[jjgold]

Another one of these guys that reads a few books and thinks he is big time trading stocks daily. It takes years and years of studying and preparing before you can even think of getting into that game and a bankroll of no less than $200,000 and of course the best trading software money can buy.

Johnny you can't use E-Trade to day trade, lol. I bet your losing and 1/8 to a 1/4 of a point on every trade and the boys on the floor are gobbling you up.


You guys are funny and yes I bet you tell everyone you day trade like a big man. Well tell them you have lost a small fortune chasing your first loss.

Boys day trading is a serious game and only very few have ever succeeded with it, stay away or put your money in blue chips for 20 years and forget about it. Please do not get caught up in the bull run we are in and think you can day trade and become rich becaue if you do I know where to find you and SBR John. You might ask where? Well right at a bank trying to get second mortagages, bank loans or claim bankruptcy because you went broke.

I should be charging for all my expert advice on this board.

[BatemanPatrickl]

Do you charge your housemates in the facility?

[SBR_John]

I wouldnt say Im a day trader now JJ. And I certainly would not recommend others trade. I do like certain stocks and trades at times. Im heavy on AAPL even though its extended at these levels. Ive hedged by selling calls against them.

Not any different than capping sports.

[jjgold]

Difference between sports and stocks is bankroll

To get into stock trading you need at least $50,000 and sports you need $50.

[pico]

Originally Posted by jjgold

Difference between sports and stocks is bankroll

To get into stock trading you need at least $50,000 and sports you need $50.

if you do points betting (might not be the right term, but it is where you bet 2 pounds for every point for the cricket match above or below a certain number for example. even if you bet 2 pounds per point, a collaspe could cost you thousands) in sports, i think it is very similar to stock trading. never done it, and i think you need a pretty big bank roll to find a book that let you do points betting. simple binary bets and parlays are not that different from casinos games.

now with matchbook and tradesports, the platform is pretty similar to trading stocks. so if you're good at tradesports, you have a good chance making it in stocks.

[SBR_John]

Its all just educated guesses. Traders look at charts and cappers look at stats. Sometimes the charts and stats prove out and sometimes its the ole chocolate covered banana time.

[JC]

John,

Here's a test for you. Which has more risk?

A) Selling puts naked.

B) Buying the stock and selling calls against it. (Like you said you did above)

You can tell the Coach is old school. He's like me, still speaks in 1/8's and 1/4's.

[pico]

Originally Posted by JC

John,

Here's a test for you. Which has more risk?

A) Selling puts naked.

B) Buying the stock and selling calls against it. (Like you said you did above)

You can tell the Coach is old school. He's like me, still speaks in 1/8's and 1/4's.

a moron who read the first chapter of the option 101 can answer this question. this is not really related to day trading.

[MonkeyF0cker]

Originally Posted by jjgold

Difference between sports and stocks is bankroll

To get into stock trading you need at least $50,000 and sports you need $50.

Yeah no one here could possibly have $50k+ to trade. Please.

[MonkeyF0cker]

Originally Posted by JC

You can tell the Coach is old school. He's like me, still speaks in 1/8's and 1/4's.

Or quite possibly an indication of a lack of understanding about the current markets.

[pico]

Originally Posted by MonkeyF0cker

Or quite possibly an indication of a lack of understanding about the current markets.

jj still use locals. i woundn't be suprised if his broker still use ticker tape for quotes

[MonkeyF0cker]

JJ, I would love to know what your credentials are that make you such an expert on this topic. You should post them since you are calling out SBR John.

[JC]

Originally Posted by picoman

a moron who read the first chapter of the option 101 can answer this question. this is not really related to day trading.

Maybe so, but I was asking John since he brought it up.

And after he answers I will tell a funny anecdote about it.

But thanks for your comments.

[jjgold]

selling calls and puts naked are the riskest thing you can do.

I have traded the following

1. Spread Betting in the UK at finspreads.com and spreadex.com

2. Traded the SP on the globex system

3. Futures trading on nymex crude, currencies and the treasure bills .

4. Regular currency trading at firms

5. Option trader mainly buying callas and selling calls without protection

6. Leap contracts

7. Regular Stocks


I will run cirlcles around 95% here about financial trading, SBR has no clue so I called him out.

I cannot run cirlces around JC because he was on the floor with The Chicago Board of Trade

[jjgold]

I have seen guys like SBR John walk into brokerages firms with a wad of cash wrapped in an elastic band and tell the advisor I want to trade stocks .

