[Justin7]

3 players had their accounts zeroed. Downgrade?

[fiveteamer]

With Betfair buying TVG, they hope to gain a foothold in the American market. They better cut this shit out ASAP.

[InTheHole]

Downgrade to D

[Karayilan9]

Weird stuff, what do they have to gain from taking customers funds they are an exchange and make money off the commission. Also why are they taking such small amounts, there are people wagering hundreds of thousands on dubious Russian tennis games and dodgy horse races all the time but they're taking money off small time customers.

I hope they sort this out. Its a shame that there is not much competition in the betting exchanges, it would be great for the industry if a few more stepped up and made Betfair more careful and considerate of customers.

[Ayn]

Betfair has been going downhill, they don't want people to win big and have them cash out so that they loose possible commission or funds that could have been lost in the casino.

[headgames]

Tony Blair! Surely it's Tony Calvin who heads up media. If the players are saying they have done nothing wrong, shouldn't they report the it to the Gambling Commission? The only cases I've read about where they closed accounts related to players abusing bonuses with multiple signups and referrals.

[noyb]

Betfair has been going downhill, they don't want people to win big and have them cash out so that they loose possible commission or funds that could have been lost in the casino.

this argument obviously doesn't relate to these cases at all, since betfair has taken 100-1000 euro per account. there are a significant number of customers with 10s of k's in their betfair-accounts, so it's not like they're taking money from the big boys here.

i'm sure betfair has some serious suspicions in closing these particular accounts, but refusing to inform players what they are being accused of is ridiculous ofcourse. it's not something that's happening exclusively at betfair, if you look at the complaints that come up on the sbr forum it's very often a case of a book simply unwilling to discuss why the funds were confiscated. very often the story of the person who started the thread is dodgy to put it mildly, and the book might have a valid reason (altough imo there's hardly ever a valid reason to keep the funds), but they should at least be willing to prove their case, otherwise it's theft regardless of the circumstances.

[Ayn]

this argument obviously doesn't relate to these cases at all, since betfair has taken 100-1000 euro per account. there are a significant number of customers with 10s of k's in their betfair-accounts, so it's not like they're taking money from the big boys here.

Thats not what I was suggesting, but from what I've been hearing Betfair has been doing some changes and there are more coming. To me they are not what they once were.

[Justin7]

Tony Blair! Surely it's Tony Calvin who heads up media. If the players are saying they have done nothing wrong, shouldn't they report the it to the Gambling Commission? The only cases I've read about where they closed accounts related to players abusing bonuses with multiple signups and referrals.

Yes, Tony Calvin. If I said Blair, I was mistaken. I need one of those vid monitors to remind me what to say

[Dark Horse]

Huh. The pride that comes before the fall. Not the first successful company that suddenly imagines itself above the law.

And I doubt that this is limited to three cases that found SBR. Where there's smoke there's fire.

If they steal money, they're an F book. And they're not even a book, but an exchange... lol Rate 'm Z.

[Santo]

My usual response with these cases (without knowing the intricate details) is that if they had a case, they'd take it to IBAS / Gambling Commission. The fact they chose to come to SBR suggests to me that they have something they don't want to come out, and thus hope (mistakenly) that SBR has the peer pressure to force them into paying.

Betfair have no obligation to communicate with SBR, they are regulated under UK law. Additionally, they have data protection obligations that simply don't apply to the offshore books usually under SBR's remit.

I completely disagree with the suggestion of a downgrade to F, and it certainly won't impact on my betting activity with them.

[FreeFall]

Thanks Justin for the information. You've always been a valuable asset to SBR. Glad to know that my money is safe at the books I have it which luckily isn't betfair.

Keep up the good work!

[fiveteamer]

Santo, are you saying Betfair has no obligation to state the facts as to why the accounts were closed?

I think this is what Justin is saying here.

These guys could very well be as guilty as sin. Ok, great, show us.

[BTTNext]

Downgrade to D

+1

[purecarnagge]

where is the downgrade?

[Teddy_KGB]

I have sent an email to Betfair, with the link of Justin's video, and I asked how do I know that you won't close my account too, without any explanation, I'm curious what will they reply.

[aggieshawn]

scary that they can keep your money so easy. i would have to "visit" tony if he did that to me.
russian style visit.

[tltaylor89]

Yeah Justin I would have to pay them a visit to with my glock in one hand and my Mp5 in the other.(Drop their as sess down to an F)

[Hohol15]

Hope SBR will not turn to another pocket forum if not already is.
Everybody knows that some posts are fiction.
So Justin, it would be better if you tell at least the legend of all these 3 players and where did they play (poker, casino. sportsbook). I appreciate your work greatly, but sometimes I am not sure whether this is not the part of the anti-marketing company... Thank's!

[Skalatharx]

time to change back to matchy

[Hohol15]

You can't compare matchbook with betfair.
e.g. I bet on tennis games handicap and total match games.
I can't find this one in Matchb. As well as a lot of players to bet against!!!

[chance]

We must as players support Matchbook and Betdaq so that Betfair doesn't continue these monopoly power decisions. Premium charges and confiscation will not happen when they have a decent rival!!

