[Halo]

Does anyone use an offshore account like in the Cayman Islands or Switzerland to use as their betting bank account? I am getting punished this year on taxes for gambling gains and I was just thinking about keeping my betting winnings elsewhere so I would not hit as bad.

[TLD]

I’m thinking about it as a way to facilitate deposits and withdrawals to books or money processors by bypassing American banks.

I’m not as tempted to use it as a way to cut down my tax bill. First—and I’m sure you realize this—it has zero implications on how much tax you’d owe; it only affects how easy or difficult it’ll be to cheat on what you owe. And it’s hardly a foolproof way of doing that, since for one thing, you have to get that money from the foreign bank account to you if you ever want to use it rather than just have it be pretty numbers on a computer monitor, and so you’d have to find some equally “hidden” way to do that. Also, you’re legally required to disclose all such foreign accounts above a certain amount anyway, so if you keep it secret, now you’ll be doubly bad off if you get caught—you’ll not only have underpaid your taxes, but you’ll also have violated this rule about disclosing foreign accounts.

Opens up a whole can of worms. Can’t say I’d recommend this route.

[Halo]

How much you win does affect your taxes. Well as long as it’s over 10k. This is profit (winnings-losses) not amount bet.

[The Judge]

Check out Offshore Companies House and thank me later.

[TLD]

Originally Posted by Halo

How much you win does affect your taxes. Well as long as it’s over 10k. This is profit (winnings-losses) not amount bet.

Of course how much you win affects your taxes. Not sure what you could possibly have interpreted in my post to be saying otherwise.

[bigloser]

Only 3 posts . Why do you guys respond

[Halo]

I'm sorry I don't have a lot of posts. I recently found this website. I have had no problems with the sites I go through until I reached max bets. So I started looking around the internet for other books that have larger limits which led me here. I found lots of valuable information here. I also read some interesting posts. However, can you explain this to me? How does that make my knowledge somehow worthless?

By not having a lot of posts I assume that somehow you having more than me makes you have a bigger e-peen?

[Jay Edgar]

Nothing personal, officer.
Hope you understand.

[Halo]

Originally Posted by The Judge

Check out Offshore Companies House and thank me later.

Sorry I forgot to thank you "The Judge" this is what I was looking for! However, you only have 17 posts so you obvoisly know nothing per TLD

[TLD]

Originally Posted by Halo

Sorry I forgot to thank you "The Judge" this is what I was looking for! However, you only have 17 posts so you obvoisly know nothing per TLD

I made no comment about the number of your posts.

[Halo]

Originally Posted by bigloser

Only 3 posts . Why do you guys respond

Justify that comment, I don't understand what you mean then. I read into it as: this user only has three posts (which I did at the time) ignore him. That is sure what it looked like.

Elaborate on what you meant please. I would rather not get off on the wrong foot before I take my second step in the SBR community.

[TLD]

I didn’t make that post. That is a different poster.

In no post did I comment on how many posts you have.

In no post did I say the amount of money you win will not affect your taxes.

In no post did I confuse amount bet with profit.

[vanzack]

Originally Posted by The Judge

Check out Offshore Companies House and thank me later.

Judge - have you used them and did you achieve your goal?

[louis]

Avoiding taxes is the least of our worries right now. The biggest problem is that it is getting more and more difficult to fund sportsbooks, and make withdrawals from sportsbooks, using U.S. domestic accounts.

First of all, the major ewallets - neteller and citadel, for example, no longer work with US accounts. Banks can easily identify ewallets that facilitate gaming funds transfer and block these transactions. The prosecutors in the US can easily freeze US domestic bank accounts the same way they frooze neteller's accounts.

I'm worried about having my bank account frozen, the same way my neteller account was frozen! I don't care about avoiding taxes.

This is the reason to get offshore accounts. Offshore accounts offer debit and credit cards that are almost impossible for a U.S. law, regulation, court, or authority to block. Further, sportsbooks can wire money to an offshore account, and the bank is under no regulation to block the transaction. If the sportsbook send you a foreign check - drawn on a bank outside the U.S., a domestic bank could still block it if it is on their list, but an offshore bank would be under no obligation to do this. Further, it is extremely unlikely a foreign bank would seize an account because of online gaming transactions, but only if that account is in a jurisdiction that would not find this suspicious.

