[LVHerbie]

About a year ago I played, after a recommendation by a friend, at betmaker.com... Never had any problems, but cashed out the money to play elsewhere... Before Christmas I got the following email with the heading "XXXXX, Your free bet have been credited!" Recently, I was cleaning up my email account and noticed it again and figured I might as well make a couple bets and see if I could roll it over a few times... Anyhow I did just that, i.e, bet it a couple times and got it up to $42... not a big deal but I figured I would contact support to see what the restrictions were before I did anymore with it... This is when I found out it was not real money but "free gift money" for "recreational use only," i.e. no real value... Anyhow, I'm not a big time player or anything ($25 to $100 bets typically) and this was not for large sums of money but I thought I would make this public because, IMO, this was a clear misrepresentation and something I wouldn't expect from a SBR B rated book... and I know they won't be getting any more of my money... I've quoted the email and chat support below...

<< Hi XXXXX,

My name is Andrew, Account Executive with Betmaker. I want to personally thank you for betting with us.

Betmaker and I appreciate the opportunity to serve you!

To show our appreciation I have credited your account with $10 (Absolutely Free!) *.

All you have to do is login into your account at www.betmaker.com and you will find that you have an additional available balance of $10 to play on a straight bet or parlay. You can make this play over the internet or call me at 1-800-644-6405 and I will be happy to personally assist you.

In addition to the free $10, when you make your next deposit, you will be eligible for a 20% bonus (up to $500) on the amount of your deposit. We also offer many additional benefits for are valued players…but I can tell you all about them later.

If you don’t recall your account number/password or if you have any questions at all just send me an e-mail to help@betmaker.com or call me at 1-800-644-6405.

We look forward to serving all of your betting needs!

Sincerely,

Andrew Moore
Account Executive
www.betmaker.com


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*Terms and Conditions Apply
If you do not want to receive future mailings, please click here
Feedback & Help - For further information or assistance, please contact us at 1-800-644-6405 or help@betmaker.com >>

<< Maureen: Thank you for contacting customer service. What can I do for you?
XXXXX BMXXXX: hi, I had some money placed in my account... I was wondering what the restrictions on this money are?
Maureen: The $10. free gift money placed into your account is for recreational use only. The $10. or its winnings are to be used for your enjoyment and to become more familiar with our company and website. There are no payouts with any of these funds. On your deposits you may be entitled for a payout when eligible.
XXXXX BMXXXX: so you're telling me that it isn't real money at all?
Maureen: correct
XXXXX BMXXXX: lol... alright... thanks alot...
Maureen: You're welcome.
Maureen: May I help you with anything else?
XXXXX BMXXXX: nope... I think I got all the info I need... thanks...
Maureen: Thank you for contacting Customer Service. Should you have any further questions or queries, please do not hesitate to contact us. Have a great day!!! >>

[slash]

I think if you made some kind of deposit, you will be able to cash out the winnings from the free $10. If not, what a joke.

[Bill Dozer]

Yea, that is not acceptable. I'd like to think the clerk made an error and was confused. Otherwise, what you described sounds like a little bait n' switch. For one, you had already tried them so you didn't need the monopoly cash and two, there is no reason to go tinkering with real account balances like that. I'll ask management if there was a mistake or if we are missing something. Like Slash said, maybe the terms required a deposit and it was possible to withdraw it?

[pags11]

now that Bill's on them, you're in good shape...

[natrass]

Good post ... I see the letter has the * and then says T & Cs apply. that together with telling you its absolutely free and the 20% bonus ... clearly it IS meant to be real money.

Maureen is clearly a dope. She is embodiement of every stupid CS twat I have ever dealt with.

< edited for comment that may be contrued as threatening[ >

(I accept I have over-reacted here clearly and my comments regarding Maureen are a little excessive)

In fact I would love a new book to come out and have a slogan not sayiing "We are the best", "been around for ever (2 years)" or something.

But just "we dont employs retards in CS. And thats a promise". Id give them a go just for that. (Jay88 ... you can have that for free).

http://i.somethingawful.com/cliff/ih...page-98-05.jpg

[marc]

I would hope the clerk is wrong. I've nevr heard of a book giving you monopoly money before. You should ask to spoeak to andrew.

[BuddyBear]

not cool....they should be downgraded.....not to worry though Bill is on the case!

[LVHerbie]

Yea, that is not acceptable. I'd like to think the clerk made an error and was confused. Otherwise, what you described sounds like a little bait n' switch. For one, you had already tried them so you didn't need the monopoly cash and two, there is no reason to go tinkering with real account balances like that. I'll ask management if there was a mistake or if we are missing something. Like Slash said, maybe the terms required a deposit and it was possible to withdraw it?

I appriciate it Bill... clearly the money is not the issue here... I think everyone can see there is something wrong with this type of advertising in the industry...

