[Bill Dozer]

Turnkey: a product or service concept that is complete, installed and ready to use upon delivery or installation. The product or service is then leased or sold to an individual to run as his/her own venture.

When you think about it, why would anyone want to launch a sportsbook through someone else's service?? My thoughts...

1) Requires a minimal investment.
2) Requires very little commitment
3) The turnkey service provider is responsible for everything except funding and marketing.
4) The customer service, accounting and software are already in place.
5) No experience necessary
6) You don't have to be there and its anonymous

Why would a player want to avoid this type of sportsbook?? Same thoughts come to mind...

1) Requires a minimal investment.
Most of us have seen the ads saying: "OWN YOUR OWN SPORTSBOOK TODAY!!" The ad will go on to say "for as little as $10,000 YOU can own your own Las Vegas-style sportsbook legally". When I see this I will call the "provider" to see if they financially back their vendors and the answer is almost always "No". This pisses me off. These guys are sportsbook Puppymills pumping out low-quality websites for people looking for a get-rich-quick scheme.

For about $35,000 in start up fees and 30% profit share, Futurebet will set up and operate a gaming site for just about anyone. This is why there are 100 Futurebet sites and why many of them are broke.

2) Requires very little commitment
If someone in the states buys a sportsbook from a WorldGaming, then gets whooped during a bad football season, is he going to send more money when he can just pack it in?

3) The turnkey service provider is responsible for everything except funding and marketing.
Often a player will have a dispute with these types of sites and CS drops the bomb..."I just answer phones here for the website". The player is told to email webmaster@FlybynightSports.com.

4) The customer service, accounting and software are already in place.
Trying to find someone in CS who can speak on behalf of these sites is an adventure. The conversation may go something like this...

SBR: Hi, I am calling on behalf of acct holder 555555
Clerk: Which site is that?
SBR: JackPotPlusSportsbook
Clerk: Huh??
SBR: JackPotPlusSportsbook
Clerk: umm What is the site address??
SBR: JackPotPlusSportsbook.com
Clerk: No Sir, you are calling the wrong place.
SBR: No, This is the number on the site. Are you sure you ...
Clerk: Hang on.. <5 minutes passes>
Clerk: Oh ok, what do you need?

5) No experience necessary.
Imagine the frustration for a sports bettor who is left to deal with a book owner who knows less about bookmaking than he does.

6) You don't have to be there and its anonymous
Each time an individual buys into one of these glorified affiliate programs they request an SBR evaluation like they are a brand new book. I thought that these guys might start catching on but each month a new FB or IGS site will ask for an assessment despite the fact that 40 versions of the exact same site are on the blacklist.

Really, how could this be any riskier? You have a sportsbook that was probably purchased with student loans; the owner lives in an apartment 3 doors down from you and when you call CS you have to help them get to the site before they can help you.

Is there ANY reason to play at a book that has bought a clone site that is NOT backed by the company or flagship sportsbook?? The way I see it, the host sportsbook is getting a cut of the profits so why not ease player's minds with your guarantee?? The only possible reason I can think of is that the turnkey provider does not require a sufficient balance to be on hand meaning they themselves would consider the new site a liability.

Most sportsbooks that do vouch for their affiliate sites usually label the books as 'sister sportsbooks', like the Tradewinds Group or the First Fidelity Group.

[jjgold]

Thanks for update

I never knew some of the stuff that goes on out there with books

[Mudcat]

Interesting read. Not that I would ever be in a position of thinking about depositing at one of these things but I guess lots of people do so it's good to have the information out there.

[marc]

I would hope, that for the sake of their own reputation, some of these turnkey operators, would insists on strong financials. The same way, players keep away from futurebet sites, because they are all broke, we'd keep away from worldgaming sites, if they ever started to go belly up.

Betbuckeye took a lot of heat, for giving support to wagerparadise. WOuld have been interesting to see what would have happened to players at spreads, if spreads hadn't come up with additional funding.

[why]

Not to mention they very rarely turn a profit!

[Bill Dozer]

Originally Posted by marc

I would hope, that for the sake of their own reputation, some of these turnkey operators, would insists on strong financials. The same way, players keep away from futurebet sites, because they are all broke, we'd keep away from worldgaming sites, if they ever started to go belly up.

Betbuckeye took a lot of heat, for giving support to wagerparadise. WOuld have been interesting to see what would have happened to players at spreads, if spreads hadn't come up with additional funding.

Marc,
I am still waiting to hear from Dan at Casablanca Gaming about the exact relationship between Wagerweb and the books they service. The list you put together must be 10 books long. Their track record is pretty good and those sites seem to spend money on advertising and know what they are getting into.

BUT, if WagerWeb will not guarentee the money it would be only natural to assume that WagerWeb doesn't require these sister sites to keep sufficient funds on hand.

The spreads slow-pay was only about 24 hours but once players realized that WagerWeb was not going to do anything about it but wait, people panicked and you can understand why. Spreads even used WagerWeb's Neteller acct.

[Bill Dozer]

Originally Posted by why

Not to mention they very rarely turn a profit!

I can think of only one site that marketed its way into being a real player. Take a guess?

