[Bill Dozer]

Almost all new books have ties with already established, or previously failed sportsbooks. Unfortunately, their history is usually not something the book wants us to know about. Bet4Aces is the newest scam site existing only to take player deposits. I'd bet the farm this isn't their last site either. In fact, I would say they even have their next url all picked out.

We are getting a lot of emails like the one below, including one from a player being stiffed $120000.


11/19/2005 2:34:00 PM
SCAM ALERT: Bet4Aces is the new website for scambook, BetGateway (SBR rating F-). BetGateway has been off-line for two days and active players are now being asked to log in at Bet4Aces and use Bet4Aces’ Neteller merchant account. This is the latest scam site from former VIPBetZone (SBR rating F-) owership.


hello

few month ago i got the 50$ free from betgateway...
the site was down in the last weeks
and as i read at your site they moved to bet4aces to continue their scam under new name...
i try to log in to the account and it was possible ...i saw my balance of 585$ i spoke in the live chat with someone called Edward and i ask to cashout my money...
he asked for my NETeller detils and told me the money will be send in the next days...
i wait this days and no money come..i spoke with him again and he promise the money will be send in the next 24-48 hours...
of course no money come but this time my account was closed...
i spoke with him again in chat but this time he say " i didnt spoke with you ever and you have no account with us"
after i told him that i know about betgateway he say no and close to chat with no chance to speak with him again...
here is the last chat with him:


Please wait for a site operator to respond.
You are now chatting with 'Edward'
Edward: How may I help you?
you: hello...i made cashout request few days ago
Edward: what's your account number?
you: *******
Edward: Sr I don't have that account registered with us
Edward: Are you sure that's the correct number?
you: sure..i spoke with you few days ago you ask me for my neteller # and email and you said the money will be send in monday
Edward: It's not registered in our system
you: so you delete my account...you told me i have 585$ and you ask me how much i want to cashout i said 585$
Edward: How did you talk to?
Edward: who?
you: with you...
you: you ask me to my neteller # and email
Edward: me???
you: yesterday we spoke again and you told me the money will be send in 24-48 hours
Edward: Sir your account is not registered in our system
you: you delete my account...now listen what i have to say
Edward: what is your name?
you: ************..we spoke few days ago and you ask for my NETeller details
Edward: Under which name is the account registered?
you: i know you are the same site as betgateway and you are trying to delete people accounts
you: you delete my account and now you say no account with us? what a poor trick..send me the 585$ to the neteller details i gave you
Edward: Sr. I don't know no Betgateway
Edward: I don't know who you talked to, about a pay out
you: ok ..i want my money ..my username *******...my name **************
Edward: I don;t have that account registered in our system
Edward: I don't have any matches of an account with us with that info
you: or i will report about you..its not problem to trace your ip number..we know you are the same as betgateway
you: dont try this poor shit on me...you have 24 hours to send me my money or you will get trouble
Edward: sir with all the respect I don't know what you are talking about, I'm just an employee here
you: sure..and we didnt talked few days ago and yesterday right? it was my dream...
Edward: I was on vacation sir
Edward: i got in Today
Chat session has been terminated by the site operator.

[marc]

Here is the question I have. WHy does Neteller make it so easy for these scam shops to open up, and steal people's money. WHat i find so frustrating is that if Neteller just made the smallest bit of effort, they could reduce the number of scam's by 50% or more. Is neteller just sticking their head in sand and pretending that they don't know that bets4aces is a total scam. One would think just from a business perspective taht it would be in Neteller's interest to put in just a little bit of effort, to protect players from scammers like this. But they just don't

[tacomax]

I take your point, marc, but you're blaming the wrong people here. Neteller provide a medium of exchange for $s, nothing else. Bets4aces are "licensed and legalized by the Government of Costa Rica" - I think it should be the Government of Costa Rica that should be acting and preventing any Tom, Dick and Tej from offering wagering services.

