[bigloser]

Pointsports the owner of Pointbet has made an application to be struck off the UK companies register. The application was advertised on 15 Dec 2006. If nobody objects within a certain period of time the company will cease to exist (I think the period is 3 months).
If a company is struck off it is extremely difficult for it to be reinstated.
On the positive side the Directors wll have had to make certain statements in support of the application. Given the current state of the company it is possible they lied. If this is the case then they could be jailed.

[bigloser]

Company Name:
POINTSPORTS LTD

Company No: 05499007
Registered Office:
Incorporated: 05/07/2005 7 PETWORTH ROAD
HASLEMERE
SURREY
GU27 2JB

Company Type: Private Limited
Legal Status: Striking off Notice
Report Status: Full Data

[pibedoro]

just some minutes ago I contacted chintya of Pointbets live chat service. I asked her about the actual slowpay situation politely. She hung up. Chat session ended there.

May their souls burn in hell.

[jackal]

How do you object and who do you object to?

[bigloser]

Summary below. For more info go to

http://www.companieshouse.gov.uk/abo...tml/gbw2.shtml

Looks like Pointbet have broken loads of rules


8. How and why can they object?

Objections must be in writing and sent to the Registrar of Companies with any supporting evidence, such as copies of invoices that may prove the company is trading. Reasons for objecting include:
the company has broken any of the conditions of its application (for example, it has traded, changed its name or become subject to insolvency proceedings) during the three-month period before the application, or afterwards;
the directors have not informed interested parties;
any of the declarations on the form are false;
some form of action is being taken, or is pending, to recover any money owed (such as a winding-up petition or action in a small claims court);
other legal action is being taken against the company;
the directors have wrongfully traded or committed a tax fraud or some other offence

[bigloser]

SECRETARY: KENNEDY, PETER

Appointed: 29/11/2005 Date of Birth: 08/05/1959
Nationality: BRITISH

No. of Company appointments: 12

Address: 62C HANGER LANE

LONDON

W5 2JH






DIRECTOR: WIYONO, ONG ONGKO

Appointed: 29/11/2005 Date of Birth: 16/05/1966
Nationality: INDONESIAN

No. of Company appointments: 1

Address: ANGGREK NELLY MURNI B 70 NO. 30

JAKARTA

11480

INDONESIA


This Report excludes resignations

[bigloser]

By the looks of the companies house website the deadline is 12 march.
I think it would be enough to demonstrate that they are still tarding to get tehm struck of. So a link to the Pointbet website should do it. And perhaps a link to a couple of SBR No Pay threads

[jackal]

Originally Posted by bigloser

By the looks of the companies house website the deadline is 12 march.
I think it would be enough to demonstrate that they are still tarding to get tehm struck of. So a link to the Pointbet website should do it. And perhaps a link to a couple of SBR No Pay threads

OK i have written to companies house but my expectations of them are extrememly low.

I think in general the story goes something like this...

i) company directors/owners come to companies house with an angry mob who they owe money to in hot pursuit.

ii) directors/owners welcomed inside mob held outside. mob is reassured by companies house that they will do everything they can to get them what they are owed by the directors/owners

iii) meanwhile the directors/owners are being ushered through the back door to a new life and/or identity.

iv) after the owners/directors escape companies house address the mob saying something along the lines we are very sorry we did everything we could, blah blah, they only had £xxx,000.00 of assests which coincidentlly is just enough to cover legal fees and administration. we empathise with your situation etc. etc. but you have all been stiffed.

I expect nothing other than a good old fashioned stiffing to arise from this situation now.

[vanman]

It`s never over till the fat lady sings,but whats that i hear.

[Shagrath]

Originally Posted by vanman

It`s never over till the fat lady sings,but whats that i hear.

And why is that funny?

[bigloser]

Originally Posted by jackal

iv) after the owners/directors escape companies house address the mob saying something along the lines we are very sorry we did everything we could, blah blah, they only had £xxx,000.00 of assests which coincidentlly is just enough to cover legal fees and administration. we empathise with your situation etc. etc. but you have all been stiffed.

Companies House will do nothing to get you your money back. It is not their job.
What you have done is prevent the company disappearing . It may be you could request the docs that they submitted in support of the striking off. It is possible that they have been fraudulently submitted.
To get your money back you will need to proceed through the courts. You could not have done this had the company been struck off as it would have ceased to exist.

[jackal]

"To get your money back you will need to proceed through the courts"

On what basis could I bring legal proceedings against Pointbet given that gambling debts aren't enforceable by law?

Would the fact that they gave the impression they were British Virgin Islands based but were actually trading illegally from Batam Island, Indonesia be enough to take them court?

