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  1. #1

    Default 60 Minutes this week will have something on internet gambling

    November 17, 2005

    LEGALIZING INTERNET GAMBLING WOULD BRING BILLIONS IN U.S. TAX DOLLARS, BUT
    CRITICS SAY IT CANNOT BE REGULATED AND CAN CORRUPT YOUTH - "60 MINUTES"
    SUNDAY

    So many Americans use their computers to gamble on overseas websites that if
    those virtual casinos were to be regulated and taxed by American authorities,
    tax revenues would be in the billions of dollars. But the federal government
    says Internet gambling is 100 percent illegal, and people who want to keep it
    that way believe that the sites - legal in more and more foreign countries -
    can never really be effectively regulated. What's more, they say, those sites
    can and do corrupt children and create more addicted gamblers. Lesley Stahl
    examines this contentious issue in a 60 MINUTES report to be broadcast
    Sunday, Nov. 20 (7:00-8:00 PM, ET/PT) on the CBS Television Network.

    In Britain, where many online gambling firms are based, a gaming executive
    says America's treasury is missing out. "We calculated that were America to
    have regulated the industry in 2004, the American states would have earned
    $1.2 billion in tax," says Nigel Payne, who runs the London-based
    Sportingbet, one of the biggest online gaming companies. Payne says he would
    be glad to pay an American tax in return for regulation of his industry,

    which he believes would eliminate some of the less-than-reputable sites he
    competes with. Payne estimates that 12.5 million Americans gamble on the
    Internet. Bets placed from the U.S. comprise as much as 80 percent of global
    online gambling, and contribute most of the $10 billion in profit the
    overseas "I-gaming" industry will make this year.

    Despite a long-standing federal ban, more Americans gamble more money on the
    Internet each year. U.S. authorities have never prosecuted individual bettors
    and don't plan to start. Website operators are beyond the reach of U.S. law
    because they're all based overseas, so they operate with impunity...even

    spending millions to advertise here.

    The U.S.'s own domestic gambling industry, which long opposed legalizing

    online gaming, has begun to shift its position. Seeing offshore competitors
    make billions while his U.S. company is shut out of the Internet is
    frustrating for MGM/Mirage CEO Terry Lanni. "There's gaming in every state
    but two states in the United States," he says. "If it's legal [in 48 states]
    and it's regulated and taxed and we're comfortable with it, why don't we

    allow it also in the area of the Internet? It makes no sense," Lanni
    complains.

    But there's no serious move yet in Congress to legalize the industry, and at
    least one member, Sen. Jon Kyl (R-Ariz.) wants a new law to put more teeth in
    the federal prohibition against online gambling. "It's so easy to do. It's so
    easy for kids to do. It's so addictive," says Kyl, who's pushing a bill that
    would prohibit U.S. banks and CC companies from handling any online
    betting transactions. "We may not be able to stop it all, but if we can stop
    the major part of it that's coming from offshore, we will have done something
    very, very good," he tells Stahl.

    Kids can get onto some of the overseas sites, as Alex Hartman, the
    16-year-old son of 60 MINUTES Producer Rome Hartman, demonstrated. Using

    dad's CC, he gained access to a gaming website and quickly lost $100
    playing roulette. Some sites rejected him, however, including one owned by
    Payne's company. Payne says properly regulating the industry so only
    responsible companies like his will survive is the best and only way to
    control the inevitable. "Think people are going to stop gambling? Seriously?
    Do you think the Internet's going to go away?" he asks Stahl.

    SBR Founder Join Date: 8/10/2005


  2. #2

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    stupid American politics.

    let me set myself a reminder for Sunday

    SBR Founder Join Date: 8/10/2005


  3. #3

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    I got a DVR now, time to skip the guide to Sunday, and schedule that recording.

    SBR Founder Join Date: 8/10/2005


  4. #4

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    anytime 60 mins. does a story, it's bad right?...

    SBR Founder Join Date: 8/18/2005


  5. #5

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    in case you guys forgot, this show airs tonight.

    SBR Founder Join Date: 8/10/2005


  6. #6

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    will be interesting to see what angle they play.

    SBR Founder Join Date: 9/6/2005


  7. #7

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    Kudos to anyone who provides a recap of this for people like me unable to watch it. Or, even better, a link to watch it online. Sounds an interesting programme, especially to see which side they take.

    SBR Founder Join Date: 8/10/2005


  8. #8

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    i don't know about having a link or not to watch it. but, i'll see what i can find for you bud.