The best places to get offshore bank accounts are jurisdictions such as the Cayman Islands, Bahamas, etc. etc., and then go ahead and declare every penny of taxes as the U.S. authorities are likely to go after the taxes, but not the gaming transactions since the funding is now perfectly legal according to the new law that just passed.

Right now there are no ewallets that service US residents with foreign accounts that I know of, but eventually some will emerge because there is a demand for this service. I would wait until ewallets emerge that service Americans with foreign accounts, before deciding which country in which to have the offshore account.

[louis]

Halo, you brought up an important topic - offshore bank accounts. Thank you for this, I don't care how many posts you have. Welcome to SBR. There is going to be so many posts on offshore accounts in the coming year, many of these forums will have a separate section for them.

[vanzack]

Originally Posted by louis

Avoiding taxes is the least of our worries right now. The biggest problem is that it is getting more and more difficult to fund sportsbooks, and make withdrawals from sportsbooks, using U.S. domestic accounts.

First of all, the major ewallets - neteller and citadel, for example, no longer work with US accounts. Banks can easily identify ewallets that facilitate gaming funds transfer and block these transactions. The prosecutors in the US can easily freeze US domestic bank accounts the same way they frooze neteller's accounts.

I'm worried about having my bank account frozen, the same way my neteller account was frozen! I don't care about avoiding taxes.

This is the reason to get offshore accounts. Offshore accounts offer debit and credit cards that are almost impossible for a U.S. law, regulation, court, or authority to block. Further, sportsbooks can wire money to an offshore account, and the bank is under no regulation to block the transaction. If the sportsbook send you a foreign check - drawn on a bank outside the U.S., a domestic bank could still block it if it is on their list, but an offshore bank would be under no obligation to do this. Further, it is extremely unlikely a foreign bank would seize an account because of online gaming transactions, but only if that account is in a jurisdiction that would not find this suspicious.

The best places to get offshore bank accounts are jurisdictions such as the Cayman Islands, Bahamas, etc. etc., and then go ahead and declare every penny of taxes as the U.S. authorities are likely to go after the taxes, but not the gaming transactions since the funding is now perfectly legal according to the new law that just passed.

Right now there are no ewallets that service US residents with foreign accounts that I know of, but eventually some will emerge because there is a demand for this service. I would wait until ewallets emerge that service Americans with foreign accounts, before deciding which country in which to have the offshore account.

OK now we are getting somewhere. I totally am on the same page as you. I would want to open and offshore account for the same reasons, not to hide taxes but to let me fund and receive funds from books legally and easily.

So this is the long and the short of it, as I understand it:

1. It is legal to have an offshore bank account as long as you report it to the IRS and pay taxes on the income.

2. There is nothing in the new gambling bill that makes a bettor who has an offshore account a criminal. There is no responsibility on the bettor for anything in the new law.

3. In order to get an offshore bank account, you have to set up and IBC (international business company).

4. Once you have an IBC, you can get a bank account in many places in the world, not only the place where your IBC is registered.

So basically your new offshore bank account becomes your new neteller account. You wire funds to and from books from your offshore account with no problems, no freezes, no suspicious activity, not even a funny look from a teller.

You report the income on your taxes and file the account with the IRS. Chances are higher that you will be audited but if you are reporting then it shouldnt matter.

I see this as a simple business expense these days. 1,300 to set up the IBC, 500 to set up the bank account, and about 600 per year to keep it going. And for that, you get a ticket to no problems transferring money. And it is all absolutely 100% legal.

Do I have this right? Anyone done this?

[Halo]

Originally Posted by TLD

I didn’t make that post. That is a different poster.

Sorry TLD my bad it was big loser

[TLD]

Excellent contribution by Louis.

Vanzack, I believe your #1 and #2 are correct. I suspect #3 isn’t. Already posters have spoken of driving over the border to Canada and opening bank accounts with little difficulty. I’d be very surprised if you have to spend $1,800 and then $600 a year just to have a bank account outside the U.S. that you can use for sportsbook transactions. I’ll certainly be a lot less inclined to do it if it costs more than a tiny fraction of that.

The non-U.S. bank account will help, but for many purposes—being able to play at Pinnacle and several other useful books, being able to use money transfer companies, etc.—ideally one would want to go beyond that to establish a non-U.S. residence.

I’d like to see some discussion of just how feasible that is (without genuinely moving out of the country, that is).

[vanzack]

Originally Posted by TLD

Excellent contribution by Louis.

