[SBR_John]

They should pay the people who trusted them with their money. If they had some money frozen thats not the players problem. If I had my bank account frozen does that mean I dont have to pay my electric bill? If the DoJ holds the funds and eventually seizes the money do we the players get stiffed? If the DoJ freezes some Citibank's on a questionable wire does Citibank refuse to pay all of its customers?

Neteller earned around $300 million dollars in the last 12 months. So why can't they pay us? Because they are looking for any reason to lay down and become stiffs? I think so ala BetOnSports.

[Yoshi]

Hmm the situation sucks big time, but i dont think so John.
Its not all Netellers fault, iam sure they hate what the U.S. is doing as much as we all do, and would love to pay everyone just like they did in the past (and still do for non US customers afaik, at least i have no problems).

[michael777]

neteller owes people money,neteller must pay right now,no excuses should be accepted

[Santo]

I disagree also, opinions seem very divided Euros v Americans on this. Opinion this side of the atlantic is about 90% that it's your government's fault.

[Santo]

BTW, The Bank Wire thread likely explains why Neteller aren't paying..

[PeterWellington]

Originally Posted by Santo

I disagree also, opinions seem very divided Euros v Americans on this. Opinion this side of the atlantic is about 90% that it's your government's fault.

It's the government's fault for starting this mess but what I think the rest of the world is missing is how Neteller has handled the situation after the fact.

I can tell you from first-hand experience that they've treated their U.S. customers so poorly, I would never give them a dime of my money again, even if I were living in another country.

[Dark Horse]

I hate to say this, but I think this is more or less realistic. Neteller is motivated by fear of the US government. They will pay as soon as fear of the public becomes stronger. There are numerous ways to accomplish this, involving different levels of intimidation and violence.

[bigloser]

Although I am still trying to get to the bottom of my transfer issues (avoid efts at all costs), I was told by the banks solicitors that as soon as my transfer reached the states it became the recipients. This was fine for me as it meant that it was not my money that was confiscated.
It wasnt until I hung up that I realised the implications for those receiving $US from Neteller . As soon as Neteller transferred the money to the states it became the property of the beneficiary, ie YOU. Technically therefore the funds were not seized from Neteller but from YOU. Neteller have paid you, you need to reclaim the money from the US government.
The lawyer was very helpful and very disparaging of the US government. Felt she was on the verge of swearing about them but couldnt quite bring herself to do it.

Just a few thoughts, I am not finding these banking issues easy to understand, therefore dont treat the above as definitive. It is just my current understanding of the situation.

[SBR_John]

Originally Posted by bigloser

Although I am still trying to get to the bottom of my transfer issues (avoid efts at all costs), I was told by the banks solicitors that as soon as my transfer reached the states it became the recipients. This was fine for me as it meant that it was not my money that was confiscated.
It wasnt until I hung up that I realised the implications for those receiving $US from Neteller . As soon as Neteller transferred the money to the states it became the property of the beneficiary, ie YOU. Technically therefore the funds were not seized from Neteller but from YOU. Neteller have paid you, you need to reclaim the money from the US government.
The lawyer was very helpful and very disparaging of the US government. Felt she was on the verge of swearing about them but couldnt quite bring herself to do it.

Just a few thoughts, I am not finding these banking issues easy to understand, therefore dont treat the above as definitive. It is just my current understanding of the situation.

Hmm I hope that doesn't make sense .

I ordered a check. It was never sent. It originally said "Processed" and a few days later it was changed to "Pending". Now that money(the frozen money) might have been earmarked to pay me but it never was. I'm not a lawyer but I don't see how NT could even remotely claim that my money was siezed by the DoJ.

[chris tonkin]

Stop Blaming Neteller And Look In Your Own Back Yard

This Is All Bushes Fault And The Dumb Asses Who Voted For Him

[Korchnoi]

Originally Posted by SBR_John

They should pay the people who trusted them with their money. If they had some money frozen thats not the players problem. If I had my bank account frozen does that mean I dont have to pay my electric bill? If the DoJ holds the funds and eventually seizes the money do we the players get stiffed? If the DoJ freezes some Citibank's on a questionable wire does Citibank refuse to pay all of its customers?

Neteller earned around $300 million dollars in the last 12 months. So why can't they pay us? Because they are looking for any reason to lay down and become stiffs? I think so ala BetOnSports.

I made this same point a couple weeks ago in a different thread. I believe my opinion was pretty unpopular, although I still hold it.

[goldengoat]

well things were just fine before the US DOJ butted in

[tacomax]

Originally Posted by Santo

I disagree also, opinions seem very divided Euros v Americans on this. Opinion this side of the atlantic is about 90% that it's your government's fault.