[LVHerbie]

Just spoke with the friend who recommended this book last year to me... anyhow he said he received the same email and inquired about it too and was giving basically the same response... apparently this is their true intentions or someone gave multiple CS Reps the same bad info... on a side note this isn't the only bad experience he had with them... I guess they cold called him a couple days ago to get a redeposit offering a reload bonus... not sure of the exact circumstances but I guess they left him with a pretty bad taste earlier by somehow ending up charging him $45 to make a withdraw... he "politely" declined their newest bonus offer... Really interested to hear the response they give Bill on this situation...

[fixxer]

Hello!

I had the same story a few weeks ago.
I received the same email, then made a few succesful bets, and when I contacted CS via live chat, I got the same answer, that this is not real money, and I cannot cash it out in any condition.

I sent an email to the email address I received the promotion letter from (it was the email address of "somebody", not a "noreply" one), and after a week without response I sent the email again, to please explain what is the real story about this bonus, why do they say it's free than tell me later it's useless....It's a completely deceiving offer.....but no answer till now, and after it I don't really want to bet with Betmaker...

Fixx

[Bill Dozer]

I sent this link to CS Mgr. Silvia today and plan to speak with her shortly.

[slacker00]

If it's fake money, that fact should be clearly stated.

Anyone reading the original message would assume that it's real money, albeit maybe a 15x rollover required to withdraw.

With a lie like this, how can someone ever take them at their word.

[fixxer]

I received an email about this same "promotion" .....from Betzone, from silva@betzone.com.....I guess this is the mentioned Ms Silvia Bill wants to speak with....I copy the email here:

Hi xxxx,

Despite all the great action going on this month, I noticed that you haven't yet made a bet with us this year. By way of a New Year's gift and to allow you to test out our services again, I thought you might be interested in a free $10 wager. That's right; as a basketball fan, Betzone is giving you a $10 free-play to wager in any basketball games from now until this Sunday!!

So please don't miss this great opportunity, and as ever we wish you good luck with your betting. I've included a list of some of the NBA and NCAA hoop games below for your convenience.

Also remember that we offer several methods of deposit, all of which are easy and can be accessed over the website under the Banking Center section. If there is anything you are uncertain of, please don't hesitate to call me at 1-800-432-8026 or respond to this email. Our customer service department will be happy to assist you

This email is more deceiving imho that the previously mentioned one.....New year's gift, yeah....to be sure, that the same conditons apply, I contacted the live chat, and of course, no withdrawal is possible from this frenetic "New year's gift"......Oh, I also spoke with Maureen, but the chat receipt came from "Silvia".....kinda interesting....

"Maureen: It's fake money to encourage you to try our services"

Well, they encouraged me to never on earth deposit to them....

[pags11]

monopoly money blows...

[LVHerbie]

here's an interesting question... I left a couple dollars behind when I made my last withdraw... since they stacked this on top of the money that was already in my account are the bets I made for ten dollars (before I realized this was monopoly money) including the money I already had or have I been betting strictly the play money? I'm probably pushing $10 in there now (out of 42) but how am I suppose to know since 3/4th is pretend money and there isn't anyway to tell what is real and pretend?

[marc]

If they are sending emails to past clients, there is no way theyc an claim that the $10 was fake money and simply meant to give them an opportunity to try the service. These were former customers, they have already used the service before.

If they are going to claim that the $10 they placed into real money accounts were fake, then players have the right to claim that previous wagers that they made that lost should have been fake money as well and demand a refund. There are fake money acocunts and real money accounts, you don't need to be a brain surgeon to realize that the two don't mix

[Bill Dozer]

Silvia just got back to me and said that you guys are correct in that the funds should not have been called fake money and should be withdrawable.

I'm asking those who had this free bet placed in their account to email their acct. ID to assistance@sportsbookreview.com. You will be sent the correct payout requirements that applied to the promo you received.

BetMaker blames the error on a CS misunderstanding.

[JoshW]

Great that SBR got this resolved. The Betmaker group does a pretty good job resolving these type of issues. Their B rating is pretty generous, but they certainly try hard.

[TLD]

I just had a long talk with Betmaker, and what they tell me is consistent neither with what the folks earlier in this thread were told (that it’s all play money), nor what apparently Bill was just told by Sylvia (that it’s a withdrawable, real money bonus).

What I was told is that this is a Carib-style “sticky” bonus. That means the bonus itself can never be withdrawn (and in fact disappears from your account as soon as you make a withdrawal), but any winnings are real money.

A “sticky” bonus is kind of like a free play, but depending on how it’s used, it works out to be more the value of a cash bonus. Basically, it’s the equivalent of getting (in this case) a $10 free play every time you put your entire balance in play.

So if you put the $10 in play and win (let’s say at even money, to keep it simple), you now have $20 ($10 real plus $10 funny money). Now you can bet $20, and if you win you have $40 ($30 real plus $10 funny money). Now you can bet $40, and if you win you have $80 ($70 real plus $10 funny money).

