[SBR_John]

WWTS - No problems there. None of the Antigua books are going anywhere they at least have the blessing of Antigua where they operate.

Heritage - No problems there. I trust the ownership and so does the rest of the gaming world.

Wagerweb? I'd get out of this one.

[imgv94]

What is the blessing of Antigua?

[SBR_John]

Antigua is the only country fighting the US. Even here in Costa Rica where so much of this industry is located, the government here wouldn't know what a back bone was if it hit them in the head. Have you ever heard of Costa Rica taking the US to the WTO? Uh...

[Patrick McIrish]

Are there a lot of books operating out of Antiqua John? Offhand I know WSEX and WWTS are and I know there are others, are they listed somewhere by jurisdiction for easy reference? My memory has gone long ago unfortunately, thanks.

[pags11]

I'm with four A rated books (some A-):

pinnacle
betcris
betjamaica
cascade

and matchbook (B+)...I'm confident my money is still good there...

great thread here...

[imgv94]

Superb thread right here. SBR JOHN is solid..

[tblues2005]

Am I safe with BetJamaica and TheGreek SBRJohn? I just want to make sure or should I go with the ones in Antigua?

I have a very close friend that has an account with ehorse, do you advise him to close out now?

Thanks.

[pags11]

tblues,

I know I'm not john, but you should be fine...

[SBR_John]

TBlues, of course TheGreek owns both and both are very solid. This owner at one time was the #2 money guy in the biz on my own presonal wealth list. I'd peg him at 5th now and that's a whole lot of the green stuff. Plus, this is an old world guy that would sell a kidney before he'd slow pay anyone.

REMEMBER GUYS,

If I have talked you away from a Bestline or Wagerweb or whoever, its only temporary. Let's stay with the top shelf until we see the damage from this storm. Lets see how everyone pays. When the dust settles you will very likely be able to return to the non top shelf books.

[tblues2005]

Originally Posted by SBR_John

TBlues, of course TheGreek owns both and both are very solid. This owner at one time was the #2 money guy in the biz on my own presonal wealth list. I'd peg him at 5th now and that's a whole lot of the green stuff. Plus, this is an old world guy that would sell a kidney before he'd slow pay anyone.

REMEMBER GUYS,

If I have talked you away from a Bestline or Wagerweb or whoever, its only temporary. Let's stay with the top shelf until we see the damage from this storm. Lets see how everyone pays. When the dust settles you will very likely be able to return to the non top shelf books.

SBRJohn,

Do you know alot about ehorse and if they are ok? I supposed to talk with a good friend in the afternoon and tell him if he should pull out from them, thanks.

[Odds-Hunter]

what about The PIG John ?

Thanks

[SBR_John]

eHorse is ok in normal times which these are not. Out.

Pig is a Legendz owned book. You are fine there. Some of these books like I mentioned with ABC are actually no weaker because of this law becuase of their other businesses which do not rely on banks and money processors. Legendz falls into this group. Already strong, and nothing changes here.

[jjgold]

EHorse lost lots of business to Pinny the last 1.5 years and does not have the active betting base it once did.

They are still solid though

[darkghost]

I've got money in both DSI & CRIS. Is DSI backed by CRIS?

[junah]

John, I have some money in Intertops. Any suggestions? Should I pull out or stay?

Thanks

Junah

[Revere14]

Summary from SBR_John:

* = only IMPLIED, not specifically mentioned by John

SAFE BOOKS AT THIS TIME ARE:

5Dimes
ABC/Jazz/Looselines (land based casinos, plenty of $)
*Bet365 (but cant play from US)
*Betfair (but cant play from US)
*Bodog (costa rica but plenty of $)
*Bowmans (uk)
Canbet/iasbet (uk)
Cascade/DelMar (costa rica but plenty of $)
CRIS/DSI/etc (costa rica but plenty of $)
*Eurobet (but cant play from US)
*Gamebookers (but cant play from US)
*Grande (costa rica but plenty of $)
Heritage
*Intertops (antigua)
*Ladbrokes (but cant play if from US)
Legendz/ThePig (panama)
Mansion (somewhere in asia)
*Olympic/BetJamaica/wagerstreet (jamaica plenty of $)
Pinnacle (caracau plenty of $)
Rio/Skybook (costa rica)
*VIP/Gameday/Nine (caracau plenty of $)
*William Hill (but cant play from US)
*WSEX/Matchbook (antigua)
WWTS (antigua)

LOWER YOUR BALANCES AT:

*BetMania
Carib
FirstFidelity/YouWager/Vietbet
SIA
Tradesports

GET YOUR MONEY OUT QUICKLY:

Bestline
*BetBug
*BetEd
*BetUs
*Catalina
*Horizon/BetAtlas
LasPalmas/EHorse
*Royal/Lay107
*SBG Global
*Sportbet/Island
Sportingbet books
*Tradewinds/JustBet
Trojan/TopCat
Wagerweb/Casablanca

* = only IMPLIED, not specifically mentioned by John

Revere14

[BuddyBear]

John what about LionSportsbook? Am I safe there still? Thanks John....

[rolemand]

I have a hard time believing I'm in jeopardy at Hollywood or SBUSA. Maybe I'm ignorant. I did take half my balance out of Betguardian.

[sirhcool]

what about wagerstreet. i love the software.

[DamianDunlap]

wagerstreet is own by the greek. Thanks for the info people

[Yoshi]

tbh i disagree with John on WWTS, this book isnt anymore what it was, and the stock went downhill as far as i know too.

[TLD]

Last night I put in for a withdrawal for what I had left (other than futures) at my two Sportingbet family books.

I’d be curious about John’s (or others’) best guess as to the immediate future of the Sportingbet books. Is it most likely they will:

1. Stop taking Americans and keep all the money (a la BOS),

2. Stop taking Americans and pay them all what is in their accounts, or

3. Continue to take Americans, i.e., business as usual?

Also, if it turns out to be #2 and an American has one or more pending futures, is it more likely they will cancel those futures and include that money in what is returned to the customer, or wait for those futures to be decided, grade them normally, and then settle with the customer?

[LGBoots]

Originally Posted by TLD

Last night I put in for a withdrawal for what I had left (other than futures) at my two Sportingbet family books.

I’d be curious about John’s (or others’) best guess as to the immediate future of the Sportingbet books. Is it most likely they will:

1. Stop taking Americans and keep all the money (a la BOS),

2. Stop taking Americans and pay them all what is in their accounts, or

3. Continue to take Americans, i.e., business as usual?

Also, if it turns out to be #2 and an American has one or more pending futures, is it more likely they will cancel those futures and include that money in what is returned to the customer, or wait for those futures to be decided, grade them normally, and then settle with the customer?

Worse case scenario (IMO) would be 2. There is no way SportingBet will stiff you

Hopefully they will ignore this stupid bill & carry on business as usual

[Bill Dozer]

Originally Posted by TLD

Last night I put in for a withdrawal for what I had left (other than futures) at my two Sportingbet family books.

I’d be curious about John’s (or others’) best guess as to the immediate future of the Sportingbet books. Is it most likely they will:

1. Stop taking Americans and keep all the money (a la BOS),

2. Stop taking Americans and pay them all what is in their accounts, or

3. Continue to take Americans, i.e., business as usual?

Also, if it turns out to be #2 and an American has one or more pending futures, is it more likely they will cancel those futures and include that money in what is returned to the customer, or wait for those futures to be decided, grade them normally, and then settle with the customer?

The Sportingbet books would be the first ones getting my withdrawal requests.

Many of these books are not part of the traded SBT or even under the Sportingbet license as their sites say. They have turnkey agreements. Some are under World Gaming or a third company license that allowed them to use different poker networks.

