I want refs judgement calls to be taken out of the game almost entirely...i want accountability and i want it to be robotic
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10-29-09 01:19 AM #36
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10-29-09 01:22 AM #37
So will this be sold in the fiction or non-fiction section........?
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10-29-09 01:38 AM #38
David Stern can go to hell his pompous ass...
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10-29-09 01:57 AM #39
Lmao, Iverson and Donaghy's exchange is golden.
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10-29-09 04:50 AM #40
interesting stuff
150ptsSBR POKER TOURNEY7th Place 5/29/2012
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10-29-09 06:21 AM #41
nothing fix do not panic these forums,!just hard work on game stats and you found a winner.there are many mmbers posting in nba forums you will tail them to found winner!
SBR Founder Join Date: 11/13/2005
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10-29-09 09:15 AM #42
I think some posters here are drawing conclusions, both ways, too hastily. Judging whether someone is lying or not based on he-said-she-said is not simple. You can't read minds. That said, after reading all the excerpts, I've moved from believing that Donaghy was most likely lying to most likely telling the truth. Here's some of what I'd expect if Donaghy was in fact telling the truth:
* I would expect some games, even important ones, to merely be poorly officiated by accident. This means that I wouldn't expect Donaghy to call out every controversial game or series as fixed.
* I would expect mention of a couple games no one's really thought about or easily forgot. This type of information is typically difficult to fabricate, more so the more random and detailed the story is.
* An "I don't care what you think, I'm just writing what happened" feel to his writing as opposed to appearing as if he's selling you something. Does he look desperate to get his point across? At least a fair bit subjective.
That last one might be shady, but the other two pass, based on those excerpts. Easier to draw conclusions after more comes out. Something no one has mentioned yet that can partly to mostly verify his statements, which I'm confident everyone would agree on is what were the spread/ML/total records in games he claimed that a ref or party of interest had something in it for or against a particular person/team? It's quite likely that someone's eventually going to do the homework on this and bring the results to public eye. If it ends up being just like 20 games and 60% covers, that doesn't necessarily mean anything, but if it's, say, 50+ games and 75%, that would be very telling.
I'll be looking at the NBA differently now, and partly other sports. You hear about MLB pitchers getting more strike calls? Hmmm.
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10-29-09 10:06 AM #43
The NBA might not be dictating outcomes, but when they consistently reward refs who are so biased like Dick Bavetta, they are essentially using a refs desire to be a "company man" to influence the outcome of the games.
Does anyone know who has reffed the most NBA games in history?
Dick BavettaSBR Founder Join Date: 8/10/2005
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10-29-09 10:30 AM #44
The NBA is fixed and has been forever. Every single game is rigged. Just look at the results so far on totals in the NBA season this year alone. If the game is going fast refs slow it down and start calling fouls. We just have to figure out which side the fix is on.
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10-29-09 10:31 AM #45
Obvious as shit to me.
The % of truth in his write-ups is not the most important part. What he describes is how human nature works and what goes on in most any work environment.
You know, in baseball you could argue that you only need one ump... the guy behind the plate. They got a crew of fat guys who basically wear their black uniforms and botch calls.... you put one guy in a booth with a computer and instant replay. I mean, seriously, you got a guy standing by a left field line and his job is pretty much to say... yep, to the right of the line.... nope, to the left of the line.
The guy in the Yankees game vs. Twins botched that call and he was staring right at it while he was fiddling with his tessicles on the left field line. Stevie Wonder wouldn't have missed that call.
And in the Angels game... dreadlocks gets both players out and the ump is right next to the guy .. all the while making fiddle-music with his tessicles in his pants pocket. Another call Stevie Wonder would have gotten right.
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10-29-09 10:40 AM #46
The funny thing is that most people know that some sporting events are fixed yet there will always be those idiots who say that no sports are fixed and for all of us "conspiracy theorists" to shut up. Will never end. You can have the ref walk up to these assholes and tell them to their face that the game is fixed and they would still not believe it. Just let those people go and live in their own world
175 pts3-QUESTION
SBR TRIVIA WINNER 05/17/2012175 pts3-QUESTION
SBR TRIVIA WINNER 05/24/2012
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10-29-09 10:53 AM #47
List some specific instances please?
Originally Posted by lakerboy
I just call... to say... I love you (do do do dodododo) Originally Posted by MilfDriller
It goes both ways. My grandfather says "the game's fixed" or some variant all the time, on every sport he watches. He bases this on the thinnest of evidence usually, and it's annoying. Lakerboy might be one such guy, we'll see. @Lakerboy: not insulting you yet, just saying it's possible you're a bit out there, pending your explanation ;-) Originally Posted by Stacocakes
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10-29-09 12:08 PM #48
Joey Crawford
SBR Founder Join Date: 8/10/2005
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10-29-09 12:12 PM #49
I dont think they are "fixed" as to which team will win a particular game. I do believe that they are "fixed" as to which team may get more calls, etc to perhaps try to extend a playoff series.