It does not work that way

[compaqDikk]

not worth trading, paying 30% of your wins.

well at least johnny can write off 3k for the next 120 years and carry it over to his grandkids

SBRJohn shorted google at 90 (averaged down at $170), bought enron at $93 3/8 (averaged down at 5 7/8). I have the trade confirmations to prove it and will host it on my coffee break

[BatemanPatrickl]

Originally Posted by compaqDikk

not worth trading, paying 30% of your wins.

well at least johnny can write off 3k for the next 120 years and carry it over to his grandkids

SBRJohn shorted google at 90 (averaged down at $170), bought enron at $93 3/8 (averaged down at 5 7/8). I have the trade confirmations to prove it and will host it on my coffee break

I bought Worldcom and Tyco AFTER the scandals.

[compaqDikk]

One of my boys from ScottyTrade just got a call from Johnny and thought this thing actually traded on the OTCBB and wanted to pick up 2k at the market

[jjgold]

Originally Posted by compaqDikk

One of my boys from ScottyTrade just got a call from Johnny and thought this thing actually traded on the OTCBB and wanted to pick up 2k at the market

lol what a clown, I proved my point. The guy does not have a clue just an action monger.

[BatemanPatrickl]

Originally Posted by jjgold

lol what a clown, I proved my point. The guy does not have a clue just an action monger.

That's hot.

[pico]

Originally Posted by jjgold

I have seen guys like SBR John walk into brokerages firms with a wad of cash wrapped in an elastic band and tell the advisor I want to trade stocks .

It does not work that way

i love people like that. reminds me of that scene in "scareface" where they bring bagful of cash to the bank

[SBR_John]

Originally Posted by JC

John,

Here's a test for you. Which has more risk?

A) Selling puts naked.

B) Buying the stock and selling calls against it. (Like you said you did above)

You can tell the Coach is old school. He's like me, still speaks in 1/8's and 1/4's.

Well since its obviously A, I'll take B.

I sell naked Puts if I want to take the stock and I sell more calls than I have stock as well sometimes. I wont sell more Puts than the position I hope to buy.

Mainly I like dividend stocks like good ole Mo that I collect the rather nice dividend and the option amount. Sell them deep in the money with a lot of time so the stock isnt called away every quater. Each to his own but thats my play.

[SBR_John]

Originally Posted by compaqDikk

not worth trading, paying 30% of your wins.

well at least johnny can write off 3k for the next 120 years and carry it over to his grandkids

SBRJohn shorted google at 90 (averaged down at $170), bought enron at $93 3/8 (averaged down at 5 7/8). I have the trade confirmations to prove it and will host it on my coffee break

Hmm I shorted Micron at 60 and 70 and covered at 110. A year later it was 14 . But I did buy Enron at 7 and sold it at 2...fvckers. You know you win some and lose some. I also bot Ebay at 42 and sold it at 49...4 splits later.

[JC]

Originally Posted by SBR_John

Well since its obviously A, I'll take B.

The correct answer is it is the exact same thing. Both have the same exact risk profile.

Buying stock and selling calls 1 to 1 is a synthetic short put.

The funny thing is after the '87 crash there were major brokerage firms putting out memo's that read, "Don't advocate risky positions anymore such as naked put selling. Stick to conservative strategies like covered writes. (Long stock/Short calls one to one.)" sheesh

I can't make this stuff up.

[pico]

Originally Posted by JC

The correct answer is it is the exact same thing. Both have the same exact risk profile.

Buying stock and selling calls 1 to 1 is a synthetic short put.

The funny thing is after the '87 crash there were major brokerage firms putting out memo's that read, "Don't advocate risky positions anymore such as naked put selling. Stick to conservative strategies like covered writes. (Long stock/Short calls one to one.)" sheesh

I can't make this stuff up.

how is that different from covered calls?

[BrentCrude]

Originally Posted by jjgold

Another one of these guys that reads a few books and thinks he is big time trading stocks daily. It takes years and years of studying and preparing before you can even think of getting into that game and a bankroll of no less than $200,000 and of course the best trading software money can buy.

Johnny you can't use E-Trade to day trade, lol. I bet your losing and 1/8 to a 1/4 of a point on every trade and the boys on the floor are gobbling you up.


You guys are funny and yes I bet you tell everyone you day trade like a big man. Well tell them you have lost a small fortune chasing your first loss.