The turnkeys who have been investing in US marketing are panicking right now and you can bet they are looking for other places to move their site. Sportingbet is talking about how they could live on without 60% the current base. For these US-focused subsites, its 100%. Sportingbet would wipe them out. Dimeplayer was an example of a book that picked up and left Sportingbet over night. Luckily for players, their owner could pay despite being offline days and then trying out the IGS scammers. This was all before their move to Panama. Sportingbet operates the backends but there is still a url owner who controls where the player balances go.

Sportingbet still processes a large part of their US deposits through credit card. They have been able to get around the gaming code by processing them through different vendor codes. Most don't rely on cards and won't be affected by the credit card aspect but SBT and their EFS probably will.

BOS had almost zero income outside of the US. Sportingbet does, and they speak English. Their UK players are listening. If you do decide to keep money there, keep with the major brands like PlayersOnly, Hollywood, Sportsbook, Sportingbet and BetUSA & Gambling.net, which has UK sportsbooks that use Finsoft under SBT. I wouldn't suggest players go looking for any good futures there.

[Santo]

Bill: And what is the latest SBR thinking on Trojan/Top Cat John alluded to above?

If you do decide to keep money there, keep with the major brands like PlayersOnly, Hollywood, Sportsbook, Sportingbet and BetUSA & Gambling.net, which has UK sportsbooks that use Finsoft under SBT.

Agree with that..

[Bill Dozer]

Originally Posted by Santo

Bill: And what is the latest SBR thinking on Trojan/Top Cat John alluded to above?



Agree with that..

TopCat and Trojan's ratings look good at C and C+. Reassessing the industry as a whole might mean leveling off at C. This is mostly a credit book and they wouldn't risk what they have to stiff a small % of post-up players. That said, we are talking about a book that is fairly new to post-up and has had trouble finding its niche. A C rating is obvioulsy not a recommendation but the 'runs on the bank' by depositing players should not have a material affect.

[Santo]

That was my opinion before reading John's stuff above, I thought you'd heard something nasty.

Thanks for the re-affirmation. I'll continue to use them for a small % of bankroll.

[Bill Dozer]

Originally Posted by darkghost

I've got money in both DSI & CRIS. Is DSI backed by CRIS?

Yes, these books are backed by CRIS(http://www.sportsbookreview.com/Rati...=Relation#CRIS)

[Chuck Sims]

Good work SBR. You are the only ones that are looking out for the player.

[scottyy11]

Should we move to books that already don't allow US players?

i.e Ladbrokes


if your not a American that is, seems these books will be extra safe?

[SBR_John]

Originally Posted by scottyy11

Should we move to books that already don't allow US players?

i.e Ladbrokes


if your not a American that is, seems these books will be extra safe?

They are extra safe they are just not extra good. If you are not a US citizen I would just stay in the A+ books that fit your style. Maybe a starting lineup of Pinny, CRIS, Greek. That's a pretty powerful 1-2-3 punch.

[Bill Dozer]

Originally Posted by greg66

Thank you for that comment. I play the exchange there. What is your opinion on Tradesports?

TS was already losing business due to an increase in fees. They have applied these new higher fees to already pending contracts and a lot of traders are feeling cheated. For some, it erases all profit they worked hard for. TradeSports also had some big blunders regarding poorly worded prediction markets.

Like John said about some others, normally we would not be concerned with the company as a whole. Players should take a wait and see approach. Some of their market makers are pulling out wanting to avoid having an investment tied up there.

[moses millsap]

Originally Posted by SBR_John

I would just stay in the A+ books that fit your style. Maybe a starting lineup of Pinny, CRIS, Greek.

I like the trio of Pinny, WSEX, Cascade.

[LineHunter]

John,

When will the new ratings be posted?

[Scorpion]

Originally Posted by SBR_John

Maybe a starting lineup of Pinny, CRIS, Greek. That's a pretty powerful 1-2-3 punch.

I agree. My top four are:
Pinny, CRIS, Greek, wsex