    SBR Founder Join Date: 8/10/2005


  9. #9

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    Firstly, how does Internet gambling corrupt children? Are they playing poker at online sites? Then that's a parental issue. I've stated here that I'm a police officer and that I'm politically libertarian. I have major issues with our federal government, and one of them is making Internet gambling illegal. The state I live in says it's not illegal, and while the federal government may be legally able to supercede my state, I refuse to go along with a clear violation of my liberty. If the Feds allow gambling to be legal in Vegas and Indian casinos then they are wholly hypocritical for saying it cannot be conducted elsewhere.

    It comes down to money. The government isn't getting any from Internet gambling and that's why they don't like it (along with some pressure from groups with agendas, but the money speaks loudest). For that reason I certainly don't need our British friends offering comment about how much the government is missing out on in lost taxes. The vig and transfer fees I pay are high enough, I don't want my payouts becoming even lower because our bloated, greedy federal government wants to gouge me even further. IMHO our federal government is a parasite.

    SBR Founder Join Date: 10/23/2005


  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shawn01
    It comes down to money. The government isn't getting any from Internet gambling and that's why they don't like it.
    thats probly the real reason. but, they will never admit it.

    SBR Founder Join Date: 8/10/2005


  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shawn01
    It comes down to money. The government isn't getting any from Internet gambling and that's why they don't like it (along with some pressure from groups with agendas, but the money speaks loudest).
    Well, being British I'll offer my comments about how much the government is missing out on in lost taxes.

    Seriously, from what I can see is that the Government is trying to demonise internet gambling because on one hand they're making nothing from it but also for political capital. I'm sure George Bush (or most political leaders) would secretly love to legalise gambling in the USA - just think of the revenues they can get from it. But they're prevented by the backlash that it would cause from the religious God-fearing Americans who got him into power in the first place.

    But it's like prohibition - they're pissing against the wind. They need to accept that it happens, it's always going to happen and there's nothing they can do about it. The WTO ruling re-enforced that. But until they do, they're going to continue to demonise offshore gambling and quote the example of every scam book that has ever been in Costa Rica.

    SBR Founder Join Date: 8/10/2005


  12. #12

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    Yep i agree. The hard line Republican left wing would be up in arms if Bush tried to introduce a gambling bill. Bring on a democrat and you might have a hope. Personally i can't seem the harm but then again what i think really doesn't matter.

    SBR Founder Join Date: 8/31/2005


  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by mad
    Yep i agree. The hard line Republican left wing would be up in arms if Bush tried to introduce a gambling bill. Bring on a democrat and you might have a hope. Personally i can't seem the harm but then again what i think really doesn't matter.
    I think you mean right wing.

    I guess we may need Wayne Root in Congress now right Senator...lol

    Anyway...the goverment's hypocricy is rampant as usual talking about how this corrupts kids and other unfounded nonesense. What really corrupts kids is the endless advertising they are exposed to by cigarette and alcohol manufactors. Let me tell you when I drive back from Wisconsin to Michigan for the holidays and stuff I only run into about 50 or so bilboards for casinos with people jumping into money and laughing and smiling and so on. Give me a break.

    All they need to do is regulate it and everything will be okay just like that Mirage guy was talking about.

    The United States is very backwards in a lot of things like this...they just haven't caught up with the times. Nothing is going to change in the next ten years people will still be placing bets.

    They should have featured Bill Dozer on that segment.

    SBR Founder Join Date: 8/10/2005


  14. #14

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    Just set a reminder to tune to this when its on.

    SBR Founder Join Date: 8/10/2005


  15. #15

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    Great posts, Shawn, Taco, Mad!

    I completely agree.

    The U.S. is becoming almost backwards by becoming ultra-conservative. The online gambling issue right now is 100% political, I don't see it getting legalized any time soon. What politician really wants to champion such a "sleazy" topic?

    If the U.S. gets ahold of online gambling, it'll become even sleazier. Government taxation, corporate greed, morality be damned. I'd rather let the Brits be the ones handling the morality of gaming.

    SBR Founder Join Date: 10/6/2005


  16. #16

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    What gets me is that it's OK to get into your car and go to Nevada or Atlantic City and gamble away the family home. However the federal government has the power to say that you can't jump online and wager. Am i correct in thinking that you can wager in your individual states, such as in Nevada, should your state government allow it?

    SBR Founder Join Date: 8/31/2005


  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by slacker00
    The U.S. is becoming almost backwards by becoming ultra-conservative. The online gambling issue right now is 100% political, I don't see it getting legalized any time soon. What politician really wants to champion such a "sleazy" topic?
    The behaviour of the US Government is hardly atypical but it is rather conservative. Political capital is everything which is why it's acceptable to have guns at home but giving people the right to stick $20 on the Yankees will somehow lead to a breakdown in society.

