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Globet refuse to pay
A friend of mine has a problem, Globet refuse to pay around 12800 euros that his mother has won from 4 motorbike bets, because he had taken one of the riders who won on his account too. He contacted IBAS and they said that they it will take about 3-4 weeks in order to have a look at his problem. Can he do anything else ?
SBR Founder Join Date: 8/20/2005
Contact Bill Dozer here at this site. He can help look into the issue.
SBR Founder Join Date: 8/10/2005
Ok, I told my friend about this site and he will email him, thanks
SBR Founder Join Date: 8/20/2005
LMAO. It always seems to be the mothers of the friends that are the sharpest motorbike bettors.How the hell they do it, I'll never know.
Last edited by Halifax; 08-21-05 at 01:14 PM.
SBR Founder Join Date: 8/10/2005
No reply to my friend's email, is Bill on holiday ?
Originally Posted by Clip Joint
SBR Founder Join Date: 8/20/2005
Dozer has been in Vegas. I'm sure he'll respond to your query soon.
SBR Founder Join Date: 7/21/2005
always good to know what books are not paying.
SBR Founder Join Date: 8/10/2005
Is globet claiming that that the combined wager amounts exceeded the posted wager limit. Have both the friend and the mother have long established accounts, where for the most part they have always bet different things. Or do they tend to make identical bets. Do the friend and the mother have the same address. Were the two bets made within minutes of each other. Or was there a significant time difference. How did Globet know that these two people were even related.
Once Bill gets back, i'm ure this will be sorted out, but these are likely questions we'd want answers too prior to contacting Globet, so as not to be caught offgaurd by anything they might say.
SBR Founder Join Date: 7/15/2005
Hello Mav,
Sorry for the delay. I do have quite a few emails from Sat and Sun to get up to speed on and will do so in the AM. Marc is helping with a lot of the Euro-player inquiries/disputes and will also be looking over this issue.
The account holder should email us directly, if he has not done so already. We will need his account ID as well as any email responses from Globet. As Marc mentioned, once we have gathered the details we will look to be sure that your friend did not violate GloBet's TOS and will contact the book on his behalf.
SBR Founder Join Date: 7/12/2005
Well, first of all hello to all of you. I'm the guy who has the problem with Globet. Basically my mother has it. I'll explain the problem with few words, all the details have been sent as an email to Bill.
I had a Globet account for about 3 years, and last April my mother opened an account there too. She opened the account since Globet doesn't have an "account per household rule".
On her personal details she used the same phone and adress since we are living on the same building.
For 4 months she could bet without a problem small amounts (50-60 euros) per bet. She didn't had any problem until the last days of July.
On 21st of July she bet 100 euros on West to be on podium at european odd of 105. West is motorbike racer for the 250cc race of Donington. On 24st of July she bet another 23 euros on him, the odd had been dropped to 27.3
The same day I bet on Roberts, the moto gp rider at odd 122 to be at podium. I tried to bet 60 euros, Globet accepted 20 euros.
Then my mother bet on him 3 times, 35 then 30 and then 40 euros at the same odd.
Both West and Roberts finished 2nd on their races, and now here's the problem.
Globet paid my bet for 20 euros at @122 = 1440 euros.
Globet paid for the 1st of West that my mother took, 100 euros at @105 = 10500 euros.
Globet is refusing to pay the 2nd bet for West, 23 euros at @27.3 = 627.9 euros, and the 3 bets for Roberts, 30+35+40 = 105 euros at @122 = 12810 euros.
When me and my mother tried to contact with them, their first response was from a new girl that they have hired, and showing really amateurism she replied that we couldn't bet more than once the same bet. Of course there isn't a rule like that at Globet, and they never mention it again. At some point the manager for Greek customers talked to me on the phone and he said to me that I tried to cheat, since my mother can't possibly knows about motorsports. I think that a reply like that is outrageous for a company like Globet. For testing reasons me and my mother placed a few bets after that, all of them have been accepted, Globet paid, but the winnings was about 1-2 euros. After that my mother sent them a note, and told them that we are gonna take this matter to IBAS ( http://www.ibas-uk.com ).