As low as 90%?

[pags11]

agreed john...

[marc]

Bigloser,

Big difference between bank wires and eft's. When neteller sends EFT, money first goes to a wholly owned subsidiary in the states. That subsidiary then sends the eft using an ach facility. The funds that were siezed were from this subsidiary.

I understand Neteller's inability to send funds to US soil. What I find reprehesible is the fact that for 4 weeks they kept telling us the money is on its way, and that the delays were due the volume of withdrawal requests. Why did they lie. WHy didn't they just tell us the truth from the begining. The fact that they lied for no reason speaks volumes about the integrity of the people running the compnay

Also, if Neteller really wnated to pay us, why won't they allow US resdients to open non-US bankaccounts, and send us our money in euros. Or, why don't they contract some check processors and have them send us checks in thier name.

Bottom line is if Neteller wanted to pay us they could. The reason why they aren't paying us is that the $55,000,000 the US grabbed belongs to them, and they are doing everything possible so that the DOJ won't indict the current executives, or the company, and will give back some if not all the money they are holding

[gotsteam]

While I fully believe the problems all of us are experiencing in the gaming industry, especially with neteller is 100% the fault of the Fascist US Government, I still have to recommend all merchants and non US customers stay away from neteller.

I know of several merchants going through the same thing US neteller users are.

Wires promised, claims wires have been sent, yet many weeks passing with the merchants not receiving the wires.

My suggestion to everyone, players, merchants alike is to file formal complaints with the FSA against neteller plc, as well as each of their subsiduaries.

I also want to note that the company youteller which some have been talking about has many of the key neteller people behind it.

[louis]

Of course the US government is acting like a facist regime, but neteller doesn't get any
blame at all?

Neteller has no way to pay us?

That's a bunch of bull.

Here's how they can pay if they wanted to:

1) They could send checks, denominated in Euros and/or Canadian dollars drawn on foreign banks. At this point many US residents would take these.

2) They could send gift certificates to stores on the web that sell items such as gold coins, debit cards, that could easily be converted to cash.

3) They could allow non-gaming merchants to set up accounts that sell gold coins, debit cards, that could easily be converted to cash.

4) They could buy us VISA gift cards for the amount of our deposit.

5) They could make it easy for U.S. residents to change their address to a foreign country and continue to use the service.

6) They could pay us cash or money order in person.

Clearly, neteller is full of excuses. They are absolutely no better than BOS.

These statements that they have NO ways to pay Americans are FALSE. I have written them asking them to pay me in Euros, drawn on a European bank which I could deposit in a new Swiss Euro-denominated account. They have refused. The U.S. DOJ, FBI, Congress, President, have not blocked neteller from doing this.

The fact is they have frozen these funds so they can use it as NEGOTIATING LEVERAGE to avoid having their company charged and fined. They have frozen this funds so that they can show a lot of assets on their balance sheet, and thus attract more suckers.

Anyone who uses this service is a fool.

[Dark Horse]

Originally Posted by SBR_John

They should pay the people who trusted them with their money. If they had some money frozen thats not the players problem. If I had my bank account frozen does that mean I dont have to pay my electric bill? If the DoJ holds the funds and eventually seizes the money do we the players get stiffed? If the DoJ freezes some Citibank's on a questionable wire does Citibank refuse to pay all of its customers?

Neteller earned around $300 million dollars in the last 12 months. So why can't they pay us? Because they are looking for any reason to lay down and become stiffs? I think so ala BetOnSports.

I hope you're lucky in love, because this is unbelievable. Put in your own money to enter a contest, win the contest (backed by super reliable Pinny), only to have your winnings frozen; and they weren't even from gambling.

[Scorpion]

I had never requested an EFT, never! Therefore the money the US gov has seized has nothing to with me
If I travel to where neteller is located why cant I go to their office and get a check in Euro or sterling for my neteller balance?

Why neteller does not do this? What is wrong with it?

[PeterWellington]

louis is 100% correct.

As someone with money stuck there, it's in my best interest to encourage the rest of the world to do business with them so they have a better chance of staying profitable. But they've handled this so poorly I've already chalked my money up as a loss and don't want to see anyone else get burned down the line.

Do not do business with these people. Take all of your money out today and let them know why you did- because they're treating their U.S. customers like shit and it's a sign that you might be on the receiving end down the line.

[Lucas]

Originally Posted by PeterWellington

louis is 100% correct.

As someone with money stuck there, it's in my best interest to encourage the rest of the world to do business with them so they have a better chance of staying profitable. But they've handled this so poorly I've already chalked my money up as a loss and don't want to see anyone else get burned down the line.

