[imgv94]

In my opinion by far the best movie Michael Moore ever made. It showcases how horrible these health insurances companies are.

His negative portrayal of the health care system in the USA really opened my eyes to how evil the insurance companies actually are.

I know we have some posters from outside the U.S I'd really like to know how the health care system works in other countries cause it's definitely not working here..


Has anyone seen this movie? I'd really like to discuss this movie in detail.

[robzilla]

Saw it a few weeks ago.
Im from London Ontario canada. In the movie, Micheal moores' parents buy insurance at the Sears at Masonville Mall, which is 2 minutes from my house. I guess his family live in a town near London. He had the North American premire at the Silver City Cinema at Masonville mall. It was cool to see the hospital in my city and a few other places in London featured in the movie. Im not sure if many people know where London ontario is. Kinda crazy since we do have bout 500,000 people.

[Scorpion]

In my opinion by far the best movie Michael Moore ever made. It showcases how horrible these health insurances companies are.

His negative portrayal of the health care system in the USA really opened my eyes to how evil the insurance companies actually are.

I know we have some posters from outside the U.S I'd really like to know how the health care system works in other countries cause it's definitely not working here..


Has anyone seen this movie? I'd really like to discuss this movie in detail.

isnt health care free in canada?

[robzilla]

isnt health care free in canada?

Depends on what you mean by "Free".

The taxes here in Ontario i think are 13.5% (6% GST "federal tax+ 7.5% PST "provincial tax).

so if i buy a candy bar for a buck, 13.5 cents is going to taxes that pay for health care, schooling, and whatever else govenments pay for.

So yeah I may be paying for someone else to have open heart surgery or whatever...but odds are I or someone in my family is going to need an operation that would cost a million dollars in the states, or maybe not even get approved in the states cuz Blue Shield wont pay.

The taxes used to be 15%, but now that the govenment has a surplus and all of our services are doing okay the government is going to slowly lower taxes.

When you go to the hospital you dont want to be worried about how much its going to cost.

Id rather pay a million bucks over my lifetime than all at once in 50 years.

[Pistol Pete]

Many canadians with real serious problems wait forever to get it taken care of. Thats why anyone with money will come to america for serious health care.

Free heath care is a joke. It causes double coverage. Right now in america most husband and wife work, but are under insurance from either wife or husbands plan. If free heath care goes through the people would be paying double coverage.

Free health care is only good for the real poor, but then again they get health care now and just dont pay. That is why hospitals in California are going out of business b/c illegals get care and never pay.

IMGV im glad it opened your eyes but every business is evil and greedy. Health care is a joke, people are just as greedy complaining b/c there co pay goes up $20 come on.

BTW i dont have health care. Anyone that thinks free health care is good do me one favor, name one thing our government does well compared to private business? good luck with that.

[robzilla]

Many canadians with real serious problems wait forever to get it taken care of. Thats why anyone with money will come to america for serious health care.

This is half true. Many canadians who need MRIs go to the USA because there's simply more MRI machines there.

As far as wait times go... My gf works at a hospital. The longest wait time for a non emergency she's ever seen is 5 to 6 hours. This is usually after hours.

Free heath care is a joke. It causes double coverage. Right now in america most husband and wife work, but are under insurance from either wife or husbands plan. If free heath care goes through the people would be paying double coverage.

Americans will never get free health care ever. The insurance companies have a strangle hold on everyone. They control the government. We also get health care coverage through work places. Usually work insurance plans cover expensive meds and dentist visits.

Free health care is only good for the real poor, but then again they get health care now and just dont pay. That is why hospitals in California are going out of business b/c illegals get care and never pay.

Depends what your definition of real poor is. Id say in your country 20% of the population isnt real poor. Maybe the workplace of illegals should be paying directly to the healthcare system for flooding it.

IMGV im glad it opened your eyes but every business is evil and greedy. Health care is a joke, people are just as greedy complaining b/c there co pay goes up $20 come on.