Vanzack, I believe your #1 and #2 are correct. I suspect #3 isn’t. Already posters have spoken of driving over the border to Canada and opening bank accounts with little difficulty. I’d be very surprised if you have to spend $1,800 and then $600 a year just to have a bank account outside the U.S. that you can use for sportsbook transactions. I’ll certainly be a lot less inclined to do it if it costs more than a tiny fraction of that.

The non-U.S. bank account will help, but for many purposes—being able to play at Pinnacle and several other useful books, being able to use money transfer companies, etc.—ideally one would want to go beyond that to establish a non-U.S. residence.

I’d like to see some discussion of just how feasible that is (without genuinely moving out of the country, that is).

On Pinnacles change of country form, they require:

1. A utility bill, medical bill, telephone bill, or property receipt.
2. Official photo ID. Passport or drivers license.
(all addresses have to be the same)

How can anyone get a passport or DL with an address at a Pack and Ship? Doesnt sound possible.

[vanzack]

Originally Posted by TLD

Excellent contribution by Louis.

Vanzack, I believe your #1 and #2 are correct. I suspect #3 isn’t. Already posters have spoken of driving over the border to Canada and opening bank accounts with little difficulty. I’d be very surprised if you have to spend $1,800 and then $600 a year just to have a bank account outside the U.S. that you can use for sportsbook transactions. I’ll certainly be a lot less inclined to do it if it costs more than a tiny fraction of that.

The non-U.S. bank account will help, but for many purposes—being able to play at Pinnacle and several other useful books, being able to use money transfer companies, etc.—ideally one would want to go beyond that to establish a non-U.S. residence.

I’d like to see some discussion of just how feasible that is (without genuinely moving out of the country, that is).

And also, Im not sure I have seen anyone confirm that they have driven to canada and opened an account. I have heard many have had troubles, and that the only accounts that can be opened are the US divisions of canadian owned banks.

Can anyone confirm or deny this? Im not sure....

[louis]

Originally Posted by vanzack

OK now we are getting somewhere. I totally am on the same page as you. I would want to open and offshore account for the same reasons, not to hide taxes but to let me fund and receive funds from books legally and easily.

So this is the long and the short of it, as I understand it:

1. It is legal to have an offshore bank account as long as you report it to the IRS and pay taxes on the income.

Yes it is legal. The IRS may want to know why you opened the account. Some people open accounts in places where they hope to retire some day - such as Costa Rica, Cayman Islands, Bahamas. Not illegal at all.

2. There is nothing in the new gambling bill that makes a bettor who has an offshore account a criminal. There is no responsibility on the bettor for anything in the new law.

If you transfer money from a foreign bank to a sportsbook, you can be more secure that you are not taking part in an illegal transaction.

3. In order to get an offshore bank account, you have to set up and IBC (international business company).

Absolutely not. The reason to set up a company is to make the account more anonymous for purposes of avoiding taxes.
You can open up a personal account in your name only. In fact the bank will be less suspisious of you because you are not trying to hide anything.

4. Once you have an IBC, you can get a bank account in many places in the world, not only the place where your IBC is registered.

It is not easy to open up an account offshore, but it can be done. It doesn't necessarily help to have an IBC. What helps is to have references from your bank here in the U.S. that you have a long term satisfactory relationship with you. Requirements vary by country.


So basically your new offshore bank account becomes your new neteller account. You wire funds to and from books from your offshore account with no problems, no freezes, no suspicious activity, not even a funny look from a teller.

Well it is hard to say there won't be any "problems". For example books like CRIS refuse to wire less than $10K - so that's a problem.

The best way to send funds to a book is using a VISA card that is attached to the account. Doing a lot of wires is actually going to be suspisious to the bank.

What you need to do is convince the bank that you are not involved in money laundering or illegal activities. So you want to open up an offshore account in a location in which online gaming is legal for the residents who live there and then do the online gaming using the same ewallets that the residents use. Wiring does not seem like a great idea because it is susiscious to have wires of large amounts going in and out.

I would also try to use the account for other purposes other than gaming. So finding a bank with a correspondent bank in the US would be useful. Then you can write checks that can clear using the federal reserve system. Also having non gaming income come in would be useful.

I see this as a simple business expense these days. 1,300 to set up the IBC, 500 to set up the bank account, and about 600 per year to keep it going. And for that, you get a ticket to no problems transferring money. And it is all absolutely 100% legal.