Do not do business with these people. Take all of your money out today and let them know why you did- because they're treating their U.S. customers like shit and it's a sign that you might be on the receiving end down the line.

ok,
give me alternative please... alternative that i can use at any bookie without limits
thank you - i ll switch immediatelly

[Santo]

Agreed Lucas. I have no plans to stop using Neteller. Sure I'll moderate the amounts I keep there (storing funds in Betfair or an alternative), but I'll certainly continue using them because they're still the best method there is.

[azkid]

Why chalk up your money as a loss? If they wanted to run off with our cash, they would have done it a long time ago. Nobody is going to steal our money. We will get it eventually.

[Zerlinco]

Originally Posted by SBR_John

They should pay the people who trusted them with their money. If they had some money frozen thats not the players problem. If I had my bank account frozen does that mean I dont have to pay my electric bill? If the DoJ holds the funds and eventually seizes the money do we the players get stiffed? If the DoJ freezes some Citibank's on a questionable wire does Citibank refuse to pay all of its customers?

Neteller earned around $300 million dollars in the last 12 months. So why can't they pay us? Because they are looking for any reason to lay down and become stiffs? I think so ala BetOnSports.

John, Agree with you 110%. I personally feel that they knew what was going to happen and decided NOT to do anything about it. That is, pay the players (customers). In the meantime, they shoved a few bucks in their pockets and could care less of the outcome.

In the other hand, PayPal did the right thing some-time back and warned their customers.

PS. I never cared for Neteller because of their high fees and the worst exchange rate in the industry.

[SBR_John]

And $55 nillion they had frozen represents less than 2 months of profits.

They will not get in any more trouble from the Feds for refunding money that we trusted them with. That excuse doesn't wash. Just another stiff looking for a reason to lay down.

[capitalist pig]

Personally, Ive just about given up ever getting my $ from neteller. Actually if it wasnt for posts here Id never even have thought about the $ anymore. I really dont even care at this point. I would sooner have them just come out and say we aint paying you your $ back and be done with it. At least then there would be closure on the issue. This is like bad sex, you know you need to finish the job, but just want it to be over with and go to sleep.

I dont know, but IMO things must be alot worse than they appear to be at neteller. If they were just US issues the stock would have started trading again. Ive traded stocks for years, and have never seen/heard of a company halting trading for 6 weeks, its just not something that happens. I would think that stock holders in the UK and elsewhere would be raising Hell with them to open trading again. Forget the US $ they have, this is affecting all the shareholders of the company also, their funds being in stock are also frozen.

later

[Sam Odom]

Everyone hates an I-Told-You-So

BUT:

I wish all USA Neteller members had listen to me last summer when I told them to get out like I did. The so called 'handwriting' was on the wall.

[pags11]

sam, you were right...I didn't see it coming...

[Sam Odom]

Originally Posted by pags11

sam, you were right...I didn't see it coming...

admittedly I did NOT post my sentiments about Neteller here on SBR but I did on EOG. The chumps over there laughed at me Ken assured them Neteller was safe as a bank.


.

[aceking]

Neteller has paid the US customers . if not , where does the $55 million comes from ?

[NeedProtection]

The founders don't want to get indicted and don't care who they hurt to make that a reality.

The funny (sad?) thing is they all must of been confused and thought what they were doing is legal.

How stupid. You are on the Isle of Man or the Canary Islands or god knows where because why exactly?

No one in the most capitalistic, wealthiest economy (the United States) could figure your business model out.

It was sooooo advanced no one here understood it, but you were smart and made billions but just DECIDED to live on some ****ing island in the middle of nowhere FOR NO REASON.

Give me a break. They were always breaking the law, THAT IS WHY
THEY LIVE IN THESE PLACES. Because it is illegal. Someone getting arrested is irrelevant to the legality of your business when you live in the middle of the ocean.

[NeedProtection]

Originally Posted by aceking

Neteller has paid the US customers . if not , where does the $55 million comes from ?

Who said 55 million? In the BS press release they say under 50 million. WTF is that supposed to mean? They obfuscate and they lie. This is what they do. Under 50 million could mean ANYTHING.

[SBR_John]

I feel like that guy in Pulp Fiction over this

I'm far from ok. -Pulp Fiction

I'm going to give it another month. Then it will be time to hire a lawyer if they are still operating.

[increasedodds]

If I was neteller, I would tell US customers via email:

We will pay you the day the DOJ authorizes it. Here is the phone number for the DOJ.

-Sean

[David]

http://www.usdoj.gov/contact-us.html