[picantel]

I am curious what would happen if you sued a sportsbook in the states and of course they did not show up because they could care less. You get a default judgment and then serve a garnishment order on netteller and wipe all the funds out of their netteller account.

[mad]

Gotta agree with marc here Taco, not that your point is bad but...

When you sign up with Neteller you (you and i) gotta jump through all kinds of hoops just to deposit MY f'in money with them. HELLO, i know who i am and where my money is and/or comes from. However i have to legitimise myself to them so they can amass a shit load of money (some mine, some yours) - no interest. Now granted illegal activity and all that.

However, i am doing nothing wrong by depositing my money. But on the other side we have these books refuse to pay, cos their Neteller has run dry and/or they steal money and run away with it. How about some checks and procedures for these scumbags. Nope i think not, they make a commission from them so they will let it slide. And screw you and me.

[magnavox]

I've heard Neteller does help people who have been ripped off by scam operators. Apparently they may give you a refund up to the amount of your stolen deposit.

[raiders72001]

What does ebay do if a person scams you? You make payment on an item but never receive it.

[marc]

Raiders,

If you have a problem with an Ebay merchant, you can give them a bad rating, and post your complaint, so next time they try to sell something, other potential buyers can see your warning. And if they truly were scam artists, you can get them removed from ebay.

To use WU, as an example. If someone scams me into sending them money thru WU. And after sending the funds I realized that I was scammed. WU won't reimburse me. But they will take my complaint seriously. And they may well blacklist that person from being able to receive any more funds.

There is a long list of known scam operations out there. Bets4aces is one of them. We all know it. So why does Neteller choose to do business with them. All it takes for Neteller to close a players account is to have two people log onto thier accounts from the same computer, and Neteller will shut both accounts down. Even if it was just you and a friend checking your balances and doing nothing else. MEanwhile, some theif can open a merchant account, cheat every player that walks thru the door, and Neteller won't do a thing so long as they get their 3.9% fee.

[magnavox]

With Ebay you can ask them to reimburse you from the scammer's PayPal account.

[pags11]

thanks for the heads up Bill...

[jumper]

i just called and asked for mauricio gomez,said i was his friend,and girl says ok,let me get him.then some guy picks up and asks my name,then asks how i know mauricio.when i tell him they still owe me from vipbetzone im told no mauricio here.they then deny any relationship with above mentioned books.great work by sbr uncovering ownership behing this deposit joint.

[dion123]

i got email from them..they offer 50$ for christmas...
so i made little chat with them:



Please wait for a site operator to respond.
You are now chatting with 'Laura'
Laura: Hello how may i help you?
you: hello i heard you offer 50$ free
Laura: We are offering 25% bonus when you sign up on an account with us
Laura: are you intrested?
you: i recived email says: Christmas Balance 50$
Laura: Yes, As a Christmas bonus we are offering a $50 match play if you open an account whit just $50
you: why the site rating F- ?
Laura: that might be a confusion
Laura: We are a brand new company
Laura: We haven't had any problems with our customers
you: what about BetGateway?
Laura: I'm sorry?
Laura: What is betgateway?
you: ask mister mauricio gomez
Laura: i'm sorry but i don't know who is that person
you: can you tell me how i was able to log in to my account with my login details from betgateway?
Laura: Is there something I can help you with regarding our company?
Laura: With all the respect, I don't know what are you talking about
you: sure ...thats why you send me the 50$ promotion to the same email i registerd in betgateway
Laura: Once again, I don't know what is betgateway
you: so why i recived the promotion mail to my email?
Laura: this is bet4aces and we are a brand new company, you might be confused
you: why i recived the promotion mail to my email if i have no account with you?
Laura: I don't have an answer for that question, but anyway if you have any questions regarding our company I'll be more than happy to help you, but I have other clients online
Laura: Is there anything else i can help you with?
you: can you check if you have account at this email? dion123@safe-mail.net
Laura: unfortunately no, emails are only access by the marketing department, I'm Line manager
you: so i have no account with you..but you have my email...how come?
Laura: We only have access to account information regarding wagering
you: From: "Customer Service" <csd@bet4aces.com >
you: To: <dion123@safe-mail.net >
Laura: It's my knowledege that many companies send random information to random clients regarding applications in other companies
Laura: probably the company that provided our marketing department a list of clients had you on list
you: ok..im going to call NETeller and tell them few things about your "new" company
Laura: Have a nice evening, thank you for your time and your feedback