Their responce was this : They sent me and my mother an email telling us that since that we are threatened them, they are frozing our accounts for 2 years. So a bookmaker with the status of Globet, thinks that if one of the customers contacts IBAS, that's a threat to them. My mother have sent to Bill an email who contains the documents that she has sent to IBAS. If any of you want to know more details I'll be glad to tell you more. For now we can only wait the decision of IBAS who said that they will look at this matter in about 3-4 weeks, unless someone of you or Bill has some other idea ...
Last notice, all the unpaid bets have been accepted from Globet. Noone of them were cancelled before the races. All of them has been settled as winners. They simply refuse to pay.
Last edited by tap; 08-22-05 at 08:33 AM.
SBR Founder Join Date: 8/22/2005
And of course in the question if Globet would have give back the original stake, if all the bets were lost, you can answer it yourself ...
Last edited by tap; 08-22-05 at 09:26 AM.
SBR Founder Join Date: 8/22/2005
Globet is very strange. As was pointed out earlier, there is no rule against two members of the same household, each opening up their own account. They do however, have a rule that you can not use your account to place a wager for anyone else, including family members. My assumption, is that in this case they are claiming the mother placed the wager on behalf of her son, and therefore is in violation of the rules.
BUt the net effect of these rules is honest people, who are trying to play by the rules as written, can easily get labeled as cheaters. Lets take the case where you have two college roomates. One has an account at globet, and there is a big soccer match, and he gets down on his favorite team. The roomate sees the bet, and he wants in on the action. According to Globet rules, the roomate that has the account, can't place another wager for his friend. So his friend has to open his own account. Perfectly legal. He places his wager on the same team as his roomate. So both people are playing entirely by the rules, but there is a good chance now, Globet will accuse them of creating the second account, to circumvent the wagering limits.
On the surface, I would agree that it looks suspicious when someones mother is betting on motor sports, But globet, by thier rules seems to encourage individual family members to open thier own accounts. So they can't go and accuse people of cheating, because they opened those accounts. Hopefully Globet will pay before ths goes to IBAS, but certainly based off of what the players have said, I think Globet will lose if it does go to IBAS.
SBR Founder Join Date: 7/15/2005
marc, do you think that we should wait IBAS's decision, or we could so something else in the meantime ? Thanks in advance.
SBR Founder Join Date: 8/22/2005
I doubt it...you put too much faith into IBAS...if the bets came from the same computer, the rule you mentioned is going to play in Globet's favour...
SBR Founder Join Date: 8/22/2005
The bets have been placed from my computer, but their rule is this :
4.14 Clients must place their bets on their own account.
Any bet placed with the intent of defrauding Globet and/or
placed (without written permission) by/through any
person, friends or relatives in individual or group form and/or
under the advice of any other person,relative, will be cancelled and Globet
will keep the funds in the account for a minimum period of
two years. The directors, managers, members of the
federation, team members and subscribers are forbidden from
placing or accepting bets, directly or through a third
party, on the results of official matches organised by the
FIGC.
Globet says here about cancelling the bets. But those bets were not cancelled. A cancelled bet is a bet in which the bookmaker, gives you back they money that you have been placed on your account BEFORE THE START OF THE EVENT. Those bets were accepted, they were not cancelled, and they are settled as winners. They simply refuse to pay. And not only they are refusing to pay about Roberts (the rider that I have bet on my account), but they are refusing to pay one bet that only have been placed on my mother's account.
I think that we all agree that if Globet had a problem, they simply couldn't accept those bets, or they could have cancelled them, but before the start of the race.
What they did in this case is simply unacceptable for me as a punter, since if those bets were lost, Globet would keep the stakes, and now that they have won, they are keeping the winnings.
SBR Founder Join Date: 8/22/2005
Tap,
did you have your account limited before your "mother" opened another one?
SBR Founder Join Date: 8/22/2005
That is a good objective post Marc.
As rare as it may be for a mother and son to bet on Motocross together, it is not a reason for a book to withhold winnings. If a book is offering its services to multiple members of the same household they open themselves up to circumvented limits and should not be able to make decisions based on guesses of what motivated a player to make a wager.
Now, if the book had a rule about betting the same event this player would not have a case. If the book had sent an email asking them to no longer wager in this fashion the player would not have a case. From what I have read, the players deserve a warning and their funds.
Maybe management should get a link to this thread with your next email. Have they offered any explanations??
