[SBR_John]

Seriously, what can be done?

JC? Anyone?

Can we set up some kind of non-profit .org to issue a license and maitain rules of fair play?

Is there a legal response or team that can be formed to go after deadbeat bookmakers?

Does anyone have any ideas to stop future sportsbook.com & SBG type of scams and shut down crooked books like cascade?

[RickySteve]

Isn't there some jurisdiction in which these businesses can be held legally accountable?

[20Four7]

Originally Posted by RickySteve

Isn't there some jurisdiction in which these businesses can be held legally accountable?

I would like to think your 100% correct RickySteve, but I guess in Costa Rica it's not true.

[HedgeHog]

Originally Posted by SBR_John

Seriously, what can be done?

JC? Anyone?

Can we set up some kind of non-profit .org to issue a license and maitain rules of fair play?

Is there a legal response or team that can be formed to go after deadbeat bookmakers?

Does anyone have any ideas to stop future sportsbook.com & SBG type of scams and shut down crooked books like cascade?

In cases like Cascade, virtually nothing. Their rating dropped faster than a $20 hooker (that joke's for JJ). With SB and SBG, I feel you need to beat them to the punch and drop them to an F to warn future vics (I know we disagree on this point).

Given the rash of recent thefts, I think we need to concentrate on A+ Books. I remember not too long ago, SBR was trying to organize a type of insurance plan on the top books, whereby if one went under, the rest would chip in for a bailout. How great would it be if The Greek/BJ, Pinny, MB, Cris/BM, 5-Dimes and a few other top notch books stepped in to legitimize this shaken industry? A set of universal rules could be adopted by these top outlets so players and Books knew exactly what to expect. If this happened, you'd have a few dozen other solid outlets vying to get into this elite A+ group, because this is where most everyone would be playing. And the more Books that earned their way into A+ status, the more the insurance risk would be spread out. Pie in the sky dreaming I suppose.

[jjgold]

Nothing Johnny

[prop]

[prop]

[THE HITMAN]

Start a fund with all players chipping in $1. It will probably total $1 million. When it is decided that a book's been a thief..............take all the money out & hire a bunch of Johnny Knockdowns to hunt down the owner/board & go to work on them.
After one suffers the wrath, start all over again.
I'll chip in the first dollar and a few extra for some players who don't.

[JC]

If we can't convince places like the Rx and EOG to do the right thing, how can we expect other ad outs to follow?

There was a time when all of the gambling forums took a unified stance on certain core violations. Something changed between 2003 and 2005.

[jjgold]

Shrink is getting 10 dimes a month why would he stop promoting ? He is a thief and worried about himself not the player.

[acw]

Originally Posted by HedgeHog

I think we need to concentrate on A+ Books. I remember not too long ago, SBR was trying to organize a type of insurance plan on the top books, whereby if one went under, the rest would chip in for a bailout. How great would it be if The Greek/BJ, Pinny, MB, Cris/BM, 5-Dimes and a few other top notch books stepped in to legitimize this shaken industry?

I do not think Pinnacle wishes to be put on equal terms with someone like The Greek!

[SBR_John]

Well when you were away forum battles raged. MW and the Rx put up Tej's Royal as a main sponsor and things have never been the same since.

I don't think that is the answer. It would be great if we could ban together and agree not to promote the scum of the industry but that alone is not enough. We need a more comprehensive solution ensure fair play.

[Dark Horse]

Get all good books together and agree to a set of universal rules. That's step one. How you take it from there is up to you.

It could get worse before it gets better. The effects of last years law will only be known after this football season. Problems could have been avoided if gamblers were more informed about SBR. Most of us here play at safe books. So education of the general betting public is another important element. More aggressive advertising to promote SBR?

[JC]

Originally Posted by SBR_John

Well when you were away forum battles raged. MW and the Rx put up Tej's Royal as a main sponsor and things have never been the same since.

I don't think that is the answer. It would be great if we could ban together and agree not to promote the scum of the industry but that alone is not enough. We need a more comprehensive solution ensure fair play.

