[tacomax]

OK, I wasn't a forumite during the Betpanam fiasco but I regularly see snippets posted on forums. Can anyone give a potted history of what caused a supposed good book to turn into a stiff? Also, what lessons can players, other sportsbooks and even the likes of SBR learn from this failure (aside from the obvious "stick to Pinny")?

[jay88]

Bill and Roberto are the ones that know the entire story.

[JoshW]

Severly underfunded book is made to look like an extremely strong book. That impression was built on the idea that they had good backing. Shrink and Krackman (the both formerly of the RX) visited and were shown a good time before PanAm opened. Many forums took them on as advertisers (RX, MW, and OGD among maybe others). I don't remember what rating SBR gave them but I think it was fairly high given how weak PanAm turned out to be.

Seems no matter who is blamed more or less, ownership of the book decided not to put any more money into it, and thus there was no money to pay players as postup was used for operating the book.

I personally thought the book was safe, I didn't happen to be playing in it at the time, but they had a couple of people in management from other books who were thought highly of, and they were doing transfers with books like Olympic. I think it made all the sites more careful about endorsing new books as the next coming.

[raiders72001]

The RX really pumped this book up. They were calling it a top 10 book and said that there was a $500,000 bond in place to secure player's funds. It was a shady ordeal as Panamanian officials were involved.

SBR and TOW had them rated high. OGD was the only site that got all their players paid as they had a protection program at that time where PanAM balances were held in escrow at OGD.

[bigboydan]

i was moderating for peep when all this betpanam stuff went down. and, raiders is right. peep did get everyone paid that was signed up thru his site and used the insurance program he had setup.

[TOW]

Raiders,

TOW went online 4 months after Betpanam tanked. However I did collect $ 235K on behalf of 45 players affected by the fiasco. Took about a year....

[raiders72001]

And I'll add that you were the only one trying to help and did recover a lot of funds.

[pags11]

haven't read too much good about these guys either...

[SBR_John]

The lesson?

lesson 1 - THIS IS THE MOST IMPORTANT
No matter what the story is or how much money they have, who is backing them, ect; 1st year books are extremely risky.

lesson 2
New books dealing reduced juice are 0 - 4, thats your basic 0% batting average for you non-math majors, to make it to the 2nd year.

lesson 3
This one saved some lucky SBR followers. We downgraded betpanam when they announced their payout dept would be closed for the Christmas holidays. Oddly enough they could receive deposits just fine. A few weeks later they were in slow pay mode. So lesson 3 is if a book closes payouts for any reason while still taking deposits get the fvck out!

[slash]

Originally Posted by SBR_John

The lesson?
lesson 3
This one saved some lucky SBR followers. We downgraded betpanam when they announced their payout dept would be closed for the Christmas holidays. Oddly enough they could receive deposits just fine. A few weeks later they were in slow pay mode. So lesson 3 is if a book closes payouts for any reason while still taking deposits get the fvck out!

What about a book like WWTS taking NETeller deposits 24/7 but not paying out on weekends?? (yes, I think WWTS is waaaaaay overrated).

[jay88]

It is mostly for Accounting reasons. Let's say your neteller funds get a bit low during the weekend, there is no way you can send a wire to fund them and continue with the payouts. Some books do it others don't, but that is the main reason.

[JoshW]

Originally Posted by jay88

It is mostly for Accounting reasons. Let's say your neteller funds get a bit low during the weekend, there is no way you can send a wire to fund them and continue with the payouts. Some books do it others don't, but that is the main reason.

Jay, I think a book would be wise to keep excess in Neteller. If you are well funded it shouldn't be that big an issue. Granted there are a number of C rated books that have never had a no pay issue that have the weekend or otherwise Neteller problem you mention. They would keep more players if they avoided these even slight dealys and might even getting a ratings increase by offering better customer service.

[jay88]

I agree with you, that is the main reason we have 7 days a week payouts.
I was just explaining what is the main reason why certain sportsbooks don't have 7 days a week payouts.

[bigboydan]

Originally Posted by TOW

Raiders,

TOW went online 4 months after Betpanam tanked. However I did collect $ 235K on behalf of 45 players affected by the fiasco. Took about a year....

according to "your" calculations roberto. how many more people are owed money ?

[Doug]

Originally Posted by bigboydan

according to "your" calculations roberto. how many more people are owed money ?

At least one, ME !

[bigboydan]

doug, how much are you still owed out of this mess ?

[Doug]

[quote=SBR_John]The lesson?



lesson 2
New books dealing reduced juice are 0 - 4, thats your basic 0% batting average for you non-math majors, to make it to the 2nd year.

That sounds bad for Trojan, then !

What are the four ?

Pan-am and ???

Isn't Mansion close to 2nd year ?

0-4 in what amount of time ?

[Doug]

Originally Posted by bigboydan

doug, how much are you still owed out of this mess ?

$1,000 exactly !

[JoshW]

[quote=Doug]

Originally Posted by SBR_John

The lesson?



lesson 2
New books dealing reduced juice are 0 - 4, thats your basic 0% batting average for you non-math majors, to make it to the 2nd year.

That sounds bad for Trojan, then !

What are the four ?

Pan-am and ???

Isn't Mansion close to 2nd year ?

0-4 in what amount of time ?

I am interested in John's four as well. You are right on Mansion, although any other book would have been broke many times over doing what they are doing, clearing an exception, but they are still around after over a year ( 3 months over).

Trojan doesn't count, they are affiliate (really are the same) with Top Cat who has been around forever. Sort of like Hollywood when they went to reduced.

ASAP gets some credit for low juice, but best I could tell they weren't much of a success before CRIS took over.

New Age Bets would be one failrue.

[TOW]

33 players are still to receive approx 160K.

[SBR_John]

There was BetMega and Oklahoma, Wagerfree, Panam and I think 2 others who did not last long enough to remember.

Mansion is a different animal of sorts with the exchange. My post was not very accurate in hindsight because you have to say Canbet made it even if they lost money every quarter for 3 years.

The point is the same: Low juice = High risk

[Brick Tamland]

Wasnt the book gaiders7200 worked for reduced juice?

[raiders72001]

Dick Tamland- Wrong again.

[Brick Tamland]

8 cent baseball line?

Hats off for Dick Tamland. Lil beer came outta my nose.

[bigboydan]

hey gaiders and dick, please keep it on the topic fellas

[raiders72001]

I was just correcting Dick Tamland. I never worked for a reduced shop.

Gaiders

[bigboydan]

Originally Posted by raiders72001

I was just correcting Dick Tamland. I never worked for a reduced shop.

Gaiders

now lets contiune this discussion on Betpanam fellas

[john722]

I am owed 10K can you help\

[Doug]

10K and you just bring it up now ? I hope you have some proof of that.

[bigboydan]

If your owed 10K from betpanam, i think your just perty much screwed right now. because, i highly doubt you will ever see a penny of that money.

[Illusion]

Originally Posted by Doug

10K and you just bring it up now ? I hope you have some proof of that.

Exactly, you are alittle late bud. You probably won't see a nickel of that money.

[THESCOUT]

The Rx drooled over them. KRACKHEAD(what a JERK) or whatever his name is gushed over them nonstop and then never said a word when people started getting stiffed at least shrink apologized but then banned folks for complaining to much. Roberto got me my money back and earned the 10% fee I offered him.