Last edited by Bill Dozer; 08-23-05 at 06:14 PM.
SBR Founder Join Date: 7/12/2005
I think Globet should pay because they waited the end of the race to void the bets...but then I don't believe for one second that this guy's mother made those bets.
What happens is that when players get limited, they use friends to open new accounts, in this case Globet's rules left an opening to household members, but I'm telling you IBAS is going to rule against the guy...and his mother...
SBR Founder Join Date: 8/22/2005
If IBAS ignores the Terms of Service pages, they are no better than the book.
SBR Founder Join Date: 7/12/2005
Was Goblet going to refund him if the bet had lost ? I dont think so...Why would goblet wait till after the race? and why when the account was open in July with the same address and phone number this was not confronted if its an issue?
SBR Founder Join Date: 8/16/2005
Even most of the big books that we're familiar with in North America, don't have the "no multiple accounts in the same household rule" listed in their written rules.
Olympic is a prime example ... to the best of my knowledge, they don't have this in their written rules, but I can't imagine that Wally would be too pleased if 8 of my sisters signed up from the same address that I live at, especially if they were taking bonuses and betting on the same stuff that I am.
I always thought that it was one of those unwritten rules that everyone just kind of understood.
SBR Founder Join Date: 8/10/2005
The account was not exactly limited. Last months, I think from November, my bets were in question if that's the right term, it was their decision (who usually they let me now in the next 10 minutes of the bets) if they would have been accepted or not. At this case, I tried to bet on Roberts 60 euros (before the bets of my mother's). They had accepted 20 euros.
The weird part of this case is that I have never bet on West. My mother bet on him 3 days ago for 100 euros, and then the same day of the race for 23 euros.
They paid the 1st bet, but not the 2nd ! After that me and mother could still bet there for a few days, I even lost a big 400 euros bet that have been accepted and it was for a motorbike event. My mother won 1.33 euros (if i remember correctly).
The account were not frozen (according to their rule). They only did that AFTER my mother told them that she's gonna contact IBAS.
I think that's very clear that Globet have broken their rule and not me or my mother. If the believe that we have defraud them why the pay me the 1500 euros and my mother the 10500 anyway. When the Greek manager talked with me on the phone, he tried to negotiate with me, he asked me that if he could convince his bosses to pay for the West bet, if we had the intention to stop this matter there.
For me it's a clear situation, Globet wouldn't have give the original stake back if the bets were lost and they don't wanna pay now that the bets are gone. So you can see who is not playing fair.
Someone from Globet didn't do his job right that day, as you can realize for your self, since we have won on the same day odds of @105 and @122 and now their bosses trying to rescue as much as they could.
SBR Founder Join Date: 8/22/2005
Who said they are better?
They do a great job, but their rulings are 5 to 1, probably 6 to 1, in favour of the books.
I believe Globet should pay the guy, as they made a mistake and waited the end of the race to cancel the bets...
The fact that they were bargaining and pay only one of the winning bets shows that they're wrong...howewer Halifax understood exactly what this is about.
I suggest to Globet to pay the bets...and boot them.
Tap,
it must be hard for you to remember when to say "my mother said" or "I said"...
so i suggest you to stop the crap "my mother told them"...your mother told them what you told her to say...
You should get paid, but this doesn't give you the right to think that other people are stupid.
SBR Founder Join Date: 8/22/2005
BTW Bill,
this is what Globet Terms of Service says:
Any bet placed with the intent of defrauding Globet and/or
placed (without written permission) by/through any
person, friends or relatives in individual or group form and/or
under the advice of any other person,relative, will be cancelled and Globet
will keep the funds in the account for a minimum period of
two years.
This is why IBAS would rule against them as long as the guy himself admitted the bets were placed from the same computer...
SBR Founder Join Date: 8/22/2005
All of the bets that my mother had placed from April until now have been placed from the 2 of mine pc's, she doesn't have her own pc.
Both of the account have been opened with the real details of me and my mother, real adress, real tel phonumber, it they are the same. If Globet had a problem with that they could have told us all those months that my mother was losing money.
This rule of Globet says about cancelling bets, a cancelled bets gives you a refund of your stake before the start of the event.