But how can we go to a place like ESPN that doesn't know any better and ask them to drop them when they still see the banners flying at the places that are supposed to be run by the experts.

How did a forum war lead to people taking shit books? Things should have been booming in 2003. WHy would forums have to lower their standards?

Something that I think could help. Legitimate places should unite and agree not to advertise next to shit books.

I'm not a big fan of bail outs or books cross-insuring each other.

[New Face]

Originally Posted by jjgold

Shrink is getting 10 dimes a month why would he stop promoting ? He is a thief and worried about himself not the player.

Question buddy your advertise is FOR FREEE ???

[SBR_John]

It just wont happen JC. These sites are businesses. When SBG and Sportsbook.com come knocking they come with big bucks. SIA once offered us more than we did in sales for the entire year to promote them. I can only imagine the kind of money SBG pays a place like the Rx to make them seem legit.

They just have more money than we as marketers have morals. Greed will always be heavy chalk over doing the right thing.

[HedgeHog]

Perhaps the A+ Books don't need to insure one another, but some type of insurance needs to be in place. It's kind of like FDIC insurance at Banks. If a player knows his account is safe up to say $25,000 at a certain Book, barring client fraud, he could choose to play there or take his chances at ScrewU.com that's uninsured. Funding that protection is an answer I don't have.

[curious]

Originally Posted by JC

But how can we go to a place like ESPN that doesn't know any better and ask them to drop them when they still see the banners flying at the places that are supposed to be run by the experts.

How did a forum war lead to people taking shit books? Things should have been booming in 2003. WHy would forums have to lower their standards?

Something that I think could help. Legitimate places should unite and agree not to advertise next to shit books.

I'm not a big fan of bail outs or books cross-insuring each other.

I have a meeting tomorrow with a sports writer at ESPN.

[New Face]

Good luck buddy !!

[JC]

Originally Posted by curious

I have a meeting tomorrow with a sports writer at ESPN.

Well let him know the ESPN odds page is posting odds and links to the worst of the worst.

Also, please let him know that all books are not like that and you have since found honest places like SBR that don't take the dirty money from the crooks.

[jon13009]

Looks like the books have a free reign regarding US funds because the US govt wants to stop the books and could care less about our funds.

All US depositors have is SBR acting as a watchdog on our behalf and screaming to forum members and through the ratings "Don't go there!", but it is inevitable the bad books will trap people in their nets.

[Wheell]

In answer to this post:

Nothing. SBG and Sportsbook.com are acting rationally, as is Lenny. Immorally? Yes. Irrationally? No. There is no way to punish their actions such that it would not be in their best interests to act the way they are acting.

[New Face]

SBG Global "User Friendly, Not Abuser Friendly"
SBG Global has responded to accusations that they refused to pay out winnings to a group of individuals following plays from a Connecticut radio sports handicapper.

In an interview with Gambling911.com, Senior management explained their position in the matter.

"We won't be cheated!" said a high ranking official in the company. "While we rarely have to, we do defend ourselves from this type of group play and it is clearly posted on our website: 'No syndicate or professional betting action allowed'."

A group of individual sports bettors are claiming that SBG Global is withholding payments from them. SBG is saying that this group has won a substantial sum of money over the last few months and that all initial deposits (investments) into this "scheme" have been paid.

"Those who won more than their deposits do not get paid additional amounts," management told Gambling911. "In Vegas you can't get away with this, why would we allow it online?"

While the player in question contends that over $200,000 is in dispute, SBG Global says it is just over $100,000 and that past winnings by the group were taken into account to determine that no additional money be owed.

The controversy involves a woman by the name of Darlene who worked for BetRoyal's casino arm. As part of SBG Global's agreement to purchase BetRoyal's sportsbook, Royal's deal was to convert casino players into sports bettors via Darlene. Instead, she was sending these "sharp players", SBG contends.

SBG Global alleges that the players were working in conjunction with Darlene and a radio sports handicapper out of Connecticut. One of the individuals admitted that he was being berated by the sports handicapper for not following his specific instructions on how to bet.