    Quote Originally Posted by slacker00
    If the U.S. gets ahold of online gambling, it'll become even sleazier. Government taxation, corporate greed, morality be damned. I'd rather let the Brits be the ones handling the morality of gaming.
    They'll just provide crap sportsbooks. Bet on -110 lines, no bonuses in sight but everyday punters will fall over themselves to bet there and the Government will count the money. The offshores won't be affected that much i the long-term - the smart people know that reputable offshore joints will offer them significantly more value than the state-sponsored ones.

    SBR Founder Join Date: 8/10/2005


  18. #18

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    I didn't see the show...how was it?...

    SBR Founder Join Date: 8/18/2005


  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by pags11
    I didn't see the show...how was it?...
    I set my DVR to record it. I will probably check it out later today.

    SBR Founder Join Date: 8/10/2005


  20. #20

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    it was basicly alot of talk about poker mainly. nothing really new that all of us didn't already know.

    SBR Founder Join Date: 8/10/2005


  21. #21

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    I thought it would focus more on sports betting...interesting...I guess poker is more popular at this point, especially online...

    SBR Founder Join Date: 8/18/2005


  22. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by pags11
    I guess poker is more popular at this point, especially online...

    poker is huge right now pags. personaly, online poker does nothing for me at all.

    SBR Founder Join Date: 8/10/2005


  23. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by tacomax
    The behaviour of the US Government is hardly atypical but it is rather conservative. Political capital is everything which is why it's acceptable to have guns at home but giving people the right to stick $20 on the Yankees will somehow lead to a breakdown in society.
    While I strongly advocate the right to own firearms your point is still well made. Personally, I'd replace guns with porn. Pornography and gambling are both moral issues, but one is legal and the other is not (there is some legal gambling but it's limited). What's the difference? Money. There's not much to be made in taxing porn, but a buttload of $$ in gambling taxes. Both can ruin people who are inclined to become addicted, but you cannot legislate to the masses in order to protect a minority who will be hurt by something legal. If that were the case alcohol would be illegal (we tried that and it failed). I happen to believe that legislating morality doesn't work and tends to restrict liberties anyway.

    SBR Founder Join Date: 10/23/2005


  24. #24

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    Legalized gambling via the internet is still four years away. I will set the over under as November 21, 2009. Bush won't even try to touch this issue as he has more important things to worry about for the remainder of his term. It will happen, too much money being forfeited by the government. I remain amazed that the US casino's don't lobby harder for legalization of internet gambling.

    Bring in a president who is a businsessman and understand $ and cents and not worried about votes in the Bible Belt and it will be legalized.

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  25. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by bigboydan
    poker is huge right now pags. personaly, online poker does nothing for me at all.

    Me either....i still can't understand this poker craze.

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  26. #26

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    double B, i can understand the craze. but, playing online poker is nothing like playing in a live game. oh sure, you can track betting patterns of the online poker player. but, what you can't do is read the person and find there true tells other than the betting patterns.

    SBR Founder Join Date: 8/10/2005


  27. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by clonecat
    I remain amazed that the US casino's don't lobby harder for legalization of internet gambling.

    Bring in a president who is a businsessman and understand $ and cents and not worried about votes in the Bible Belt and it will be legalized.
    The US casinos no doubt do lobby hard for legalization but if backing them makes a politician unelectable then all the backhanders in the world ain't gonna make a difference.

    It's all well and good saying ignore the Bible Belt but if they hold a sizeable enough vote then they simply can't be ignored. If their vote is the difference between being elected and not being elected then you've got to pander to them - that's politics for you.

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  28. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by tacomax
    The behaviour of the US Government is hardly atypical but it is rather conservative. Political capital is everything which is why it's acceptable to have guns at home but giving people the right to stick $20 on the Yankees will somehow lead to a breakdown in society.
    As a former gun enthusiast I have to agree. Both guns and gambling can lead to lots of problems or can be a responsible past time.

    Given a choice I would get rid of guns first in a heart beat. Having guns in the home can be very dangerous and I am not sure there are a lot of cases were owning a gun can be justified at least for myself. Same can be said for gambling to some degree, but usually is a little less life and death.

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  29. #29

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    good thread here guys...

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  30. #30

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    Watched that 60 minute spot. They seemed to be more worried about under age gambling on that spot then anything. They want the US to regulate it so it isnt so easy for under age kids to get on and play poker and casino games. Had something about it being bad for troubled gamblers, that they have instant access from home. If your a troubled gambler, you will find a way, no matter what, untill you get help with your problem.

    SBR Founder Join Date: 8/10/2005


  31. #31

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    I was an under aged gambler at regular casinos...

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