[bigloser]

Originally Posted by jackal

On what basis could I bring legal proceedings against Pointbet given that gambling debts aren't enforceable by law?

Read post in other Pointbet thread. You are not pursuing gambling winnings , which arent enforcable , but your deposited balance. You can claim your total deposits should your balance be greater than your deposits. If your balance is less than your deposits you can claim your total balance.
Imagine you had deposited with a book but never placed a bet, you would not be claiming back gambling debts, how can you have a gambling debt you have never placed a bet.
It is very important that on any claims you file you specify it as return of deposits/balance and do not refer to gambling winnings.

[winning2007]

Originally Posted by bigloser

Read post in other Pointbet thread. You are not pursuing gambling winnings , which arent enforcable , but your deposited balance. You can claim your total deposits should your balance be greater than your deposits. If your balance is less than your deposits you can claim your total balance.
Imagine you had deposited with a book but never placed a bet, you would not be claiming back gambling debts, how can you have a gambling debt you have never placed a bet.
It is very important that on any claims you file you specify it as return of deposits/balance and do not refer to gambling winnings.

after 90 days, pointbet paid for me.
Thank POINTBET

[GLopez]

Originally Posted by winning2007

after 90 days, pointbet paid for me.
Thank POINTBET

Wow, finally some good news again. May I ask which amount and via which method?

[RickySteve]

Originally Posted by GLopez

Wow, finally some good news again. May I ask which amount and via which method?

You don't actually believe this doofus do you?

[winning2007]

Originally Posted by GLopez

Wow, finally some good news again. May I ask which amount and via which method?

Yes, by Moneybookers.
Amount? 0$.
Pointbet is too Utterly stupid.

[GLopez]

Oh damn, looks like I didn't understand your sarcasm

[pibedoro]

nice sarcasm winning2007. pls ban him mods

[wack]

Originally Posted by bigloser

Read post in other Pointbet thread. You are not pursuing gambling winnings , which arent enforcable , but your deposited balance. You can claim your total deposits should your balance be greater than your deposits. If your balance is less than your deposits you can claim your total balance.
Imagine you had deposited with a book but never placed a bet, you would not be claiming back gambling debts, how can you have a gambling debt you have never placed a bet.
It is very important that on any claims you file you specify it as return of deposits/balance and do not refer to gambling winnings.

That's all very well and good. But what if they don't have the money to pay you? They have obviously endured heavy losses during the world cup and since then, plus the army of staff they have to employ to tell people "Don't worry we pay you soon".

The only thing about taking the matter to court that bothers me above and beyond the gambling debts issue is that if they don't have the money, I can't imagine they have many significant assets (?) so how are we ever going to get paid?

[wack]

Originally Posted by jackal

OK i have written to companies house but my expectations of them are extrememly low.

I think in general the story goes something like this...

i) company directors/owners come to companies house with an angry mob who they owe money to in hot pursuit.

ii) directors/owners welcomed inside mob held outside. mob is reassured by companies house that they will do everything they can to get them what they are owed by the directors/owners

iii) meanwhile the directors/owners are being ushered through the back door to a new life and/or identity.

iv) after the owners/directors escape companies house address the mob saying something along the lines we are very sorry we did everything we could, blah blah, they only had £xxx,000.00 of assests which coincidentlly is just enough to cover legal fees and administration. we empathise with your situation etc. etc. but you have all been stiffed.

I expect nothing other than a good old fashioned stiffing to arise from this situation now.

Jackal did you email or send the objection by post?

[bigloser]

Originally Posted by wack

That's all very well and good. But what if they don't have the money to pay you? They have obviously endured heavy losses during the world cup and since then, plus the army of staff they have to employ to tell people "Don't worry we pay you soon".

The only thing about taking the matter to court that bothers me above and beyond the gambling debts issue is that if they don't have the money, I can't imagine they have many significant assets (?) so how are we ever going to get paid?

As previously stated

Originally Posted by bigloser

Of course all this doesnt mean that you would eb successful in recovering anything

[wack]

Originally Posted by bigloser

As previously stated

Yes, so is it worth hundreds (and most probably thousands) in legal bills to get to the point where you are told "nope, they have no money"?

That's my point. My thinking is probably not, since if they had any money they would be paying at least SOME players. I don't believe they are paying anyone and I don't believe anyone was paid in february. Just seems logical to me. They know people aren't coming back after they have been stiffed, so why pay anyone anything? What assets would they have anyway, I can't imagine many. I just foresee 3 months of legal costs to recover 5% of a debt which won't be enough to cover legal costs, quite frankly.

On 12th/15th/19th March (my own digging has led to these three dates of the motion to strike) I would guess they are going offline, or at least everyone can kiss any hope of ever getting paid goodbye.