BTW i dont have health care. Anyone that thinks free health care is good do me one favor, name one thing our government does well compared to private business? good luck with that.

your right in a way. Businesses are out to make a buck. But getting emergency treatment shouldnt be a financial decision. What happens when you know you need a surgery to save your life and your insurance denies it? I happens to people everyday. you health should be your doctors choice, not Blue Shields choice.

Next you are gonna tell me no child left behind is a good idea. Or the online gaming ban is awesome.

These republicans idiots are brainwashed.

[Rollins08]

Robzilla,
How well are doctors paid in Canada?

[robzilla]

Robzilla,
How well are doctors paid in Canada?

Depends what kinda doctor you are talking about.
A family doctor clears 100K no prob.
RNs make 60K+
RPN make 50-60K
Surgeons, depending on what kind can make 225-650K.
Psych docs make 150K

In the states MDs are paid by HMO and have to account for their time and get paid based on that. They also get paid by some drug companies to push certain drugs. Ever notice your doctor has alot of Zoloft or wellbutrin pens around the office?

[Scorpion]

In the states MDs are paid by HMO and have to account for their time and get paid based on that. They also get paid by some drug companies to push certain drugs. Ever notice your doctor has alot of Zoloft or wellbutrin pens around the office?

Yes, and of course the free samples they always have!

[robzilla]

Ever wonder why Nasonex and that Head On shit always has commercials on CNN? The companies that make that crap dont pay for air time.

The pharm companies are the engine of the american economy...just like the car companies used to be. Keeping people sick is the business they are in. So they treat the symptoms and not the illness. Im sure they could find a cure for a lot of things...probably even AIDS... but where is the money in that? dont you think pharm companies want you to buy 100,000 pills and not just 1?

you know that part in SICKO where they go to Cuba and that girls medication is only 5 bucks and in america she was paying 200.00 or something like that? 5 Bucks is the real cost of the medication. But in america everyone gets a cut before the meds even hit the shelf. government takes some money, insurance companies want some, some goes to classaction lawsuits that the company owes for, wallgreens or whereever you go takes some.... and before u know it a $5 allergy med price has jumped 2000%. And the people dont care cause they got insurance, but insurance isnt even paying for the drug cause they already got paid by the drug company. And then Merks IPO goes up cause 78% of the doctors in Utah exclusively use that medication.


Its just a big circle.

[Always_Over]

Yeah, that you have to wait forever in Canada is a myth, spread around by guess who, Republicans on American talk shows.

I did hear, from a Canadian, that after you make a certain amount of money the tax in Canada goes up to 50%. But I suppose if you get free health care for the entire family and Free College Education, its work it.

Like the part in the movie from France, where they ask the couple what Bills they have to pay and they answer, Vegetables, LOL,
Moore, "You have to pay for vegetables."
"Yes, OH! and for the fish."
LOL
So you pay more taxes, but that essentially is your only bill.

[robzilla]

Yeah, that you have to wait forever in Canada is a myth, spread around by guess who, Republicans on American talk shows.

I did hear, from a Canadian, that after you make a certain amount of money the tax in Canada goes up to 50%. But I suppose if you get free health care for the entire family and Free College Education, its work it.

Like the part in the movie from France, where they ask the couple what Bills they have to pay and they answer, Vegetables, LOL,
Moore, "You have to pay for vegetables."
"Yes, OH! and for the fish."
LOL
So you pay more taxes, but that essentially is your only bill.

Yep its true that there are different tax bracets. I suppose when you make a certain amount that you might have to pay 50% in taxes. you usually get an awsome tax return though. taxes usually increase when you work more hours than you should. ex. 20 hours of overtime. the canadian government has a few loop holes for rich people.

[robzilla]

I hate the American attitude of never admitting they are wrong.

