asked to give me access to my account back.

Unfortunately, i got it only on 5th of December, in evening, only then
i could see scamer's Webmoney ID and write to WebMoney security
service, asking them to block it... Of course that was too late. On the bill there was no money.
The swindlers have deduced money through an anonymous financial system of the Internet - Webmoney

But i am most shocked not because of such big delay in giving back
access to my account. I am quite surprised, that thief could withdraw
money at all !!!

The thing is, that i have opened account only a month ago and made a
first deposit using my credit card. As written in Pinnacles rules here
http://www.pinnaclesports.com/information.aspx?id=794 /Can I receive a payout back to my Credit Card ?/ :

"Please note that withdrawals from accounts with credit card deposits are processed with a cheque (CAD accounts only), bank wire transfer with the exception of RMB accounts, INSTADEBIT (CAD accounts only), myCitadel, (SEK, GBP, RMB and selected countries that use the EURO as their currency) Moneybookers (RMB accounts only) or NETELLER."

Customer support told me the same :
My question - "If i deposit money using my credit card, will i be able to use (deposit and withdraw) any e-currency systems (like moneybookers or webmoney)? Are there any restrictions or additional actions from my side required ? "
Answer : " Dear Sir,
Please note that accounts with credit card deposits may not use Moneybookers or Webmoney as a method to withdraw.
The availble methods will depend on the currency you choose for your account."

As long as it is pretty difficult for thief to organize fraud wire
transfer and all other methods are unavailable for EUR accounts, i felt quite safe..
I liked the idea on how to make deposit via credit card in euro's and this is exactly why I ve chosen pinnacle as a secure and trusted place for betting . Well let me just say I m extremely disappointed now.

Moreover, the balance was paid including a bonus, which turnover conditions and terms weren't met (http://www.pinnaclesports.com/information.aspx?id=1002 / What are the terms and conditions of the bonus/), so the thief stole not only mine, but pinnaclesports money too, very frustrating job from cashier team... It is all very unprofessionally and very suspiciously. And makes me think that there might have been some inside help in this fraud.

Concluding everything above, i believe that you will surely agree,
that in this case, pinnaclesports security and cashier departments
show fatal unprofessionalism and incompetence. If Pinnacle adhered own rules - I would save my money.

[Justin7]

Andrey,

I'm very sorry that you have been robbed. I have heard of other similar thefts via webmoney. It is clear that Webmoney does not have adequate anti-fraud measures, since money can be anonymously removed in a few days with no reversal possible.

I have another concern about Webmoney as well - it could be used for money laundering or funding of terrorism. With these oustanding issues, I would not want to leave money there, and might even write my sportsbooks to never allow a Webmoney withdrawal.

[Teddy_KGB]

It's sad to read your story. It's obvious that somebody has "guessed" (?) your password. Do (did) you use the same password on the account and on the primary email as well? Do you use any anti-virus program? Did not you find any hidden strange program in the processes? Have you ever used your account on public (or non safe) computers?

Do you see any trace that the thief deposited with webmoney? I think yes, because Pinnacle says : " Withdrawals using WebMoney are accepted only if funds were deposited using WebMoney"

however it's possible to withdraw more than the deposit : "Withdrawal requests that exceed the amount initially deposited with WebMoney, must go to a verified WebMoney passport with “Formal”, “Personal” or “Merchant” status. Requests to “Alias” Passports will be declined."


The main question is : is it possible to withdraw the full amount with webmoney after credit card deposits and a small webmoney deposit? I think the answer would be : NO!
If CS says not possible to withdraw the money through ewallets after CC deposit, how could the thief withdraw the full amount with webmoney?

Something is strange here, because if sombody deposits with credit card, he must send a SIGNED statement with the deposit details to Pinnacle before any withdraw. Did you send anything after the deposit?

I really don't know that was any connection between the thief and Pinnacle. Pinnacle is well known about their good odds and they are the one only bookie who does not give you any personal limit whatever how much do you win. I feel sorry for you however I doubt that you will ever get back your money.

[purecarnagge]

disput it on your credit card. They do have a Fraud department. You could just dispute the original transfer, but then Pinnacle would be pissed at you.