[Skalatharx]

You can't compare matchbook with betfair.
e.g. I bet on tennis games handicap and total match games.
I can't find this one in Matchb. As well as a lot of players to bet against!!!

screw betfair if they start this kind of shit, then let them hang. They are a bunch of arrogant fcks anyway.

If more people cross over to the other exchanges then they will improve.

[Skalatharx]

Hope SBR will not turn to another pocket forum if not already is.
Everybody knows that some posts are fiction.
So Justin, it would be better if you tell at least the legend of all these 3 players and where did they play (poker, casino. sportsbook). I appreciate your work greatly, but sometimes I am not sure whether this is not the part of the anti-marketing company... Thank's!

how long have you worked for betfair?

[AimingHigh]

I agree with Santo. Whilst Betfair SHOULD provide an explanation, the players should appeal via IBAS and the Gambling Commission. If the players have done nothing wrong, they will get their funds back. Although it shouldn't be that way around (ie. it should be reasons first, then seizure if necessary), that's the way that at least some of the big gambling-related companies operate in the UK, Betfair and Moneybookers to name two.

I was also interested in the fact that Justin mentioned Euros each time: are all 3 players from the same country? Perhaps there is a localised issue?

[Santo]

Santo, are you saying Betfair has no obligation to state the facts as to why the accounts were closed?

I think this is what Justin is saying here.

These guys could very well be as guilty as sin. Ok, great, show us.

They have no obligation to tell SBR (or us). They do have an obligation to tell the player - however there are a few cases where possibly they are unable to share specifics - for example their sports corruption units have agreements with sport governing bodies, so the specific market may need to be kept under wraps if it's part of an ongoing legal/disciplinary investigation.

Again, if the player feels wronged, there are legitimate avenues for them to follow who are binding on Betfair. SBR aren't, and so I suspect the player knows they're in the wrong and would lose in binding arbitration, thus are hoping SBR will put pressure on and they can benefit from full facts not being disclosed.

[noyb]

I was also interested in the fact that Justin mentioned Euros each time: are all 3 players from the same country? Perhaps there is a localised issue?

altough they could theoretically be from the same country, a majority of europe plays in euro, so that in itself says nothing.

i agree betfair doesn't have to tell sbr anything. the way i understood justin's argument, betfair should tell the players and they haven't done that. ofcourse contacting the Gambling Commission is the obvious next step, but Betfair, being an example in the industry, should handle cases like this better from the start.

[Dark Horse]

They have no obligation to tell SBR (or us). They do have an obligation to tell the player - however there are a few cases where possibly they are unable to share specifics - for example their sports corruption units have agreements with sport governing bodies, so the specific market may need to be kept under wraps if it's part of an ongoing legal/disciplinary investigation.

Again, if the player feels wronged, there are legitimate avenues for them to follow who are binding on Betfair. SBR aren't, and so I suspect the player knows they're in the wrong and would lose in binding arbitration, thus are hoping SBR will put pressure on and they can benefit from full facts not being disclosed.

If SBR has the scoop on this, why should they not use their leverage? That leverage is to encourage or discourage players to play somewhere. SBR has no legal power anywhere, but they do reach where it hurts. The pocket book.

[Justin7]

I was also interested in the fact that Justin mentioned Euros each time: are all 3 players from the same country? Perhaps there is a localised issue?

There's no obvious connection between the 3 players.

[Justin7]

i agree betfair doesn't have to tell sbr anything. the way i understood justin's argument, betfair should tell the players and they haven't done that. ofcourse contacting the Gambling Commission is the obvious next step, but Betfair, being an example in the industry, should handle cases like this better from the start.

From Betfair's T&C:

Betting Disputes
If you have a betting or gaming dispute in relation to one of our products or markets, which you believe that Betfair has not satisfactorily resolved, you can approach IBAS (The Independent Betting Adjudication Service). IBAS is a third party organisation offering independent adjudication in relation to betting and gaming disputes.



I don't think this is a betting or gaming dispute (but who knows since Betfair won't tell the player what the issue is?). I don't think IBAS would have jurisdiction here.

[Dark Horse]

There's no obvious connection between the 3 players.

lol. "You're from Germany? I've been there! Do you know Peter?"

[noyb]

I don't think IBAS would have jurisdiction here.

regardless whether they do or don't have jurisdiction, i wouldn't take this to IBAS either, but go straight to the UK Gambling Commission.

[AimingHigh]

There's no obvious connection between the 3 players.

Thanks Justin. Do you know if the players used the same product or products (casino, games, sportsbook, etc.)? Or deposit and withdrawal methods? I didn't mean to suggest that the players were connected individuals, but that there might be a common matter which has triggered the same bizarre seizures. So if 2 players had used the sportsbook only, and the 3rd also played a lot of poker, it seems to suggest that it shouldn't be about chip dumping.

I suppose it's possible that each had his/her account locked and funds seized for a different reason, but to have 3 known cases over a short time period when Betfair certainly isn't known for this practice suggests a commonality might also be possible.

[Ganesh]

I hope that situation will have an explanation.