Even when proved they are wrong, ex. weapons of mass destruction.... nope, we were right about that.

and the way that the people stand up of this crap is insane.

American leaders dont wanna tell the truth about thing cuz it will hurt the troops feelings....or so they say.

At some point, republicans especially, lost the ability to think for themselves. Some thing similar happend in Germany a while back.

[Tchocky]

I saw this movie this past summer in the theatres. It made me feel "sicko". I can't believe how good the rest of the world has it.

[RageWizard]

I hate the American attitude of never admitting they are wrong.

Even when proved they are wrong, ex. weapons of mass destruction.... nope, we were right about that.

and the way that the people stand up of this crap is insane.

American leaders dont wanna tell the truth about thing cuz it will hurt the troops feelings....or so they say.

At some point, republicans especially, lost the ability to think for themselves. Some thing similar happend in Germany a while back.

I have no problem admitting when I'm wrong.
I was thinking of taking a page out of the Mexican play book by moving up to Canada. I already have to work there about 1 week a month. I was wondering, since we ugly Americans can't joke about the Canadian money, ( you know all the colors and heavy pockets from the dollar and two dollar coins). How much would say a family of 4 who rake in about $90,000.00 US ( its about the same in Canadian now),have to pay in taxes. When I add up my tax bill for the year and the health insurance for the whole family its around 30 to 40 percent, and I get would get in trouble for sports investing on-line, and smoking the Northern lights if they caught me. It may be time to move to the "NEW" land of the free.

[robzilla]

I have no problem admitting when I'm wrong.
I was thinking of taking a page out of the Mexican play book by moving up to Canada. I already have to work there about 1 week a month. I was wondering, since we ugly Americans can't joke about the Canadian money, ( you know all the colors and heavy pockets from the dollar and two dollar coins). How much would say a family of 4 who rake in about $90,000.00 US ( its about the same in Canadian now),have to pay in taxes. When I add up my tax bill for the year and the health insurance for the whole family its around 30 to 40 percent, and I get would get in trouble for sports investing on-line, and smoking the Northern lights if they caught me. It may be time to move to the "NEW" land of the free.

at 90K less than 25% would be taxable. that would go up if that salary is based on overtime but it wouldnt if that is your actual income.

you can bet on sports at the 7-11 here. The govenment runs sports lottery. It how a got my start, betting 3 game parlays.

Police rarely do raids on grow ops anymore. A news report last week said anywhere in my city is a 5 minute walk from a grow op. so u can smoke, but smoking is banned pretty much everywhere except in ur home and outside.

[betplom]

I've seen it a couple of times, excellent flick!

Informative -if you have an open mind.

How about the segment near the end of the movie when they were in Cuba getting treatment from their "enemies" LOL. I bet THAT opened some eyes. It was nice to see the Cuban firefighters wishing to show/pay respect for their NYC firefighter counterparts.

Having been to Cuba on numerous vacations over the last couple of years it hardly surprised me that they showed how generous the Cuban people are, forget all the US/Cuban gov't BS people are people. Cubans are good. I'm looking forward to my next trip to Cuba in January (Enero).

Thank god I live in a country that doesn't tell me where I can and cannot go on vacation!
Oh yeah, and one that doesn't mind the fact that I bet offshore. Ahhh, freedom.

[Starion]

It gets annoying reading this american bashing drivel every other thread. Let me ask you this. Where does nearly ALL of the drug innovation originate? and it's no coincidence either.

[shrax4]

The US is run by large corporations. No way in hell the insurance companies will allow for everyone in the US to have health care for all. They would lose far too much profit.

The movie certainly is sick. Check out this deleted scene from the movie about Norway.
http://www.slashfilm.com/2007/11/22/...-moores-sicko/

[JBC77]

Lets not forget that his movies.......are entertainment.

[betplom]

It gets annoying reading this american bashing drivel every other thread. Let me ask you this. Where does nearly ALL of the drug innovation originate? and it's no coincidence either.