[MrX]

If Justin has seen multiple cases of robberies involving Webmoney, it seems like a slam-dunk that anyone not planning on using Webmoney should write to their sportsbooks and disable the option (and get it in writing).

[Justin7]

Originally Posted by MrX

If Justin has seen multiple cases of robberies involving Webmoney, it seems like a slam-dunk that anyone not planning on using Webmoney should write to their sportsbooks and disable the option (and get it in writing).

I only have 1 "reported" case - this one. But I have heard of similar problems through other sources. Hackers get a keylogger, and can empty out any account that can deposit via webmoney. They do a minimum deposit, wait a day or two, and withdraw the balance to WM. Once they withdraw, they turn it into "e-gold", and it is out of WM.

This is a very serious security problem. To my knowledge, this the only way I know of to steal from an account (although we've heard stories of casino scams, other players do not profit from that).

[katstale]

Originally Posted by Justin7

I only have 1 "reported" case - this one. But I have heard of similar problems through other sources. Hackers get a keylogger, and can empty out any account that can deposit via webmoney. They do a minimum deposit, wait a day or two, and withdraw the balance to WM. Once they withdraw, they turn it into "e-gold", and it is out of WM.

This is a very serious security problem. To my knowledge, this the only way I know of to steal from an account (although we've heard stories of casino scams, other players do not profit from that).

I believe everyone is missing the point here--the OP is correct that this is now a Pinny problem and they owe him his money. They violated there own stated money withdraw rules and that facilitated the thief. I believe SBR should help this guy. I know from experience under normal precedures at Pinny--it is first in, first out--ALWAYS with no exceptions.

Pinny is at fault here and thus liable.

[Andrey111]

The loss of the passwords is already other history.

I do not speak about . why Pinnacles security department didn't notice, that :
- password and secret question were changed from another IP, which is
not usual for me.
- Very small deposit of newly created (2-Dec-2007) WebMoney ID and
IMMEDIATE request of withdrawal of all account balance, even it is not
allowed but cashier rules!
- Moreover, the balance was paid including a bonus, which turnover
conditions weren't met, so the thief stole not only mine, but
pinnaclesports money too, very frustrating job from cashier team...
ll this softly speaking not so professionally.

I SPEAK ABOUT IT :
When I chose to myself sportstbooks, I searched sporstbooks only with such rule:
" Accounts with credit card deposits may not use Moneybookers or Webmoney as a method to withdraw ".
This rule should in addition secure me.
And I have found such spotsbooks it - Pinnacle. And I have put money in this office.
In a result Pinnacle has broken the rules and I have lost money.
If the rules were not broken - I would save money.

[CrazyLou]

Originally Posted by Andrey111

When I chose to myself sportstbooks, I searched sporstbooks only with such rule:
" Accounts with credit card deposits may not use Moneybookers or Webmoney as a method to withdraw ".

I've never used either of those payment services, so I can't comment on a security standpoint. However I'm curious about you specifically searching for this particular rule before you chose the sportsbook. Did you expect something like this was going to happen?

I'd urge you to fill out this complaint form as soon as possible.

[Andrey111]

Originally Posted by crazyl

However I'm curious about you specifically searching for this particular rule before you chose the sportsbook. Did you expect something like this was going to happen?

I'd urge you to fill out this complaint form as soon as possible.

No. But money it not jokes. Therefore this rule also owed in addition and completely secure me.
The complaint and correspondence with Pinnacles, I have sent in SBR yesterday.

[CrazyLou]

I definitely understand your frustration, a lot of us are scared of having our accounts hijacked, I'd really like to know if you ever do find out who has done this how they gained access to your account. I'm sure if everything is as stated you will get your funds back.

[pico]

webmoney works like neteller?

[Andrey111]

Originally Posted by crazyl

I definitely understand your frustration, a lot of us are scared of having our accounts hijacked, I'd really like to know if you ever do find out who has done this how they gained access to your account. I'm sure if everything is as stated you will get your funds back.