And something that personally don't think that has something to do in our case, but some of you might find it important. When Globet was refusing to accept some of my bets, or they accepted lower stake from what I would like to bet, I haven't tried to place them via mother. And that's because I mostly bet on european soccer and european basketball. My mother bets only on formula 1 that she knows more and from time to time motorbikes (btw you can contact with her at her cell phone if you want and ask her any question about formula 1 if it's hard to believe it)
I have never placed a bet on West.
And what that "under the advice of any other person" means to you ?
If I see on a site like bettingadvice for example, someone that suggest to bet on Barcelona to beat Real Madrit, that Globet at any time can cancel my bet if I'll follow his advice ?
Last edited by tap; 08-24-05 at 03:40 AM.
SBR Founder Join Date: 8/22/2005
Pier,
Good find. That rule actually somewhat applies to the situation. I would agree that the 3 wagers his mother took on Roberts, at the same odds that he took, could be justly voided. That rule is weak but applies enough to void mother and son hitting the same lines on the same day.
I am not sure what the argument is against the 2nd West bet.
This is tough because the player could claim that even if he is taking a shot, the book is taking one back by waiting for the outcome. My take largely depends on the situation. For example, a book can not claim a player past-posted by a few minutes after the bet wins or during grading. In regards to multiple account issues, these are often caught during grading or by accounting. Ideally the book would have the ability to catch these players before hand but that is rarely the case.I think Globet should pay because they waited the end of the race to void the bets..
That 2 years clause is awfully extreme. Regardless of the reason for the violation, the book has no claim to the player's funds. Pay him the unrelated amount and that should be the end of it.
Again, I am basing this upon what has been posted in this thread.
After reading the rule that Marc posted and then the rule from Pier0 it would appear that Globet is trying to say that players in the same household should/can have their own account but not bet in tandem. This is in line with what Oly and Pinnacle would say. Pinnacle, for example, has given the players two options. They can either keep their winnings and agree to close their account or they can accept that the wager is void and agree not to bet with a friend in the future.Even most of the big books that we're familiar with in North America, don't have the "no multiple accounts in the same household rule" listed in their written rules.
Olympic is a prime example ... to the best of my knowledge, they don't have this in their written rules, but I can't imagine that Wally would be too pleased if 8 of my sisters signed up from the same address that I live at, especially if they were taking bonuses and betting on the same stuff that I am.
I always thought that it was one of those unwritten rules that everyone just kind of understood.
Players shouldn't expect any slack when it comes to bonuses. But, if you call a book like Bodog in advance they will often agree to initially treat each person as separate players.
Last edited by Bill Dozer; 08-24-05 at 04:13 AM.
SBR Founder Join Date: 7/12/2005
By the way the bets have been placed many hours before the start of the races. Around 5-6 hours, ( few minutes before the start of the races the odds have been dropped a lot). It's very simple why we bet on Roberts on such high odds, we were watching the warm up at Eurosport, when the reporter of the channel said that rain is been expected during the race, and that Roberts was very good in wet conditions on the grand prix of China. I'm sure that many people who watched the warm up took the same bet, since Roberts set the best time, the morning before the race, no special knowledge of the sport was requiered.
Last edited by tap; 08-26-05 at 05:22 PM.
SBR Founder Join Date: 8/22/2005
I really don't think that I have to apologize to Globet, but think of this, I have 2 pcs, I can use 5 different isps. My brother lives in about 100 metres from my home, most of my friends and my coworkers are betting online. If my intention was to defraud Globet after not accepting all the Roberts bet don't you think that I could do something from the following :
1) I could use the other pc, with a different isp, so that Globet couldn't check the ip
2) I could go on my brother's house and I could tell him to open an account at Globet and to place this bet
3) I could call any of the friends/coworkers (I know at least 5 that they have a Globet account in person not to mention all the people I know from chat rooms)
Globet knows that they are wrong and they are trying to get away with it with the minimun lose, if the right was on their side, they shouldn't pay any bets, and they should have closed the account from the first day.
Noone of their rules have been broken from me or my mother, if that was the case, Globet wouldn't leave us to bet the next days. They shouldn't have accepted a 400 euros bet that I lost the next week.
They only frozen the accounts, when my mother told them that we are gonna take this matter to IBAS.
Last edited by tap; 08-24-05 at 07:13 AM.