175 pts3-QUESTION
SBR TRIVIA WINNER 05/21/2012
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10-29-09 12:16 PM #50
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10-29-09 12:30 PM #51
Originally Posted by raydog
Originally Posted by onthewhat
every business and every job has dirty secrets to the trade that most people would not talk about. I do believe everything this crooked ex nba referee says. It is reality and everything is pretty much fixed.
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10-29-09 02:06 PM #52
dont buy it. too big of a league with too much to lose. i dont see it being widespread. these refs know if they ever were caught they'd be in prison with there livelihood gone like donaghy was.
i think you could see it in remote college games, especially basketball.
this whole league coverup conspiracy theory is crap though.
some people buy it, that's who he's selling it to, don't mean its legit though.
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10-29-09 02:26 PM #53
I stopped watching the backetball games after the best Jordan left the game.. Ever since then it aint the same!!!
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10-29-09 02:44 PM #54
Nothing new here.
He's taken concepts and ideas that have been thrown around for years and expands on them with information that can't be verified publicly one way or the other. There's no way to know if any of this is true. But two things:
Smart people run the NBA. Directing officials to purposefully alter outcomes is not smart. It's really, really, really, blatantly, obviously ****ing dumb. It's one thing to say officials can be manipulated and manipulate the games(Everybody already knows this is true). It's another to say they're doing so purposefully with coercion from the league.
As others have said, Donaghy wants to sell books. Enough said.
You can learn a lot by analyzing economic motivators in any situation.
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10-29-09 05:01 PM #55
[quote=dwaechte;2467267]Nothing new here. He's taken concepts and ideas that have been thrown around for years and expands on them with information that can't be verified publicly one way or the other. There's no way to know if any of this is true. [quote]Uhh, yes there is, at least partially. Read my first post in this thread.
You sort of contradict yourself here. Donaghy's claim is that refs are manipulated by factors sometimes that include subtle pressure from the higher ups.But two things: Smart people run the NBA. Directing officials to purposefully alter outcomes is not smart. It's really, really, really, blatantly, obviously ****ing dumb. It's one thing to say officials can be manipulated and manipulate the games(Everybody already knows this is true). It's another to say they're doing so purposefully with coercion from the league.
I believe someone said that profits can't be collected while in prison or something. Proof that he'd make [appreciable] money? I don't know one way or the other, not going to look up; just saying.As others have said, Donaghy wants to sell books. Enough said. You can learn a lot by analyzing economic motivators in any situation.
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10-29-09 05:03 PM #56
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10-29-09 05:21 PM #57
Football is just as bad as Basketball. Did you see the SEC officials hand Florida the game on the last drive with the 2 penalties that never happened? That was the same officiating crew that the week before called an excessive celebration on Georgia's AJ Green when he caught the go ahead TD with a little over a minute left. He gave 2 teammates high fives and they threw a flag. GA had to kickoff from the 15. LSU ran it back to GA territory. It directly led to LSU winning the game. Georgia would have won that game if not for that penalty. Originally Posted by DeluxeLiner
That officiating crew was suspended after the Florida game, I think they may have even fired them.
In the Dallas/Broncos game, Dallas had the ball with about 5 minutes left in the game. They broke a big run and the ref threw a flag on the tight end for holding, which he clearly did not. The guy he was blocking never had a play on Rashad Choice who went down the field into FG range. Not only did he not have a play but the contact between the 2 guys was a bump and there was no grabbing. Replay showed it. Dallas couldn't come back from that penalty and Denver won the game on the next drive. Dallas would have been able to kill the clock and kick a FG with no time left. It was a penalty that directly affected the outcome of the game. Dallas should have won the game.
Its worse than you guys think it is.
Georgia also lost to Oklahoma State because of a head to head 15 yard call on 3rd and long. The Georgia safety used his shoulder pad and hit the receiver in the stomach. That is 2 games just for the team I follow that should be reversed. Who knows how many more are out there. GA is 4-3 and should be 6-1.Last edited by WileOut; 10-29-09 at 05:25 PM.
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10-29-09 05:29 PM #58
Tennis, Golf, Volleyball, and racing are some sports that aren't influenced by refs much at all. Especially with the spot shot replay in tennis now.
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10-29-09 06:31 PM #59
I would love to see line movement analysis when umps/refs are announced at 2 times: privately and publicly. Anyone who has done this has probably already made a killing and will keep this info to himself. I remember equity research that showed how the stock movement shortly before a major announcement was a harbinger much more often than not. Insiders leaked info to their network and they would pounce.
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