I can relate, I (and I'm sure others) find it annoying reading/seeing/hearing all the American propaganda/drivel that comes out in the American media and then having to listen to those who actually believe it rehash it relentlessly. Thank goodness for Stephen Colbert!

I hear ya brotha!

[goldengoat]

welcome to reality

health care system and health insurance is modern day organized crime

problem is people either don't know it or don't make enough noise about it

US government being called a democracy is hilarious

large corporations call most of the shots....this government is extremely corrupt but it stays acceptable enough to not enrage the general population

[flyingillini]

I can tell you this much.. as we speak the last ten days including today I have spent countless hours on the phone with Pharmacies and my insurance company. I have insurance but I am getting screwed big time and nothing I can do about it. I spend so much money on medication I need that my insurance is "supposed" to take care of.. it is one big racket!

[Starion]

Does America's healthcare system have problems? you bet. I can assure you though, anybody who is seriously ill isn't heading to Canada or Cuba for treatment. The entire world benefits from the drug innovations here. Cancer survival rates are higher here than any other country. That's a fact.

I keep hearing this reference to "free" healthcare. It doesn't exist anywhere on the planet. You are paying for it whether you realize it or not.

[betplom]

Does America's healthcare system have problems? you bet. I can assure you though, anybody who is seriously ill isn't heading to Canada or Cuba for treatment. The entire world benefits from the drug innovations here. Cancer survival rates are higher here than any other country. That's a fact.

I keep hearing this reference to "free" healthcare. It doesn't exist anywhere on the planet. You are paying for it whether you realize it or not.

I don't think anyone here believes its "free" (we pay taxes BIG) but it is available to all and the point of the film was about America not taking care of its own citizens, corporate profit before people. THAT is offensive! Why more Americans aren't enraged is beyond me.

America lags behind every industrialized nation in terms of available healthcare and longevity, go ahead save a few bucks with lower taxes, I'll pay the higher premium and not have to worry.

So what if the drug innovations are American in origin, I'm sure thats comforting to the person dying of a disease that cannot get those drugs to save his life. Is there such thing as a proud dead American?

[Starion]

You'll pay your higher premium because you have no choice. Your government runs your health, whether you like it or not. If they deny you care, you're screwed.

I however, can select any healthcare plan I want and I'm far from "rich".

[betplom]

You'll pay your higher premium because you have no choice. Your government runs your health, whether you like it or not. If they deny you care, you're screwed.

I however, can select any healthcare plan I want and I'm far from "rich".

Deny me care? LOL
No, that doesn't sound like something my government is interested in.
They don't make any profit by denying me health care, its a right in Canada, unfortunately we can't carry guns, we'll have to do without.
So you can choose who will deny you coverage, sounds like a great deal.

The point of the movie was how corporations make the decisions regarding Americans health, YOU have no choice, can you vote out an HMO or large corporation? No.

If you are rich than America has the finest care in the world, most Americans aren't rich. The movie wasn't about how happy people are with US healthcare.

Of course I'm just another pinko liberal. (That has 100% medical coverage)

I know Americans love to use the "choice" argument, along with the freedom argument, the US has more laws than any other country on the planet.

[Starion]

The fundamental difference between our philosophy is this. You TRUST Government, I however do NOT. It is the most incompetent organization in America. It is an obstacle, not a solution.

Who the hell is restricted to an HMO? I'm not and neither is any other american. If you don't want an HMO, don't purchase an HMO plan it's that simple. People "settle" for HMO's because it's cheaper and their job offers it.

If the insurance plans too damn expensive, they'd be out of business because nobody is required to buy them. Just like a deposit only sportsbook.

[betplom]

The fundamental difference between our philosophy is this. You TRUST Government, I however do NOT. It is the most incompetent organization in America. It is an obstacle, not a solution.

