[Justin7]

The player deposited $250. Over a period of several weeks, he won a substantial amount, and received $4k in payouts. On November 27th, the player won in the casino, running his remaining balance up to $7336.50. On November 28th, the player requested a $3000 payout. The request was after 11:00am, and would not be processed until the following day per Wager Web's payout policy. Similarly, the $3000 was not deducted from his account at that time. Later afternoon, the remaining balance was lost in the casino.

Wager Web provided logs showing that on the afternoon of November 28, 2007, a person logged into the player's account using his account number and PIN. The IP address was identical to one used earlier by the player. The player stated that this IP was for his laptop, that he had the laptop with him at the time of the casino loss, and that no one used his computer to play in the casino.

The player first argues that he should not be responsible for the $7336 casino loss. A player is responsible for his own account. Someone had to enter his account number and PIN to access it. Wager Web has normal security, and is not responsible for the player's losses if someone else accessed his account.

The player also argued that if his payment were processed before the casino loss, $3000 less would have been lost. The industry standard is: if a player requests a withdrawal, and loses part of his balance before the withdrawal happens, that money is lost even if it reduces/cancels the payout. In this case, the account lost its balance, so there was no money to pay out.

Wager Web provided me transaction logs, IP logs, casino result logs, as well 30 minutes of recordings involving the player and management. I would note that Wager Web was extremely courteous and professional during discussions with the player about the results of its investigations. I would also note that the recording showed inconsistencies between what the player posted and what actually occurred. Sportsbookreview.com does not normally disclose facts publicly that are adverse to a complaining party. However, if a player misrepresents what happens in an open forum, it is only fair that the truth be disclosed. In this instance, the player and book had extensive discussions about the losing casino session. The recording also stated that the player was at work the entire time of the casino session (instead of on his way to pick up wired money).

In summary, Wager Web did nothing wrong.

[JBC77]

Slam dunk. Sounds like a done deal.

[20Four7]

Well done Justin, from reading his posts there seemed to be inconsistancies in his story, you just confirmed them. Anytime some player fires off in a forum about a "scam" book there is usually lots more to the story.

[JBC77]

How often do you guys get false reports? One out of ten? Higher?

These stories have to eat up a lot of time to investigate. Sounds like an administrative nightmare. Don't they realize it will be looked into?

[Stumpage]

The End.....Nice job once again, Justin.

[robmpink]

Nice job Justin and Wager Web for providing the information. This is a pretty idiotic shot the player tried taking.

[Bill Dozer]

Good Job Justin. It's good to see these WW cases being resolved quick.

[Justin7]

This one was fairly straightforward. I still have one Wager Web case open, but it is much more complicated.

[tacomax]

Originally Posted by Justin7

Wager Web provided logs showing that on the afternoon of November 28, 2007, a person logged into the player's account using his account number and PIN. The IP address was identical to one used earlier by the player. The player stated that this IP was for his laptop, that he had the laptop with him at the time of the casino loss, and that no one used his computer to play in the casino.

Good work.

Although the player shouldn't strictly be liable for casino losses (think of the numerous cases where information was stolen and enabled a third party to access an account) but if it was from the players laptop and the players IP address, it's pretty much a done deal in favour of the book.

However, Wagerweb might want to change their policy/software and not allow funds to be wagered that are pending a withdrawal. Someone with a bit of common sense (which the original complainer seemed to lack) could make a good case from exploiting these rules.

[Iwinyourmoney]

[dallasja]

Justin,
Thanks for following up. However there is some discrepancies in your detective work. I wrote my thread as close to details as possible. I have always maintained there are three sides to every story, yours, mine, and the truth; so I always like to tell it like it is.

Wager Web provided logs showing that on the afternoon of November 28, 2007, a person logged into the player's account using his account number and PIN. The IP address was identical to one used earlier by the player. The player stated that this IP was for his laptop, that he had the laptop with him at the time of the casino loss, and that no one used his computer to play in the casino.

IP addresses may be jumped on but MAC addresses are unique (for the most part) to each computer. Unless someone is trying to mask their device with another MAC.

The player first argues that he should not be responsible for the $7336 casino loss. A player is responsible for his own account. Someone had to enter his account number and PIN to access it. Wager Web has normal security, and is not responsible for the player's losses if someone else accessed his account.

This was not my first discussion with them. I asked them what happened to my entire balance. They said it was lost, so i tried to reason whatever I could think of to recuperate more.

The player also argued that if his payment were processed before the casino loss, $3000 less would have been lost. The industry standard is: if a player requests a withdrawal, and loses part of his balance before the withdrawal happens, that money is lost even if it reduces/cancels the payout. In this case, the account lost its balance, so there was no money to pay out.

Wager Web provided me transaction logs, IP logs, casino result logs, as well 30 minutes of recordings involving the player and management. I would note that Wager Web was extremely courteous and professional during discussions with the player about the results of its investigations. I would also note that the recording showed inconsistencies between what the player posted and what actually occurred. Sportsbookreview.com does not normally disclose facts publicly that are adverse to a complaining party. However, if a player misrepresents what happens in an open forum, it is only fair that the truth be disclosed. In this instance, the player and book had extensive discussions about the losing casino session. The recording also stated that the player was at work the entire time of the casino session (instead of on his way to pick up wired money).