[raiders72001]

I like the way ebay does it as Marc just desribed. I don't think that Neteller can do this because there's no sale and transfer of goods. It's just a medium to transfer money.

Also because many of Neteller's transactions deal with gambling it's dangerous for them to get involved in these types of disputes.

[bigboydan]

Originally Posted by raiders72001

What does ebay do if a person scams you? You make payment on an item but never receive it.

that depends on your transaction methods.

if you use paypal, you can buy insurance that protects you in most cases.

[bigboydan]

Originally Posted by raiders72001

Neteller's transactions deal with gambling it's dangerous for them to get involved in these types of disputes.

this goes back a ways and, i don't even know if the guy still works for neteller or not. but, theres a gentelmen that worked there name David Kahane. he always seemed to help out with disputes. i remeber dealing with him a while back when i was trying to get the book that stiffed me neteller privileges revoke. but when i reformated my computer, i lost touch with him.

[Aces]

Netteller should suspend any books privilages when enough complaints are filed against that shop. In addition there should be some type of time limit set up to make sure a book is credibale prior to giving them access to Netteller.

Bill why dont you start DOZERCASH and we can all deposit through your company then if we get screwed we'll have a method to protect ourselfs. Think about it DOZERCASH could become the only way to deposit in the future. If your book drops below a C no more DOZERCASH.

[pags11]

Aces, I completely agree aces, but cutting off a books ability to use neteller, the chances greatly decrease of them scamming other customers...

[why]

good heads up for players, welll done.

[bigboydan]

03.15.2006 (03:33 PM CST)
Bet4Aces(SBR rating F-) settling debts owed to BetGateway(SBR rating F-) account holders. Players stiffed by BetGateway should write to Assistance@SportsbookReview.com immediately. SBR has confirmed that Bet4Aces has sent over $80,000 to owed players.

[JoshW]

Amazing. Payments like this almost never happen.

[applepicks]

Is Bill Dozer at Bet4aces today? Just something I heard is all.

[Bill Dozer]

No AP. Today's conversations were by phone.

[isetcap]

60K of that 80K went to one player, right? I think if Bet4Aces wants to go legit they should consider working with SBR to be the first sportsbook that is completely transparent. Actually I think that any sportsbook in the ratings cellar with genuine designs on improving should consider joining such a program.

[applepicks]

Originally Posted by Bill Dozer

No AP. Today's conversations were by phone.

I see, as I was told by a employee there today that you would be by and taking pics and going over finacials. I see now that is not the case. Any updates on this book being now totally seperate Betgateway?

[Bill Dozer]

It's clear that this is not the typical VBZ scam but I would not say they are a new and separate operation. They took over BetGateway and changed the name. Back-end and IP address remained the same and accounts were brought over by Henry who was a Mgr at Gateway. Bet4Aces would label this an acquisition of assets only, which few would agree with.

I think they do realize that they are liable and are benefiting from a company that was built on player deposits... even if Gateway was inevitably going to close. Otherwise, this wouldn't be any different than an ESB who says they are under new ownership every 6 months.

I do think Gateway players will see their money and Bet4Aces is on the right track. They have a chance to break off ties with this group and show they aren't a reincarnation of a scam as I originally concluded.

Office photos coming tonight...

[applepicks]

Thanks for the response Bill. I think they are on the right track and only time will tell. Look forward to the photos as well.

[jm765]

Wow reading this makes me sick. When i spoke with Charlie he did say about about betgateway today. Somehow these books are connected.