Who the hell is restricted to an HMO? I'm not and neither is any other american. If you don't want an HMO, don't purchase an HMO plan it's that simple. People "settle" for HMO's because it's cheaper and their job offers it.

If the insurance plans too damn expensive, they'd be out of business because nobody is required to buy them. Just like a deposit only sportsbook.

I agree with what you are saying, makes perfect sense, bottom line is that corporations have to choose between making money or saving lives and they will choose to save money.

I'm perfectly happy in Canada, I can stay, leave and return anytime I want, free as a bird, a Canadian passport isn't such a bad thing to have. As a Canadian I'm welcome in countries all over the planet.

So my government forces me to have healthcare, how barbaric!
They should be more concerned with helping large corporations make more money, now THAT is freedom!

[Starion]

ALL corporations are guilty of this. You're pointing the finger at the medical companies but it's across the board.

The automobile industry is a pefect example. In the past, they have done cost analysis between issuing a safety recall and paying victims families for the fatalities. That is setting a price per life. If it's cheaper, they'll just weather the lawsuits rather than saving lives. Yes it's wrong, but that's what happens.

The one important factor that I think your overlooking is this. The "greed" by the Medical corporations fuels the drive for innovation when it comes to new, life saving drugs. The entire world benefits from this and lives are saved as a result. Why is this always overlooked?

[betplom]

I'm not overlooking that, I agree with it, however an auto manufacturer doesn't make a decision to deny someone health care.

The point was made in the movie regarding the Fire or Police dept, why aren't they privatized? It should be the same for health care, it SHOULD be a right, but too many in the US are pre-programmed to believe that ther government shouldn't be involved in certain aspects of their life. The government is supposed to help its citizens, by not having universal healthcare America is cheating its citizens, you can choose to believe this or not, its already accepted in every industrialized nation in the world except the USA, ignorance is bliss I guess.

[Starion]

Dude I don't know about your Constitution, but let me tell you about mine (United States of AMERICA). This is the document in which the United States is founded upon.

There is nowhere in the U.S. Constitution that states that it is the role of the Government to provide healthcare. The Govt's job is to provide for the common defense of the Country, not provide a welfare state.

Your Canadian Constitution my be different and that it's your Canadian given right. That isn't the case here. You're "opinion" on how my country should run is irrelevent.

[robzilla]

I've seen it a couple of times, excellent flick!

Informative -if you have an open mind.

How about the segment near the end of the movie when they were in Cuba getting treatment from their "enemies" LOL. I bet THAT opened some eyes. It was nice to see the Cuban firefighters wishing to show/pay respect for their NYC firefighter counterparts.

Having been to Cuba on numerous vacations over the last couple of years it hardly surprised me that they showed how generous the Cuban people are, forget all the US/Cuban gov't BS people are people. Cubans are good. I'm looking forward to my next trip to Cuba in January (Enero).

Thank god I live in a country that doesn't tell me where I can and cannot go on vacation!
Oh yeah, and one that doesn't mind the fact that I bet offshore. Ahhh, freedom.

I went to Cuba last winter. It was awesome to be some where without obnoxious Americans. Although the french people pissed me off when they got there and were mad cuz the cubans didnt know French.

Maritimers are the best. We found a bunch of people from Nova Scotia and we hung out every night. good times.

[robzilla]

It gets annoying reading this american bashing drivel every other thread. Let me ask you this. Where does nearly ALL of the drug innovation originate? and it's no coincidence either.

"Drug innovation" happens in Japan. Japan is on the leading edge of technology that America wont even see until 5 years from not. The Japanise have developed Human growth hormone that makes Balco look silly.

[robzilla]

This is the Bottom line...

Why all the anti american talk?

Because the US has sucked all the money out of off shore gaming which is having a negitive impact on everyone.
Costa Rica, Antigua losing money and probably jobs. Not as many line moves, lower limits, etc. The market is getting sucked dry of American money... and for pretty much no reason.

offshore gaming is why this site is even here.