I picked up the wired money and had a discussion with Angela to determine my balance. She said it was $7k. Ask for the tape on that. That occurred on my way to picking up money. I asked for another withdrawal and she said okay. I got to work, signed on some time later and it was zeroed out. Ask them to listen to the conversation with Angela. Then ask for the betting records between that time and the $0 amount. I know what was said to me and I did not play. If they're claiming it was lost because someone jumped onto the site on the same IP, ask for the MAC address of the computer used.

I appreciate your time in trying to help me out. I have done my best to tell it as it happened. I don't deny the second guy I spoke with was courteous at first, but how about ask for the tape of me talking to the guy before him requesting my money and them saying it's been paid out without asking for my information. Something to the extent of "man, you're busting my balls here" was said in that conversation.

Wagerweb may have an explanation, but I did not play.
Will you please send me the logs because they didn't offer them to me? Ask for that conversation too. They were upset I posted on your site and that one of you guys called them. Is it possible they doctored some log files after the fact to save face and their name with the sports betting community?

This was not an idiotic shot or false report and I am glad SBR looked into it. Question, if someone was playing on my account, they would have to change the name also eventually because it was registered under me.

Additionally - if the readers of this thread can come up with questions or anything that can help further or prove my case, that would be helpful. I will address all of them after several have posted. For example, any IT gurus or lawyers than can help pose questions that may solidify the account of the way things happened. My conversation with my balance versus the time it was lost, the betting amounts and series of transactions, the start and end times.
And if SBR is willing to use this information to further the investigation, I would be thankful. I will still donate a portion of any amount recovered to support this site. However, if they feel they've exhausted their efforts or feel they have already determined a resolution, i will accept that also.

But I am thankful for your help, if you side with me or not.


In summary, Wager Web did nothing wrong.

[Justin7]

Dallas,

I'll be happy to provide you with what they gave me. Email me at justin@sportsbookreview.com.

[Santo]

Did you lose the money, then call up, get told your balance was $7k (operator error or casino transactions hadn't reached the sportsbook accounting), and go from there?

[marc]

dallasja,

Is it possible that one of your coworkers got ahold of your account info?

[Shark79]

I have 1 question

Originally Posted by Justin7

The player deposited $250. Over a period of several weeks, he won a substantial amount, and received $4k in payouts. On November 27th, the player won in the casino, running his remaining balance up to $7336.50. On November 28th, the player requested a $3000 payout. The request was after 11:00am, and would not be processed until the following day per Wager Web's payout policy. Similarly, the $3000 was not deducted from his account at that time. Later afternoon, the remaining balance was lost in the casino.

Would this not be in favor of books? If he requested the PO when the balance was at $7336 ... I understand that at the time of request was way after the time WW does them ... but ... shouldnt they still take out the money and await next day ... he could've had $3k more and had only lost $4336 from "whoever entered his account and played"

I am not in favor of dallasja or WW ... I am just curious that this could happen to any of us ... and just because our request wasnt granted at the time ... we might lose thanks to a fvcking hacker. no?

[tacomax]

Originally Posted by dallasja

Justin,
Thanks for following up. However there is some discrepancies in your detective work. I wrote my thread as close to details as possible. I have always maintained there are three sides to every story, yours, mine, and the truth; so I always like to tell it like it is.

Three sides?

1) Justin's side
2) Your side
3) The truth

That appears to suggest that your side of the story isn't the truth. Is that the case?

[robmpink]

Originally Posted by Shark79

I have 1 question



Would this not be in favor of books? If he requested the PO when the balance was at $7336 ... I understand that at the time of request was way after the time WW does them ... but ... shouldnt they still take out the money and await next day ... he could've had $3k more and had only lost $4336 from "whoever entered his account and played"

I am not in favor of dallasja or WW ... I am just curious that this could happen to any of us ... and just because our request wasnt granted at the time ... we might lose thanks to a fvcking hacker. no?

Of course it is in favor of the book. Either request the payout during the given time, request it after the time and don't play what you want to withdraw. If I owned a book I would do the same thing. The book isn't open to help the player win.

[dallasja]

I'm telling the story as I know it, not as i believe it.
Santo - I never lost the money. I called them on the way to pick up the money, asked for my balance, asked for more money. logged on, the balance was at 0.

Marc - it is impossible that a co-worker got my account, i work from my own personal laptop, it was in my possession the whole time, and I am my own boss.

Shark - they don't process until the next morning, so yes, if i lose it before then, then I would not be able to receive it, but also, if i win before then, i should be able to collect. but that is not the case in this situation, unless the girl angela could have cut a check and debit my account right then.

Tacomax - Despite what is written of me, i have no reason to blatantly lie. Yes, some will say i have over $7 thousand reasons to, but i am just upset and feel this is unjust. Again if someone jumped on my account, i'll accept that as what happened; but i believe that is highly unlikely.

I will share the logs with whomever likes for you to analyze. After I have received them from Justin, i will report my observations.

Thank you.

[bigloser]

There is another wagerweb complaint. We shouldnt necesarily believe the book here

[dallasja]

Originally Posted by bigloser

There is another wagerweb complaint. We shouldnt necesarily believe the book here

thanks bigloser. i hope Wagerweb goes out of business. but they'll probably just resurface with another name.