[TheGuesser]

I think World Gaming has much stricter rules than a scam outfit like Futurebets, and I believe World Gaming would make good on players funds if an operator ever went belly up or crooked. Claude(the fraud) Levy, a former Starnet licensee stiffed his players and also Starnet for that matter, and the company made good on the players funds. I think a few of their Licensees made/make huge bucks. Sportsbook.com comes to mind first and foremost, and the guy who owns MySportsBook.com just sold his site back to Sportingbet for big bucks. The biggest problems with the World Gaming Turnkey model were always customer service, and the fact that there are no independent odds capabilities.
BetBuckeye should have taken alot more heat in the WagersParadise matter than they did, since I was told on the phone they were the same company. But I wouldn't consider that a turnkey situation, just a crooked one.

[Bill Dozer]

BetBuckeye should have taken alot more heat in the WagersParadise matter than they did, since I was told on the phone they were the same company. But I wouldn't consider that a turnkey situation, just a crooked one.

Guesser,
That is very true. I think players are much more aware that there are only a few major players in the biz and they aren't as confused by the 500 pages of books listed on Google.

The Sportingbet books are actually "backed" by Sportingbet and are billed as part of the sportsbook.com/SBT family. They are required to keep player funds on hand. Even that relationship does not fully protect players as SBT books have been known to get up and leave the group.

When I say World Gaming, I am referring to a lower tier service with its separate license, that doesn't wear the SBT brand. GoSportsbet is now in this position and it looks like FieldGoal.com is as well.

[Bill Dozer]

BTW, The thiefs at BetonUSA are an example of a company under the WorldGaming license in Antigua.

[jjgold]

I would think eventually the FBI catches people that try and scam it just takes time

[LGBoots]

I always wondered why Sporting Bet had so many different sportsbooks.

Didn't realise that most of them were franchise operations.

I have got accounts with quite a few of them. Never had any problems but as I am over 10 dimes + down with them I suppose that is not too surprising

[sportsgamer]

What I don't understand is that if GoSportsbet.com and Fielgoal.com are higher risk then why are all the books that fail usually not the turnkey operators? I researched a few of these books and think the reason is

- the direct operators handle bigger bet limits and thus are exposed to greater amounts. For example some bigger books are handling $10K and up on straight wagers. This exposes them to greater volatility

- I checked out a few Gosportsbet and found their betting limit is smaller 1.5K and if you want to bet larger you need to make a request. this limits their risk. I found other books out there that have 1K limits and lower.

So the risk is not entirely in the turnkey but also in the type of wagers they handle IMO.

[jentude]

Bill i have seen a lot of advertising for this stuff, What kind of backing would someone have to have for you to feel it was solid, and a second question. Where do the lines originate from?

[magnavox]

So... can anyone list here the most secure books from SBT family? The ones that cannot leave SBT overnight...?

[SBR_John]

SBR: Hi, I am calling on behalf of acct holder 555555
Clerk: Which site is that?
SBR: JackPotPlusSportsbook
Clerk: Huh??
SBR: JackPotPlusSportsbook
Clerk: umm What is the site address??
SBR: JackPotPlusSportsbook.com
Clerk: No Sir, you are calling the wrong place.
SBR: No, This is the number on the site. Are you sure you ...
Clerk: Hang on.. <5 minutes passes>
Clerk: Oh ok, what do you need?

I'd say 95% of these turnkeys fail and 4% are bought by the management company. That leaves 1% that are decent. Mainly its the customer service like the example above that is just a nightmare.

[bigboydan]

11.18.2005 (9:33 AM CST)
SBR Bill Dozer reports: New sportsbook WestCoastWagers soliciting players with Sony Playstations as signup bonuses. The only games bettors are likely to see are those this book plays when asked for a withdrawal. WestCoastWagers is part of the Futurebet Group which is months behind in Neteller payouts. WestCoastWagers inherits Futurebet rating of D-.

[JoshW]

Good bump BBD. Bill's post was very detailed and right on.

[onlòóker]

Originally Posted by bigboydan

11.18.2005 (9:33 AM CST)
SBR Bill Dozer reports: New sportsbook WestCoastWagers soliciting players with Sony Playstations as signup bonuses. The only games bettors are likely to see are those this book plays when asked for a withdrawal. WestCoastWagers is part of the Futurebet Group which is months behind in Neteller payouts. WestCoastWagers inherits Futurebet rating of D-.

Are they PS1's or PS2's?

[Bill Dozer]

I just got a call from another player who is looking for his $13,000 from FirstClassSportsbook. They are the latest turnkey (PlayersTime Group) to disappear and ripoff clients. Their hosting company's supervisor says they just took off and they have no way to contact them. Their identity will remain unknown. In fact, the owners are probably starting their next sportsbook right now, and thats if the mystery owners aren't actually the same people who are behind the other sister sites. Players shouldn't go anywhere near these ponzi schemes.

[KidSeoul]

Thank you for the valuable info about these scams. I'm so glad I joined this forum. Thanks again for all the info.

[Illusion]

I'm glad you found us before you lost potentiel money. Welcome to SBR by the way.

[KidSeoul]

Yes, I'm glad I found SBR or I would've lost money for sure. It's rare that you find a genuinely informative and friendly forum these days. I'm glad though that I checked here before anywhere else. Lucky perhaps but it did make sense, "SBR - Sports Book Review". Like the consumer reports for sportsbooks. Hehe. But thanks for everything and for the welcome as well Illusion.

[bigboydan]

just glad we could help steer you in the right direction kidseoul. if you have any questions in the future, don't hesitate to post them