[jumper]

now that ive learned that sunset is owned by frank from change a bet i wanted to share my maze of deceit.i often become friends with agents,at change a bet luca mosca was my new buddy who offered to help me get pay back on stiff operator mauricio gomez.when change went down he directed me to sunset(bill,do you remember my issue with luca running off with my deposit and sunset disclaimed him as an agent).well i sent new money directly to sunset and they paid me evert time,luckily i had no balance when they went down.my other agent buddy found luca for me at bet on stars this football season.luca then paid me back because he didnt want bet on stars tarnished-makes me wonder about bet on stars but they have always paid me.now i hear frank from change a bet ownes bet wgn but noone knew this at beginning when i was deciding to give them a try.i have completed my rollover at bet wgn and will report if i get paid.they suckered me in with off lines(i hit a side on the dallas/kc game since they had 2.5)and all their bowl numbers are off.this entire experience has been a trip-this football season has been weird.i really screw up getting my royal balance to 34000,but everyone needs to know they came through for me and paid-that one would have really hurt.maybe this wise gut business is dying out-happy new year

[SBR_John]

Wow! Very good read. We will let Bill have a crack at this one.

[bigboydan]

your right john, this was one hell of a read, and very interesting read too i might add.

[onlooker]

Very interesting Jumper, thanks for sharing.

[Bill Dozer]

Yes, Jumper. I do vaguely remember that. How did you end up at WGN? I'm guessing they contacted you with the ChangeaBet client list. We first started sniffing around WGN when we saw those green bonus banners that clash with the rest of the site. They are from ChangeaBet's page.

These sites are very connected. Many of the bookies run in the same circles. It's not uncommon to see different crooks all eating at the same table in a CR restaraunt. The fly-by-nights and small start-ups often look for help from neighbors. The help might come in the form of customer lists, sharing a server or office space.

BetonStars says they bought their domain name from the service provider that hosted ChangeABet. They shared the same server that Changeabet used when they started. It took a few CR sources to convince me that BoS was not a remake of one of the failed sites or from the group that hosted them.

I would advise all players to steer clear of CR agents. Using an agent is like betting with a local bookie; you wouldn't do so unless you knew and trusted the person would pay. The book does not back the agent's money. An on-site agent can be a front for the book. When the player hits the big score the book can stiff the player and say it is between him and the agent. It's also a way for the book to offer credit without looking like they are making dumb business decisions.

[SBR_John]

BetonStars says they bought their domain name from the service provider that hosted ChangeABet. They shared the same server that Changeabet used when they started.

Thats a little unsettling. These new places need almost no money to open. If they have a bad early start they just shut down the domain name and open another.