[JC]

This thread makes me want to throw up.

I guess TOW never heard about any of this before they promoted them.

[Bill Dozer]

Originally Posted by JC

This thread makes me want to throw up.

I guess TOW never heard about any of this before they promoted them.

He doesn't care. ActionBets has been in delinquent status for weeks, nothing about that. But, he has had time to profile another rookie in a new article.

[JC]

Originally Posted by Bill Dozer

He doesn't care. ActionBets has been in delinquent status for weeks, nothing about that. But, he has had time to profile another rookie in a new article.

I see, SexyWagers.com. He rated them a 3 back on May 21. He just wrote an article about them. What will the rating be by football? What will the rating be August 1? Let's sit back and watch the show.

[Doug]

Originally Posted by Bill Dozer

He doesn't care. ActionBets has been in delinquent status for weeks, nothing about that. But, he has had time to profile another rookie in a new article.

I bust on Bert enough. He wrote an article about them existing, still rates them as a 3, I don't see a problem with that. His rookie project is over with, Roberto will only take books with 2+ years in existance from now on, if he holds to earlier statements.

Unfair, IMO ! Dude ain't promoting them...as of now.

[Bill Dozer]

Originally Posted by Doug

I bust on Bert enough. He wrote an article about them existing, still rates them as a 3, I don't see a problem with that. His rookie project is over with, Roberto will only take books with 2+ years in existance from now on, if he holds to earlier statements.

Unfair, IMO ! Dude ain't promoting them...as of now.

Don't read too much into that post Doug. I simply noted what was on the site, because it shows what is not on the site... Updates or acknowledgements of sponsor no-pays.

BTW, This is a fluff promotinal piece. If you notice how sportsbooks market, you smell it mile away. Most of what I see from TOW comes to me by emailed press release as did this. They are SEO focused or part of an impending campaign. Rate them 10 or -5, banner or no banner, this is promoting.

[Doug]

Originally Posted by Bill Dozer

Don't read too much into that post Doug. I simply noted what was on the site, because it shows what is not on the site... Updates or acknowledgements of sponsor no-pays.

BTW, This is a fluff promotinal piece. If you notice how sportsbooks market, you smell it mile away. Most of what I see from TOW comes to me by emailed press release as did this. They are SEO focused or part of an impending campaign. Rate them 10 or -5, banner or no banner, this is promoting.

SEO= Search Engine Optimized ?

Impending campaign ? Roberto couldn't possibly take advertising from Sexywagers ! If that's what you imply

That would be as bad as Shrink taking BOS ?

Bert can't possibly do that, but weird shit happens. Bert even says new books almost must lose money in first year.

Stranger by the moment.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EB9ES...0are%20strange

[jumper]

interesting stuff,if i knew bet4aces was anyhow connected with mauricio gomez i would have taken pleasure in doing all i could to ruin their operation.recently sbr offered to facilitate legal procedings against bos in antigua if there was a legit issue.i would like to volunteer,along with my friend who has a balance at bet4aces,to work the legal system in costa rica if there is any remedy there.we have documentation showing legit balance from vip bet zone and bet4aces.if gomez can be connected to multiple scam books it seems reasonable to me that he could go down for some crime on the costa rican legal system.sbr uncovers these connections a little late,but better later than never,i.e.change a bet and betwgn.lets at least make sure that these guys dont run another book that will ultimately fail.also-this is the exact time of year that vipbetzone closed 2 years ago

[jumper]

i added to the thread @ major wager regarding the moving van @ bet4aces,i thought that was interesting local information.the responses are reinforcement why i switched to sbr as the forum of choice.immediate,know it all negativity and moderator attacks based on knowledge that i dont use their site anymore.although i dont have a balance at bet4shit i would like to see the situation dealt with harshly by all forums.i haven,t asked major for help in over 2 years but truly appreciate the fact that player assistance can always be found at this site,regardless of how much one contributes to the forum