Who has stolen my money most likely never will be will catch. As I already wrote above, access to the bill to me have returned for the fifth day, I have seen that money has left on webmoney at once has written to them, but to me have answered that money was translated in system LR. To find a criminal on IP too most likely it is not obviously possible, you see are be not only static, but also dynamic IP (too most that anonymous).

[Andrey111]

Originally Posted by picoman

webmoney works like neteller?

No. webmoney as against neteller in the majority anonymous structure.
In webmoney there are " formal purses " - anonymous and " personal purses " - adhered to the real documents.
Pinnacle has given out to the swindlers my money to an anonymous purse.

[betplom]

Any updates on this dispute?

[pico]

dealing with pinnacle is kind of frustrating, since you can't call them. so you'll get a email from cs saying, "we have forwardsed your info to the accounting department, and they'll get back to you when they have an answer"

[durito]

You can certainly call Pinnacle. They just don't give out the # because they don't want to have to deal with all the calls from morons that I'm sure most books get daily.

[pico]

Originally Posted by durito

You can certainly call Pinnacle. They just don't give out the # because they don't want to have to deal with all the calls from morons that I'm sure most books get daily.

you can call them yes, but they'll say email them the question.

[Andrey111]

I have written Bill Dozer. I wait.

[Andrey111]

After departure of my complaint in sbr, with me has communicated Josh West.
He writes:
" Normally when funds are stolen from a player account, it is a sad situation, but the book shares no part of the blame. However you rightly point out that the money should not have been sent to Webmoney by the rules since he deposited with credit card. On top of that the money hadn't been rolled over so no withdrawal should have been allowed. Either one of these things should have stopped the withdrawal, but somehow did not.

I have emailed Pinnacle asking for possible compensation and a better explination of how this could have happen. "

But it was December 28

[jjgold]

Andrey if they do not pay I will slam them on youtube everyday for the next 6 months

Let me know

[2Pac]

Originally Posted by jjgold

Andrey if they do not pay I will slam them on youtube everyday for the next 6 months

Let me know

I'm sure Pinny is shaking.

I like your vids, but they only average like 30 views.

[JimmyG]

Originally Posted by 2Pac

I'm sure Pinny is shaking.

I like your vids, but they only average like 30 views.

Give it time JJ

It takes timne to build a youtube fanbase

eventually im guessing you'll have 3,000 views easyyyy

[icemantbi]

Everyone should set their web browsers to not save passwords of any site where there is a financial interest at stake. Furthermore, I would suggest changing your password from time to time at these sites as well. I had the same problem a couple years ago when someone got access to my paypal account, and started using the funds in it to buy stuff on ebay. Thankfully, Paypal were very professional with me and I didn't lose a dime.

[Andrey111]

2 moderators
This theme moves on a forum. It is possible to make this theme static?
In my opinion, this theme important. You see the speech goes about reputation books which occupies the first line in a rating on sbr. Also speech goes about job (and efficiency) of all service sbr.

What news in my case I shall tell later.

[MrX]

Originally Posted by Andrey111

What news in my case I shall tell later.

Please to tell news now.

[tacomax]

[Stumpage]

LOL!

That's a classic, Taco.....

[BigBollocks]

This entire situation makes me sick, and has been going on with WebMoney for sometime now. I really hope this gets resolved promptly and that you get your money back Andrey...

[purecarnagge]

JJ to take pinnacle to the woodshed? Cmon lets see the video, cmon JJ. GET HER DONE!!!!!

[brock]

Originally Posted by BigBollocks

This entire situation makes me sick, and has been going on with WebMoney for sometime now. I really hope this gets resolved promptly and that you get your money back Andrey...

this sums it up

[Andrey111]

Originally Posted by jjgold

Andrey if they do not pay I will slam them on youtube everyday for the next 6 months

Let me know

Thanks that you want to help me. But I not absolutely understand that you mean.
What is this vids? Tell please, is more detailed. Please give, links the similar examples.

[purecarnagge]

Maybe webmoney is stealing your money

Anyways, you should get your money back

NO updates?

[zerocage]

Always change passwords often, clear your cache, so on and so forth........

[tacomax]

Originally Posted by Andrey111

But I not absolutely understand that you mean.

Irony at it's finest.