"Telling a group of people how to bet, how to play and for what amount, that is organized play and not permitted at SBG Global.

"BetRoyal was a disorganized company that had all types of people getting ridiculous bonuses and betting steam. SBG Global is a real company that studies betting patterns. We have plenty of people winning who get paid and get paid big, including customers who have come to us from BetRoyal.

"One guy came to us with a huge balance and kept pounding us but he was playing fairly and we ended up paying this guy deep into the six figures. He is still a customer with us. You never heard of BetRoyal customers not getting paid after they joined SBG prior to this incident with the syndicate group.

"We are not stupid. We know how to identify sharp action by following trends and how a group of people are all betting from the same area on steam plays. These are individuals who are not welcome at SBG Global and we simply show them the door so they can bet elsewhere."

SBG Global contends it took some time to catch on. While some of the players in this group lost money, others won big and SBG contends the winnings were more than the losses. Only 15 individuals were part of this group, SBG stated. Not the 50 that has been quoted.

"My conscience is clear at the end of the day," the SBG senior manager expressed in closing. "We are just protecting ourselves and our fair playing recreational customers."

The radio sports handicapper has gotten paid in full, according to SBG Global management.

[20Four7]

OK why has sebastian gotten paid out complete but everyone else is SOL. They took the wagers now pay out and then show them the door. But don't "catch on" steal then give them the boot.

It's interesting to see that they say Vegas wouldn't allow this. Isn't this exactly what Vegas has had happening with Dr. Bob? Vegas is combating it but is certainly paying out winners.

[louis]

Get other sites like eog and rx to take down their banners. Email the management of these sites and urge them to take the banners down. Make posts on the public forums urging players to stay away, and webmasters to not accept advertisement from them. email general@eog.com, and shrink@eog.com and urge them to not accept SBG advertising any more. SBR has really done a lot. It is time to get support from the other forums by signing up to other forums and making posts that they support SBR. I did this on EOG today, a place I have never posted before. I urged shrink to take down SBG's banners. He is not going to do it based on just my post. These industry players need to here from everyone. If they face an avalanche of posters asking that the banner be taken down, eventually they are going to have no choice but to take it down. The Rx just renames threads, deletes and/or hides posts so it is best to email their management, and email the other A books that advertise there and urge them to no longer give RX their advertising dollar.

[SBR_John]

Good idea guys and Louis, you are doing your part and thank you for that.

Players at Covers told mgmt there about the SBG and Sportsbook.com scams and nothing. Russ at MW has just ignored everything as has Tow. It was nice to see the EOG make a stand but now they are faced with losing money if they take down SBG.

Players should do as Louis has suggested. Its all you guys have for now. But I cant help but think we need a bigger solution.

[louis]

One idea is to create a website for each of these outfits. For example SBG would get a website: SBG will steal your money. All posts about SBG from all the forums would be copied over to this website. Anyone who bets at SBG and forgets their URL will do a search for SBG on google, and the SBG stoled my money website will come up in the search.

I think that SBR should somehow reward books that agree to only advertise on websites that will not accept advertisement from scam books. The reward could be lower advertising rates with SBR, an increase in rating, or perhaps a comment next to the book name here on SBR that the book is cooperating with the stop scam book program.

It is very frustrating to see what is going on, and then covers, eog, and rx, can only do token responses at best. Back in the neteller days, before the U.S. passed their legislation I believe there was so much business that covers, eog, and rx would have taken the scam sites down. My guess is SBR is growing while these others are losing business, and they simply can not afford to take down anything according to their simple math. If they thought about the long run however, they would not allow scam book advertising, would allow a temporary loss in revenue in exchange for a better long run reputation.

[operaman]

There needs to be a paid for service that specializes in dealing with these matters. This service would(among other things) have retained lawyers in the countries that the books/casinos/poker sites reside. The service could make the life of a book owner a living hell and make the best model for the crooked sb a little less criminal.

All these countries have ways of getting things done. If there was NO law in these countries there would be anachy.