The fact they are now saying "we can now tell you for definite you will get your money in 1-2 weeks" to me is just WAY too coincidental with these dates. They will stall everyone until on e of the three above dates and then be scot free - maybe still operating illegally but no longer being a UK company.

After this time there surely won't be any point being online, as no one will be betting with them and CERTAINLY won't be depositing unless they are mad. From what I can understand from any asian forums I have seen people aren't getting paid there either. I would not be surprised to see the site offline within 14 days.

It is getting to the point now where you google them and only find their own site and negative reviews, which wasn't the case a few weeks ago. Just hope no one else gets stiffed, I really don't think any of us are going to get our money.

[noyb]

Originally Posted by wack

The fact they are now saying "we can now tell you for definite you will get your money in 1-2 weeks" to me is just WAY too coincidental with these dates.

they have been telling me i will get my money in 0-1-2 weeks for ages now, at some point the current date plus 0-1-2 weeks is obviously going to coincide with the expected dates of the striking, so that argument i don't find that convincing.

altough i totally agree with your analysis regarding the fact they will problably disappear unless a miracle happens in the very near future and i very much doubt if we are ever going to see our money again, i think you are putting too much importance into the whole "striking"-matter. from what i understand the british company about to be striked has no direct connection to the gambling operation where the players funds are (who knows if players fund are even in any entity recognized in any country). to be honest i personally believe the striking-process is not that relevant to us (altough obviously attempting to prevent it will do nobody any harm). i believe there's nothing stopping them disappearing at any date, whether or not the whole striking-thing is succesfull or not.

[fantabaldu]

From Asia and especially from Indonesia are more than 2 month that when you try to open pointbet site , it's open only a blank page...
From what i know in last 2 months point bet did not pay anybody....not somebody....Nobody...No chinese people , not european not american...

My contact in indonesia and especially in Jakarta found for me the privat number of Mr Lam that was the offical representative but he told to my contact that now i doesn't work more fore pointbet and the private number of boss Mr.Wiyono...
I've also it's private e mail...
If somebody need theese contact i can give not a probllem...

So my contact in Jakarta spoke directly with the boss about my case and about my 35k withdraw pending but he told him the same things that i'm listening since 2 months...
And till now absolutly no kind of money in my account...
Now my contat are tryin to have the right address in jakarta where they are really operating...
for me the only way to have back some money is to go directly in theyr real office...
Probably all money it's lost and i don't think that write to English official gambling autorithy can help in some way...
But if someone can have some different idea , i''l listen ..

Maybe someone have different news that i can have

If i will have some other news in next days i'll write here..

[noyb]

thanks fantabaldu, interesting post. i've send you a private message.

[wack]

Originally Posted by noyb

they have been telling me i will get my money in 0-1-2 weeks for ages now, at some point the current date plus 0-1-2 weeks is obviously going to coincide with the expected dates of the striking, so that argument i don't find that convincing.

altough i totally agree with your analysis regarding the fact they will problably disappear unless a miracle happens in the very near future and i very much doubt if we are ever going to see our money again, i think you are putting too much importance into the whole "striking"-matter. from what i understand the british company about to be striked has no direct connection to the gambling operation where the players funds are (who knows if players fund are even in any entity recognized in any country). to be honest i personally believe the striking-process is not that relevant to us (altough obviously attempting to prevent it will do nobody any harm). i believe there's nothing stopping them disappearing at any date, whether or not the whole striking-thing is succesfull or not.

From pointbet's website:

Who are Pointbet.Com ?

The betting industry is going through a revolution, offering unique opportunities to trade globally. Trading barriers are being removed. Online betting via internet is a rare opportunity, In March 2000 Pointbet.Com was introduced. Since then Pointbet.Com has grown further and is now recognized as being one of the leading soccer bookmakers with specialty in Asian Handicap Soccer. All major worldwide sport is our aim in the future. Pointbet.com is wholly owned and operated by Pointsports LTD.

Especially note the last sentence.

Then consider what it means for the company POINTSPORTS LTD to be struck off the register:

1) The company has been legally dissolved on the basis that it has ceased trading and has no creditors.

This means that the directors and any parties involved (see KENNEDY, PETER with 12 other involvements) get away scot free, rather than having to declare insolvency and the associated problems, which of course they would rather do.

2) There is no accountability for the debt anymore.

I haven't had the 1-2 weeks argument in the 80 days I have been pursuing them, so for me it was significant.

Having said all that, your last sentence "i believe there's nothing stopping them disappearing at any date, whether or not the whole striking-thing is succesfull or not." is of course 100% correct. As I said even if you can prevent the striking of the company, the only significance will be to the secretary and directors as it will be a "black mark" on their record, not the kind of thing that is going to elicit 7 figure payouts from them worldwide.