SBR Founder Join Date: 8/22/2005
Since it happens to have a roomate, who like me, he places soccer bets, especially live betting on half times, I sent them an email and asked them, what will happen if my and my roomate take a bet on the half time of a soccer matchh, like Barcelona - Real, I told them that I want to be sure before opening an account and placing bets with them since I have seen on forums that punters have some compliants.
Here's their reply :
Dear Mr Smith,
Thank you for your interest in opening an account with Globet.
First of all, we do accept half time bets for the Premiership, the Spanish Premier League and the Italian one.
If you and your flatmate want to open an account, we will only accept one of you as a client, as we avoid receiving two account from one household.
As for the rumours you have read about in the Forums, I guarantee you that globet always pays the bets, unless cheated. We barely ever use our right to withhold the winnings and we only do in cases that a bet has been placed against our rules with the intention of fraud.
Kind Regards
Stellina
Customer Service Operator
Globet International Sports Betting Ltd
1 Putney High Street
London SW15 1SZ
United Kingdom
Mailto: stellina@globet.com
Tel: +44 20 8246 6053 Fax: 0044 20 8246 4808 Freephone (UK Only): 0800 358 0487
Tel: +44 20 8246 4801 Fax: 0044 20 8246 4808 Linea Verde: 800 125 635 Linea Verde Fax: 800 125 637
www.globet.com
SBR Founder Join Date: 8/24/2005
Stellina is the girl who at Globet's first reply told us that Globet won't pay since the bets have been placed more than once. Of course there isn't any rule like that, when the manager for Greek punters talked to me on the phone, he said that the girl is new at Globet and she doesn't know much about the rules.
SBR Founder Join Date: 8/22/2005
When I looked through the rules, i couldn't find anything about not allowing more than 1 account at the same household. It could well be an oversight on thier part, as virtually every other bookmaker has such a policy. But I don't think they have that rule written anywhere.
SBR Founder Join Date: 7/15/2005
Yes, there isn't a rule like that, I know a person from chat rooms , who knows few people at Globet, and I asked him to contact them, in order to tell him why they don't want to pay, he sent me the next msg :
My friend, The problem is that according with Globet you have tried to be clever . Now I explain to you why. You had an account with low limit of risk because you're a good punter() and you have not respected their article that it prohibits to use another account in order to make your bets. They have realized that you used the same computer with the same IP also if the account was registered to your mother. The problem is if you agree the regulations of a company you must follow it until the end. Articles 3,6 and 3,7 of the regulations speak clear and, according to their way to think, you do not have respect them! They have preferred to follow one softer line paying to you at least a bet with the higher odd. I hope to have been enough clear in the explanation of the facts.
The rules that they said to my friend are the following (by the way Globet officially never mentioned me or my mother that they dont pay according to those rules) :
3.6 Globet reserves the right to refuse to open an account without providing any explanation. Any deposit will be refunded once actually received.
3.7 Globet reserves the right to close an account at any time and without providing any explanation. Any balance on the account will be returned to the client minus transfer costs. If a client again opens an account (without written authorization by Globet) under his/her or with another name, Globet reserves the right to reclose the account and keep the funds for a minimum period of two years.
Of course noone of the 2 rules has nothing to do in our case, they could not let my mother to open her account according to rule 3.6, but they didn't
Rule 3.7 talks about opening an account for clients that their original account have been closed. It's not our case either.
Globet simply can't find any rule that we have broken.
SBR Founder Join Date: 8/22/2005
I agree, those two rules do not apply to your situation.
SBR Founder Join Date: 8/9/2005
According to Globet, they don't want to pay about the Roberts bet since those have been placed after my friend tap, tried to bet on his account. There's some kind of logic to it, even if it's obvious that noone of the rules have been broken.
But to pay the 1st bet on West and not the 2nd, bets that are for the same event on the same account ... I thnk that this is the first time in the betting history that a bookmaker acts so lame.
Globet has done several mistakes on this case. I mean if they thought that there's a fraud in this case, why on earth they pay some bets anyway, and why they let them bet for days after that ?
SBR Founder Join Date: 8/20/2005
I sent them yesterday night an email asking in which their rule is mentioned about the 1 account per household. They haven't replied yet
SBR Founder Join Date: 8/24/2005
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