Not necessary and too complicated to set up an IBC. Do not have to pay $500 to set up a bank account. Simply travel to the Cayman islands or the Bahamas or Costa Rica or Panama and set it up. This is better because you can shop for the best account and banks would strongly prefer to know who they are dealing with.

Yes all of this is legal in my opinion but I AM NOT A LAWYER. Online gaming may not be legal depending on what state you live in. And in this country you can be arrested even when you have not broken any laws, so it is best not to draw attention to yourself, period, even with legal activities.

Do I have this right? Anyone done this?

I am going to do it sometime this year but I want to wait and see if ewallets are willing to work with US residents with foreign bank accounts, what countries the ewallets can do transers with that are not wires, and in what countries online gaming is legal with the citizens who live there.

x

[louis]

According to banking regulations, and almost all the banks websites, one needs Canadian ID to open up a bank account at a Canadian bank. There is a list of acceptable Canadian ID, and this list includes the type of things US residents do not have such as Canadian Driver's license, Immigration VISA documents, Canadian Passports. How many of you guys have these?

Having said that, for whatever reason banks in Windsor seem to be going ahead and opening up accounts for folks with US passports and driver's licenses. I called some of these banks and they claim they will do it.

It seems to me that either there is a loophole in the regulations that allows these banks in what is really a suburb of Detroit to do this, or these banks are just being lax and not following the regulations correctly.

The only problem with these accounts is that the bank may quickly discover that the account was opened for purposes of gaming and that the account is not being used how others use these accounts - to pay rent, bills, etc. etc.

Secondly, ewallets such as neteller want a Canadian address. Can you get a Canadian driver's license with a Canadian address? Sure, but you must sign an application declaring that you reside at this address - and it is a major crime to lie on this application. Not a risk that I'm willing to take.

There are too many countries out there, such as Costa Rica, where one can get a license without having to be a resident, that I'm going to go to Canada and try to trick people into thinking I have moved there.

[vanzack]

Originally Posted by louis

According to banking regulations, and almost all the banks websites, one needs Canadian ID to open up a bank account at a Canadian bank. There is a list of acceptable Canadian ID, and this list includes the type of things US residents do not have such as Canadian Driver's license, Immigration VISA documents, Canadian Passports. How many of you guys have these?

Having said that, for whatever reason banks in Windsor seem to be going ahead and opening up accounts for folks with US passports and driver's licenses. I called some of these banks and they claim they will do it.

It seems to me that either there is a loophole in the regulations that allows these banks in what is really a suburb of Detroit to do this, or these banks are just being lax and not following the regulations correctly.

The only problem with these accounts is that the bank may quickly discover that the account was opened for purposes of gaming and that the account is not being used how others use these accounts - to pay rent, bills, etc. etc.

Secondly, ewallets such as neteller want a Canadian address. Can you get a Canadian driver's license with a Canadian address? Sure, but you must sign an application declaring that you reside at this address - and it is a major crime to lie on this application. Not a risk that I'm willing to take.

There are too many countries out there, such as Costa Rica, where one can get a license without having to be a resident, that I'm going to go to Canada and try to trick people into thinking I have moved there.

You can get a DL in costa rica without having to be a resident? Meaning I could fly to San Jose and go to the DL bureau and just get a DL?

[trustbutverify]

Excellent thread. I'd like to see more info on arranging the elements necessary to use pinny and the other big euro books from US soil.

[louis]

From what I understand, you need:

1) unexpired valid US driver's license
2) valid passport
3) medical certificate (you get this in costa rica by visiting a doctor licenses to provide this certification)
4) visa (you get this when you arrive at the airport - americans don't need a visa to visit)
5) address in Costa Rica

You have to reside at the address that you give even if only temporary for the 90 day period allowed with the tourist visa.

Warning: I have never done this, I have just heard that this is what you need, and research on the internet confirms that it is this easy to get one. You may have to sign something that says you live there.

[durito]

Originally Posted by trustbutverify

Excellent thread. I'd like to see more info on arranging the elements necessary to use pinny and the other big euro books from US soil.

Pinnacle is requiring:

1) Identification from new country of residence (they want a drivers license or passport)

2) Utility bill with your new address (in most latin american countries this is actually harder to get than the id, you generally have to own property to get utilities in your name)

3) Your new banking info


I doubt they will let you set up an account if you are still playing from a US IP address.

I intend to set this up legally once I've settled somewhere in South America.

[louis]

If you actually rent an apartment, even if the owner gets the utility bill, a copy of the lease showing your name and address should be enough to convince Pinnacle, don't you think?