I had 5 guys work me over for an hour for $2 down here. (truth and long story) Imagine the irritation one could cause a book if you paid 20 guys $20 a day for harrasment.
If you were an employee of this book would you come to work if you knew 20 highly irritating guys were waiting for you at a pickett line? You don't have to win a legal battle to get a person to say uncle and pay up.

My mother (one of the nastiest fighters i have ever met. ) had a problem with an old couple that wouldn't pay the rent.
She found out that this couple had been doing this to other landlords before. That is when the gloves came off. Well did she go the legal route that takes 1 month to get them out? No, she thought the front door needed paiting badly and took the door off the hinges right in front of the old timers. Then she ran out of paint. It was late dec. and it was about 40 degrees. The couple was not in the apt. the next day.

The question would be, would a service like this be profitable?

[SBR_John]

Originally Posted by operaman

There needs to be a paid for service that specializes in dealing with these matters. This service would(among other things) have retained lawyers in the countries that the books/casinos/poker sites reside. The service could make the life of a book owner a living hell and make the best model for the crooked sb a little less criminal.

All these countries have ways of getting things done. If there was NO law in these countries there would be anachy.

I had 5 guys work me over for an hour for $2 down here. (truth and long story) Imagine the irritation one could cause a book if you paid 20 guys $20 a day for harrasment.
If you were an employee of this book would you come to work if you knew 20 highly irritating guys were waiting for you at a pickett line? You don't have to win a legal battle to get a person to say uncle and pay up.


The question would be, would a service like this be profitable?

I like it.

It would have to be legal. I love the picket line idea, dont like the working a guy over idea so much.

And we would have to find a way to fund it and who would be entrusted with enforcement?

[jjgold]

Internet way too big to stop these guys, plus all they do is keep opening up books with different names , ect.

No way to stop them because internet gambling is illegal period so anything goes.

[copper]

For the record, I am one of Sebastian's customers. We paid him for picks. He provided us picks and a ranking system. How much each player bet was up to them. There is nothing wrong with what we did. Darlene left Hertitage and came to Bet Royal. She made it perfectly clear that Sebastian was a large player and that he sold sports picks. She also told them that he was red hot and they said, it is our linemaker's job to beat him. He will lose. They knew what type of clients they were getting from the beginning. I heard that 18 accounts were stolen for somewhere over $100k but I don't have exact figures. This is the first I heard that Sebastian got paid in full.

[NeedProtection]

Originally Posted by JC

Something that I think could help. Legitimate places should unite and agree not to advertise next to shit books.

I'm not a big fan of bail outs or books cross-insuring each other.

WSEX is chief among sinners here.

They have actively advertised and lined the pockets of these forums that do not care about the players. They have advertised at TheRx for years.

Before we can take anything you have to say seriously, you should encourage your former business partners to stop making things so lucrative for these places.

They should stop advertising and make a statement.

Why hasn't this happened yet?

[SBR_John]

The big books dont care. They dont even dislike the scammers. In Costa Rica the scammers eat at the same table as the respected bookmakers, go to the same meetings and from what I can tell seem to be buddies.

[NeedProtection]

wsex is supposed to be different.

How much business can they get from a place like therx anyway? I'm sure they are overpaying and it is more of a search engine placement thing than the reality of getting massive sign-ups from therx.

[increasedodds]

You need a centralized system that is backed by 10-15 books just like the U.S. banking system. The banks here realize if one gets destroyed they all get destroyed and they bail each other out with loans and investments. Has happened many times.

If you could get 10 books (Pinny, WSEX, Cris, 5dimes, Mansion, etc together - hell include some of the top UK books) and all 10 put up a fund (say 15% of their current balances) to cover any book that went under, you'd have a great system that would likely never fold.

Additionally all of these books would see significant increases in players as players would know their balances were backed by the full lot of books. Almost no one would go play at shit books if the top 15 were all banded together.

Further the 10-15 could do free transfers between them saving many headaches and many fees for themselves and customers.

Will never happen, but would be phenomenal if it did.

Additionally, a group this size would have the funds to lobby the U.S. government and if that failed, lobby the U.K. government to lobby the U.S. gov.

sean