I would be interested to hear how anyone thinks contact details of the indonesian director could be useful.

If the striking isn't relevant somehow why bother applying for it in the first place? Either way, I agree efforts to stop it can do no harm. Still think the only hope is a bailout, and every day this goes on more and more negative feedback appears all over the net and makes it even less of an "attractive" proposition to any potential bailers.

[jackal]

Originally Posted by wack

Jackal did you email or send the objection by post?

Hand written letter. The more letters they receive the better though in my opinion.

I actually received a reply from the pointbet cashier to one of my daily withdrawal enquires today. It simply said they are still processing my withdrawal. No 1 to 2 weeks message for me.

At least if we stop the company being struck off it should make it more difficult for the directors to simply repeat this elsewhere.

[wack]

Originally Posted by jackal

Hand written letter. The more letters they receive the better though in my opinion.

I actually received a reply from the pointbet cashier to one of my daily withdrawal enquires today. It simply said they are still processing my withdrawal. No 1 to 2 weeks message for me.

At least if we stop the company being struck off it should make it more difficult for the directors to simply repeat this elsewhere.

Agreed Jackal and I have done the same stating my objections to the striking. Sent via email and post although they have no "automated response" email to the enquiries@ address they list on the site even giving any kind of time scale.

I am following up on the phone in the morning to companies house.

It won't be long before their current base of operations will be tracked down, if that will be any use to any of us.

[winning2007]

Originally Posted by noyb

thanks fantabaldu, interesting post. i've send you a private message.

wow, pointbet dont pay for you, I dont understand why?

[winning2007]

Originally Posted by bigloser

By the looks of the companies house website the deadline is 12 march.
I think it would be enough to demonstrate that they are still tarding to get tehm struck of. So a link to the Pointbet website should do it. And perhaps a link to a couple of SBR No Pay threads

I think that good for new player, we should write a letter to moneybookers and tell them. Dont transfer any deposit to pointbet account.

[wack]

Originally Posted by jackal

Hand written letter. The more letters they receive the better though in my opinion.

I actually received a reply from the pointbet cashier to one of my daily withdrawal enquires today. It simply said they are still processing my withdrawal. No 1 to 2 weeks message for me.

At least if we stop the company being struck off it should make it more difficult for the directors to simply repeat this elsewhere.

I have had an email response from companies house.

Cue cut and paste:

Dear Sir/Madam,

The company has not applied to be dissolved. Companies House is proposing to strike the company from the register for non filing of documents.

I have forwarded your enquiry on to the relevant section of Companies House and am awaiting a response. You will receive a more detailed reply within 2 working days.

This changes things in a way, although we are still in the same boat. It is slightly more heartening that they are not dissolving of their own choice, and no surprise that they have failed to file the relevant documents.

However it is even less likely that the striking motion will be stopped surely given that it is Companies House who have filed it! The whole pointsports ltd avenue would seem to be a waste of time.

I will keep the forum updated with any further responses from Companies House, I expect them to be along the lines of "you must proceed through the courts to recover monies" etc.

[bigloser]

Originally Posted by wack

However it is even less likely that the striking motion will be stopped surely given that it is Companies House who have filed it! The whole pointsports ltd avenue would seem to be a waste of time.

No, this should stop the striking off. Companies house are not allowed to strike off trading companies. Often they just do this to get someone to contact them. You guys have done this. They will now try to contact the company.

[p]

Originally Posted by wack

Still think the only hope is a bailout, and every day this goes on more and more negative feedback appears all over the net and makes it even less of an "attractive" proposition to any potential bailers.

We are the Pointbet’s biggest asset at this moment and what we have to do is persuade the potential new owners that we will at least give them a chance to prove they are going to change the Pointbet’s bad policy. What if we agreed not to withdraw our resources for say a month or to make a certain turnover before we ask for another withdrawal or to sacrifice a percentage of our bankroll with them? I know this is not the way it should look like but I prefer this to losing everything.

[wack]

Originally Posted by bigloser

No, this should stop the striking off. Companies house are not allowed to strike off trading companies. Often they just do this to get someone to contact them. You guys have done this. They will now try to contact the company.

That's almost correct - sadly the reason for companies house initiating the striking off was that pointbet had filed no returns and also was not contactable. Unless CH take my advice and try to contact them through the website (which let's face it, will be interesting to say the least) The company will still be struck on 9th June 2007. It's bought 3 months but no more than that.

To stop striking after that date - "If you need
to maintain your objection after this time, you will need to provide up
to date evidence of action being taken to recover the debt." From CH email.

Pointbet still deny all knowledge of even the EXISTENCE of companies house, so what use this will have I don't know.