[Zerlinco]

Offshore bank accounts are nice. Many offer a Debit Visa/Mastercard Cards that can be used anywhere in the world. ATM withdraws and purchases.

I would personally find the countries that have offshore banks and contact the bank personally, don't go through an agency.

Just a piece of advice.

[Ganchrow]

Originally Posted by vanzack

1. A utility bill, medical bill, telephone bill, or property receipt.
2. Official photo ID. Passport or drivers license.
(all addresses have to be the same)

How can anyone get a passport or DL with an address at a Pack and Ship? Doesnt sound possible.

Actually, Pinnacle only requires the address on item #1 to match the new country of residence. Item #2 can be US issued document.

Originally Posted by Pinnacle Sports Residency Verification

It is OK to submit your US Passport – this is just to verify the name on your utility bill and Pinnacle Sports account.

When you submit your utility bill, Residency Confirmation Form and ID, your documentation will be reviewed and a response will be e-mailed to you with a confirmation on the status of your account.

Please ensure all documentation is scanned and clearly legible so that we can confirm your name and address details.

[louis]

Seems easy enough to convince pinnacle, then. Can easily go to Canada and get a medical bill with a Canadian address, if that is all they want - just stay at a hotel and give the doctor's office the address of the hotel.

This is fine. What gets one in trouble is giving the driver's license bureau in Canada a false address.

The problem with getting permission to use Pinnacle again is not coming up with the documentation, but the risk that one day they may seize your account for investigation because some manager has discovered you may not be living in Canada.

And although Pinnacle is an A+ book, those who bet large amounts, and request large withdrawals, may have their accounts reviewed often and it may be tempting to freeze a very large withdrawal if there is the slightest suspision someone did not really make a Canadian move.

[jumper]

this thread does alot of service to those also trying to solve the neteller puzzle.trying to decide between canada or costa rica to set up residency.very large $ at stake,worth uprooting my life over.is it easy to open costa rican bank acct,then transfer big $ into.if canada,seems first step is find someone advertising for a roommate,establish residence,get drivers liscense and canadian bank acct,then when all the money from neteller is in canadian bank go home.maybe buy gold coins or set up swiss acct and wire transfer.any canadians know whats involved with the drivers liscense-some written test,etc

[Halo]

I used to have a bank account in Canada a few years back, and I live in Detroit. I was playing blackjack and could not lose. I ended up with more than 10k. The pitboss at Windsor casino helped me set one up though. What happens is you have to declare the money when coming back over to the US side. Anything over 10k you get taxed on. The reason for it is you can make a few trips (obviously the casino wants you back because the longer your there the odds turn to their favor). However, by making multiple trips back to the US you can avoid the taxes.

The problem with Canada is they are so into cahoots with the US I could see getting ****ed really easy. All this considered you can still get a PO Box in Canada. I would suspect you could use this as your Driver's Lic. address. Go to a doctor and have them send a bill to your PO Box. Obviously the only people that could do this are people close to the border though. Still I will defiantly look into it the next time I go over. They are remodeling their casino and they just put in a Sportsbook! Me and some friends were going to go down for March Madness.

[louis]

Don't have to establish bank account and residency in the same place. Many Costa RIcans use overseas banks, as domestic banks are not seen as safe as US, Bahamian and Cayman Island banks.

ANother option rather than emptying neteller to a bank account is to establish residency then start using neteller again to fund sportsbooks, then move back to US, can't use neteller any more, so ask the sportsbook to pay differently - but take the money out gradually.

An overseas bank is going to be very suspicious of a large influx of cash, and then a large withdrawal of that same cash.

[jumper]

thanks alot for the timely help.i was using neteller largely as my secret stash.i should have opened an ibc long time ago.am working on that now.i believe neteller is leaving an out by being able to register acct in another country,but that if one waits too long and this goes through justice dept,large acct holders will be screwed.good luck to everyone

[louis]

Who knows what is going to happen. All that I know is that in order to take advantage of neteller's window of opportunity here to register overseas, one must REALLY move overseas and reside there. There is going to be some smart people at neteller investigating and verifying, and anyone trying to trick neteller into thinking they reside somewhere they don't is going to end up with nothing, so for those who are going to "move" I would really do it.

I actually think there is a good chance that neteller will eventually pay up. I say this because they have the money and want to pay, and the DOJ seems more interested in those that are "in the business of gaming", to use the terms from the wire act, rather than the individual bettors.