You can never get at that final $10 to withdraw it, but you can keep betting it indefinitely. But you have to have your whole balance in play or you derive no value from it. It’s always the “last” $10 you bet.

It’s complicated and I’m probably explaining it poorly, but if you’ve gotten a bonus at Carib you’ll know what I mean. Anyway, I’m told that’s what this Betmaker $10 promotion is. You should be able to withdraw all but the $10 itself. (Though now that they’ve thoroughly confused everyone and angered many, maybe after talking to Bill they’re just going to change it retroactively to a cash bonus as a public relations thing.)

[pags11]

sounds like they changed their tune when Bill put some pressure on them...first a fake bonus, then a sticky bonus...I'm not buying...these guys stink...

[Bill Dozer]

TLD,

You may be right about the latest bonus which is why I mentioned that the ToS would be sent once it is determined which promo you have. The most recent promo applied to inactive accounts but for accounts who have wagered before.

You are also right about the sticky being better than a free-play in this situation. (Iif you don't let your balance ride it will do nothing for you).
I personally don't like it. The type of people the books want to attract with bonuses are the type who are going to be confused as hell by how this one works. Not to mention the clerk spends his/her hourly wage on educating players.

[LVHerbie]

Thanks for the assistance on this Bill and TLD. This whole mess could have easily been avoided by simply provided some sort of documentation in the email or on the website about what this bonus was and what the requirements where... I've gotten thousands of dollars in bonuses from numerous poker sites (including being given money with no deposit) and never ran into issues like this before... always play x number raked hands or get x number of points and the money is yours... too bad standards such as these don't exist totally in the sport betting community... but it's good to know that SBR (and few others) are watching out for the players and trying to change practices like this... Anyhow, I'm just glad I don't have more money tied up in this mess then the real/fack/real/sticky ten dollars that was given (sortof ;-) ) to me...

[SBR_John]

I hope the powers to be at Betmaker can get this settled asap. This is one book that has worked and worked hard on improving their SBR rating over a very long period. There are good people involved in this operation, some excellent talent.

[isetcap]

This would be an absolutely idiotic issue for Betmaker to allow themselves to downgraded over. My concern lies with rogue employee "Maureen" who somehow and for some reason decided that this was monopoly money. Something tells me she received a directive from someone higher up instructing her to handle these issues in this manner. That means it appears it was a company policy. Betmaker should be racing to release a statement describing how "Maureen" could have made such an error.

[pags11]

agreed isetcap...

[fixxer]

Thanks for solving this matter SBR...

I am pretty sure too that this was a company policy, not just the error by one CS worker (Maureen)....this was a very bad marketing move IMHO, which backfired, and now they deleted this silly fake thing, after SBR got involved. Still, they changed their minds, and made a decision which is good for the players, so I will still consider trying them....

[fixxer]

According to their CS, the conditions are these for the bonus:

Juan: In order for them to withdraw, they must make at least one deposit (no minimum).
10x RO on the sportsbook and 15x RO on the casino.

Not a single word about the "sticky" thing....Lol and it wasn't Maureen who I spoke with...

[JoshW]

Whenever a sportsbook offers anything free, they have to be 100% on what the rules are with their clerks, management, and most importantly with the players. Obviously anyone they give this to, is likely going to use at some point, so makes no sense not be clear and consistent on what is being offered.

[LVHerbie]

still have problems with this promo at betmaker.com... I've given Mr. Dozier all the information so I'm going to wait till I hear back from him before posting anything further...

[pags11]

keep checking in with him Herbie...he's busy, but he get's stuff taken care of...

[marc]

Herbie,

Are they still refusing to pay you?

[LVHerbie]

After all of what was stated above occured Mr. Dozer contacted them and I (at least in my case) was given the details that it was a 10x rollover with the orginal amount being sticky... I meet this requirement and then contacted cs to see if I was eligible for a withdraw... I was then told that it required a deposit... Bill contacted them again today, on my behalf, and was able to get the whole thing cleared up with the money sent to me via neteller... In closure there are a few points that I would like add...

a) this thing could have all been easily avoided if the restrictions had been posted/made clear up front (and next time I receive any type of free play / bonus I'm going to get the restrictions /requirements emailed to me before using it)
b) I'm sure there are many people, who aren't as diligent as me, that were given bad info orginally and didn't get their money, and finally...
c) I definintly don't think I would have gotten the same response and attention if Bill hadn't gotten involved for me (and others)...

Anyhow, again thank you Bill, and SBR, for getting involved in this because we need people like you to keep standing up for the players (even the small ones like me )

[Bill Dozer]

You are welcome. 10 bucks is 10 bucks but the point is to get the player to try you out. Hopefully BM learns from this and takes better care of the players they attract w/ their offers.