Boys day trading is a serious game and only very few have ever succeeded with it, stay away or put your money in blue chips for 20 years and forget about it. Please do not get caught up in the bull run we are in and think you can day trade and become rich becaue if you do I know where to find you and SBR John. You might ask where? Well right at a bank trying to get second mortagages, bank loans or claim bankruptcy because you went broke.

I should be charging for all my expert advice on this board.

The whole stock market is rigged and it's like playing with fire.The more I got into it and met people who were the bagholders who were on the losing end of shorting,penny stocks,high flyers etc the more I could see it was rigged.Take your Jim Kramer's of the world and they publicly admit that they manipulated and touted stocks breaking SEC rules and his answer was,I'll take their subpoenas and wipe my butt with them.The stock market is a good ol'boys club and eventually something like sub prime mortgage defaults by the bunches and hedge funds going under will crash the market.

We have a no faith government,shrunken worthless dollar,not free market capitalism economics but Keynesian socialist economics so if you study till your heart's content you could never figure a sure fire method of beating the market.We had savings and loans disasters and the tax payer bailed them out,we have bankruptcies,government grants,government loans,sweetheart deals,a makework medical industry paid for with tax payer dollars,,,,the whole system sucks!

Yet if you get lucky and have some inside source to help you make a fortune that you know is a bit bogus,go for it and all the more power to you if you make some$$$$$$$$$$

[Ganchrow]

Originally Posted by picoman

how is that different from covered calls?

That's exactly what JC is talking about ... a covered call (which, just as he points out, is functionally equivalent to shorting a put + lending money).

[pico]

Originally Posted by Ganchrow

That's exactly what JC is talking about ... a covered call (which, just as he points out, is functionally equivalent to shorting a put + lending money).

covered call is not risky at all. you're only making the risk premium when you do a covered call.

[Ganchrow]

Originally Posted by picoman

covered call is not risky at all. you're only making the risk premium when you do a covered call.

The point is that a covered call has precisely the same risk profile as a short put.

So if you qualitatively judge a covered call to be "not risky" then you should feel exactly the same way about writing a naked put option (and lending money).

[pico]

Originally Posted by Ganchrow

The point is that a covered call has precisely the same risk profile as a short put.

So if you qualitatively judge a covered call to be "not risky" then you should feel exactly the same way about writing a naked put option (and lending money).

for a naked put option you're exposed to the risk when the stock goes down...all of it. for a covered call, it doesn't matter what the stock price is going to be. not following where all the risk are coming from when you do a covered call.

[JC]

Originally Posted by picoman

how is that different from covered calls?

A covered call is another term for covered write and it has the same risk profile is selling a naked put.

[JC]

Originally Posted by picoman

for a naked put option you're exposed to the risk when the stock goes down...all of it. for a covered call, it doesn't matter what the stock price is going to be. not following where all the risk are coming from when you do a covered call.

You don't think there is any downside when you do a covered call if the stock goes down?

I guess you haven't read Options 101.

On paper, buy 100 shares of stock and sell 1 call against it. Do the same thing with a short put of the same strike and duration. Use real prices. Then tell me what your profit/loss is at each price for each play. It should be identical, save for some bid-ask slippage and a few pennies of interest value.

[Ganchrow]

Originally Posted by picoman

for a naked put option you're exposed to the risk when the stock goes down...all of it. for a covered call, it doesn't matter what the stock price is going to be. not following where all the risk are coming from when you do a covered call.

With a naked put you have limited up side (equal to the premium received on the put) and downside limited to the price of the stock minus the put premium received.

With a covered call, your upside is limited (if the stock price goes to infinity, you make money on the long stock and call premium, but lose money on the short call), and your downside is limited on;y by the approximate value of the stock (if the stock price goes to zero you receive the call premium but lose the value of the long stock).

The two are identical from a risk standpoint.

[ShamsWoof10]

I agree that trading the market is for very few and it's hard as hell... I have never tried puts or calls on a stock I usually play unleaded and natty... I have been watching apple for quite a while and tried to short today and didn't make sh*t.. I made 4 cents so I am not trying this again... If you guys can do this effectively then hats off to you... F*CK THIS!!!

This JC guy seems to be very sharp.. He and a few others can probably do this effectively... I still like apple short in the near term because the market was way up and it was still down... That is a bad sign for them SHORT TERM... I'm still staying away it's not for me....

[SBR_John]

Well the stock can go to zero, so if you are short the Put you lose the same as you would if you owned the stock.

However, covered call writing does not expire and settle like a short Put does. So the covered write is slightly safer overall. You can continue to write more calls in the covered write scenario. You can't with a short put.